Looked at swapping my Fiesta St Line 1.0 2021 for a Toyota at a local Toyota dealership. 

They offered me £2k less than any of the online evaluations saying this was due to Ford and the wetbelt issue. I told them the car had a timing belt,although the oil pump belt was a wetbelt. 

Looks like I might have to take a hit when I get rid of the Fiesta. 

My car was registered 31st March 2021 and has 14,500mls,due to me working from home and being into motorbikes. They offered £10k 

It suspect it doesn't matter what the car actually has.  The market prices for all 1.0 EcoBoost Fiesta's will be hit by buyers concern around wetbelt issues.  That is a huge amount of depreciation though, even at £12k.  Were they around £20k new?

30 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

It suspect it doesn't matter what the car actually has.  The market prices for all 1.0 EcoBoost Fiesta's will be hit by buyers concern around wetbelt issues.  That is a huge amount of depreciation though, even at £12k.  Were they around £20k new?

Just short of £20k

I bought it on PCP at 0% and then paid the balance off. 

The wetbelt, whether it's the cambelt and /or oil pump wetbelt is a real pain

For reassurance, I took out a Ford Protect warranty last March. At £12 a month, it's not expensive but I anticipate it will soar when I look at renewing it in March 2025 

37 minutes ago, Rich650 said:

They offered £10k 

My local Toyota offered me over £12k for my 5 year old ST-L 2 years ago, as did Honda and Hyundai. Wet belt issues were pretty well known even then.

37 minutes ago, Rich650 said:

I told them the car had a timing belt 

Maybe that spooked them, unless it's a 100ps, 2021 should be a chain.

Eric, I told them the car had a oil pump wetbelt after they had told me the car had a wetbelt.  

People get confused. 

Older Fiestas have a wetbelt timing bet and oil pump wetbelt. The newer ones just had the oil pump wetbelt,as the timing belt is a chain. 

It can be a bit of a faff to shift it on separately, but you're not tied to trade your car in with the dealer you're buying from. Try WBAC and the like to see what they'll offer. 

Evans Halshaw do online valuations with no admin fee

Sell Your Car

 

 

1 hour ago, Rich650 said:

I told them the car had a oil pump wetbelt after they had told me the car had a wetbelt.  

People get confused. 

Lol, they sure do, you only have to read the numerous "belt or chain?" threads on here!

I must say, my local Toyota centre failed to impress me with their knowledge of their own products, let alone Ford. I had to explain to the salesperson that a Corolla hybrid still has a 12v battery and show him where it was!

Edit PS

@Rich650 Don't know which Toyota you're looking at, John, but the https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/ forums are very informative.

 

I emailed Ford customer service re my concerns with what the Toyota dealer said and px value offered 

Here's their response. 

"I am so sorry that my initial email did not fill you with confidence. I assumed that you were meaning the wetbelt, as this is a known issue to Ford. 

 

The oil pump drive belt has much less stress than the primary drive belt (Oil lubricated timing belt)
Carrying out the services at the correct interval and using correct oil specification and parts when completing can improve longevity of the engine.

If services are not carried out to the correct schedule, this can lead to oil degradation, be it from unburnt fuel or carbon deposits etc, which will change the oils chemical make-up.

This can then lead to degradation of internal engine components.

 

I would advise to gather a variation of quotes from other Dealers to ensure you are getting an informed and varied valuation of the vehicle in it's individual condition and not as a broad statement on this vehicle line"

 

They finished off by offering me a £100 Ford voucher.  

 

Umm... 

If you were offered more elsewhere let them buy it and do your deal on the Toyota without PX

47 minutes ago, DaveT70 said:

If you were offered more elsewhere let them buy it and do your deal on the Toyota without PX

That might be the way to go

I traded my 2014 fiesta 1.0 ecoboost titanium with 50000 miles on clock, running perfect in top condition in July 2023 for £5000 when spending £16000  on a used skoda ! At the time wasn't sure if I was being ripped off but as time and info has gone by I'm thinking it was quite a good price!!

The Fiesta's I read about the oil pump wetbelt failing are circa 10yrs old. Anyone seen issues with newer vehicles? 

Anyway, another email from Ford

"As your vehicle is equipped with a timing chain, as opposed to a wet belt, this puts considerably less pressure on the oil pump belt. Therefore, with regular servicing of the vehicle, we would expect the vehicle to last as per the recommended guidelines set out by Ford. 

Of course there are never any guarantees to this, as mechanical components can fail at any time unfortunately. But if you were to experience a vehicle failure, relating to a manufacturing defect, Ford would try to offer assistance where possible, and you can come directly back to me, where I would endeavour to do everything I possibly could, to get you the best result possible"

 

 

It's usually the timing belt that fails at around 10 years old on manuals if they've only done low mileage by then.  There was a faulty tensioner fitted to the automatic versions which can break the oil pump belt regardless of age.  But the oil pump belt failures on manuals are more common on the newer ones from what I've seen so far.  

It may just be an unconscious bias but I feel like I've seen more failures from around 2018 than any other year.  (Chain engine was fitted to Focus but not Fiesta in 2018).  I suspect that it's because they missed their first service during covid and sat with acidic oil ripping through the belt from a very young age.  Subsequent oil changes slow the rate of belt degradation, but there's nothing that can stop it once it's started.

25 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

It may just be an unconscious bias but I feel like I've seen more failures from around 2018 than any other year.  (Chain engine was fitted to Focus but not Fiesta in 2018).  I suspect that it's because they missed their first service during covid and sat with acidic oil ripping through the belt from a very young age.  Subsequent oil changes slow the rate of belt degradation, but there's nothing that can stop it once it's started.

I was wondering about this. As you know I just bought one of the last (chain + wet oil pump belt) Mk8.5 Fiesta ST-3s. Mine's a 73-plate because it took a couple of months to register (it was still 23 reg when the Fiesta stopped production), but there are 24-plates out there. They must have sat for at least 8 months after manufacture before being registered. That means their first service will be after 20 months which doesn't sound ideal.

16 minutes ago, TimST3 said:

I was wondering about this. As you know I just bought one of the last (chain + wet oil pump belt) Mk8.5 Fiesta ST-3s. Mine's a 73-plate because it took a couple of months to register (it was still 23 reg when the Fiesta stopped production), but there are 24-plates out there. They must have sat for at least 8 months after manufacture before being registered. That means their first service will be after 20 months which doesn't sound ideal.

My worst was BV10 KLE registered new March 2010 built Feb 2009. But I got a massive discount, you did in those days

24 minutes ago, TimST3 said:

I was wondering about this. As you know I just bought one of the last (chain + wet oil pump belt) Mk8.5 Fiesta ST-3s. Mine's a 73-plate because it took a couple of months to register (it was still 23 reg when the Fiesta stopped production), but there are 24-plates out there. They must have sat for at least 8 months after manufacture before being registered. That means their first service will be after 20 months which doesn't sound ideal.

So far, I haven't seen a single oil pump belt failure on the 1.5 at all.  I am not sure whether they use exactly the same oