This situation has happened to a relative of mine.

Around 20 years ago, they allowed a friend to store a car in a shed on private land as a favour.

It doesn't appear to be anything valuable, rare or desirable. It is just an everyday car that was very common in the 1990s.

They eventually lost contact with said friend, and haven't heard from them in years. They now have no idea where they are or how they could contact them.

Where does that leave them legally for disposing of said car?

As far as I know, they can apply for a V5 in their name and the DVLA will attempt to contact the last keeper. However, even if that is issued, that does not mean they now legally own the car.

 

They can request the last keepers details from the DVSA as long as they have good reason.  Usually it's done for cars that have fled after causing damage.  But I think being abandoned for decades on their land should count.

As you say, they wouldn't 'own' the car just by getting a new V5.  So I wouldn't recommend that unless it turns out the previous owner has passed away without any surviving relatives.

52 minutes ago, AntonovAN12 said:

It doesn't appear to be anything valuable, rare or desirable. It is just an everyday car that was very common in the 1990s.

The very fact that it is 'everyday' could be valuable in itself. Many common cars are now rare as no consideration was given them at the time. If you're a fan of the TV show 'Bangers & Cash' you'll be surprised the amount that seemingly 'ordinary' cars now reach...

Thanks for the replies.

Similar cars that are running with current MOTs, but otherwise not restored seem to be listed for around £2000 on ebay.

That suggests to me that it would only be worth whatever someone would pay for it in its current state with the right paperwork.

You would have to spend a fair bit of money and effort to get it road worthy.

Have a quick look on Facebook etc for the owner, if nothing turns up just get it uplifted and scrapped.

 

Just to put us all out of our misery trying to guess what car it is, please let us know what it is! 😀

It's a 1989 Peugeot 205.

It's just a standard spec car and definitely not a GTI. As far as I can tell not worth much more than scrap value in its current state.

 

Doesn't need to be a GTi.  They also made some other cool versions such as the Rallye and the Roland Garros...and even the DTurbo!

From looking up the reg on the government site it is a 1360cc Petrol.

It looks like a plain model from what I have seen of it.

12 hours ago, AntonovAN12 said:

From looking up the reg on the government site it is a 1360cc Petrol.

It looks like a plain model from what I have seen of it.

The Roland Garros was 1360cc.  Came in a lovely green colour.

Obviously not a Rallye or DTurbo though.  Could be a GT or XS which were sort of midrange.

Cars were so light back then that the 1.4 petrol still managed 0-60 in about 10 seconds in a 205.  My first car was a 306 with the same engine, notorious for blowing headgaskets.

Write to the person, twice, at the last known address and inform them in the letter that if they do not remove their vehicle from your land within 28 days, you will take ownership of the vehicle and dispose of it as you see fit.

Send one letter to the owner's address, send the other in an envelope addressed to yourself and don't ever open it unless you get any come back, the postage date stamp will prove when you sent them.

Wait 28 days after you receive your copy back and get rid of it however you see fit, it becomes your property.

Another problem is that it is stood on wood blocks without wheels. It would need a set of wheels and tyres to be able to roll it out of the building.

The correct 13" steel wheels are quite expensive on ebay. Countless thousands of these must have been scrapped over the years.

On 8/11/2024 at 7:32 PM, AntonovAN12 said:

This situation has happened to a relative of mine.

Around 20 years ago, they allowed a friend to store a car in a shed on private land as a favour.

It doesn't appear to be anything valuable, rare or desirable. It is just an everyday car that was very common in the 1990s.

They eventually lost contact with said friend, and haven't heard from them in years. They now have no idea where they are or how they could contact them.

Where does that leave them legally for disposing of said car?

As far as I know, they can apply for a V5 in their name and the DVLA will attempt to contact the last keeper. However, even if that is issued, that does not mean they now legally own the car.

I suggest that you/they consult a lawyer for actual legal advice before taking any action to dispose of it. Lawyers not only know the law better than us common folk, but they have professional liability insurance in case they screw up and give you bad advice and you choose to sue them to recover financial damages.

Having done some research though, the legal term for looking after personal property for someone is bailment, or more specifically in this case gratuitous bailment since your relative is doing it for no benefit. If they no longer wish to continue with this arrangement, what with it having lasted so much longer than they probably ever imagined it would, the term 'involuntary bailment' may now apply. Bailment includes some degree of duty of care towards the property. If they just take it upon themself to dispose of the property then the owner is entitled to sue them for 'tort of conversion'. Being an indefinite agreement (no specific time limit agreed), the concept of the vehicle becoming abandoned property may simply not apply. Being gratuitous bailment they're entitled though to demand an end to the agreement at any time, though they may get into trouble if they're unreasonable, and this doesn't mean that they can just take it upon themself to immediately claim it to be theirs.

The applicable law I believe is the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977. I suggest that you try and read it.

Section 12 of the act (under the heading "uncollected goods") sets out provisions for a bailee (the person looking after the property; your relative) to sell the property under certain circumstances. As I understand it: Since this is a gratuitous bailment you thus have the right to demand it end at any time ("come and collect your damn stuff"). To do so you have to take reasonable steps to try to trace and contact the bailor (owner) so that you can serve notice upon them, which must be done in writing, and if posted, by registered/recorded post, of your wish to end the arrangement, and thus imposing the obligation on them to take back their property, and to notify them of any intention to otherwise sell their property if they don't (which should include an indication of when you intend to do so). If you fail to trace and contact them, and you're reasonably confident that the bailor is the true owner of the property, then you're entitled to sell it. However, it appears that if you sell the property, you are required to "adopt the best method of sale reasonably available in the circumstances", i.e. get the best price for it you reasonably can, and you then owe that money to the bailor (owner), minus any costs incurred in selling it. I.e. you don't get to just keep the money, you just trade owing the return of their item for owing the return of money. Should the bailor have died, their rights of ownership and claim to any money from a sale, would have passed on to the inheritors of their estate. Perhaps there's some other law that could let you eventually keep the money under certain circumstances, I don't know, I haven't gone into that in my research.

Importantly the act states that if you intend to exercise the right to sell the property then you must allow reasonable time after notifying them about your intentions to do so to allow them a reasonable opportunity for them to instead collect it. Bare in mind that vehicles of course are not cheap or easy to transport or find storage space for. A reasonable time for someone to take away a car could conceivably be quite lengthy if the person is struggling financially and really wants to keep it but can't afford to collect it and store it elsewhere, and should you have no reasonably urgent need to have it gone. Reasonableness is the key word here, in a hypothetical court case a judge is obviously going to be considering whether any demands or deadlines you imposed were fair/reasonable/necessary/etc given the detailed circumstances of all involved. For instance if your relative isn't going anywhere, has no urgent need to get it off their property, and the owner can't afford to move it right now and really wants to keep it, perhaps for sentimental reasons, it could be considered unreasonable to not just let it remain where it is until circumstances change.

In terms of tracing and contacting the owner. the act states that the last known address is considered a proper address in terms of attempting to contact them. So your relative may get away with simply sending a suitable letter to the last known address reminding their (former) friend about the car, asking them to please arrange to take it away, or transfer ownership, or that otherwise after [insert reasonable time frame here] they intend to sell it. However, you have to consider the hypothetical situation of sitting in court and the judge pondering on the point of whether or not you made a suitably reasonable effort to trace and contact the owner before you sold it. The DVLA may be able to help find them, and there also exist companies who specialise in doing such things. Simply writing a letter and posting it to the last known address may just be viewed as an insufficient lazy gesture in the eyes of a judge. Furthermore it's also worth noting that the act states "the last known address of the person", not "the last address known to the bailee"; so this could be interpreted as a need to try to trace the last address known to anyone. If this friend no longer lives at the address your relative last knew, the friend may have left the new owner their new address for purposes of forwarding stray mail, and investigating that possibility may prove fruitful in tracking them down. Again though reasonableness is the key here, you wouldn't necessarily be expected to 'spare no expense, exhausting all possible avenues', like paying a wad of money to a private investigator, just to return a relatively invaluable item.

If it gets to the point of actually selling it, normally the owner would fill in and send off parts of their V5C, along with your details and signature, and give you a portion of it. I guess in a situation like this where you can't get a hold of the owner and you're exercising the right to sell it on behalf of the owner, looking at this it seems you'd use the V62 form as though it were a vehicle simply without a V5C to make yourself the registered keeper and thus get a V5C with which you can then further transfer ownership.

(I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, just my best understanding of the law from my research, take it for what it is)

18 hours ago, DaveT70 said:

Write to the person, twice, at the last known address and inform them in the letter that if they do not remove their vehicle from your land within 28 days, you will take ownership of the vehicle and dispose of it as you see fit.

Send one letter to the owner's address, send the other in an envelope addressed to yourself and don't ever open it unless you get any come back, the postage date stamp will prove when you sent them.

Wait 28 days after you receive your copy back and get rid of it however you see fit, it becomes your property.

So that then👍

10 hours ago, AntonovAN12 said:

Another problem is that it is stood on wood blocks without wheels. It would need a set of wheels and tyres to be able to roll it out of the building.

The correct 13" steel wheels are quite expensive on ebay. Countless thousands of these must have been scrapped over the years.

Peugeots are 4x108 PCD.  Loads of wheels will fit from other Peugeot/Citroen cars, and even Mk1 Focus, Fiesta & Ka (albeit needing spacers for Ford wheels).

I'd defo' have a good look at the old Pug, parts are needed by restorers these days, you might not realise this but you could be sat on a little gold mine, don't just let a scrap man take it as they'll be rubbing their hands if it's mint inside or not rot.

Is it a two door or four door ? At a good guess every one is dying to see pics of it!

30 minutes ago, Ian Lanc said:

At a good guess every one is dying to see pics of it!

Definitely!

There is some other stuff stacked in front of it at the moment so it is not easy for them to get any decent photos.

It is a red two door car.

It will become tax and MOT exempt in April 2030. That is assuming the rules haven't changed by then. If it was mine I would be waiting to see what happens before doing anything with it.

6 year wait?  Patience is a virtue that some of us don't have!

With the way things are going, now seems like a bad time to spend any money on an older car.

Here in London you would also have to pay the ULEZ charge when you drive it.

 

12 minutes ago, AntonovAN12 said:

Here in London you would also have to pay the ULEZ charge when you drive it.

Well you Londoners obviously love Sadiq Khan. There were other candidates that wanted to drop ULEZ, one the instant he took office, but y'all seemed quite happy with ULEZ & congestion charges 😂

Life is for living, we're only here once, if someone wants to do up a retro classic and has the time & space now, they'll buy it regardless of the economic climate.  There's still plenty of UK outside of the ULEZ zone. 

(Also thought they wanted it gone, hence the sudden interest in contacting the owner?)

They have someone else who is interested, and asked me if I knew anything about the V5 issue. That is why I made the thread.

As far as I know, many urban areas in the UK have similar emission zones or intend to. The government clearly wants these older cars gone. I can't see that changing.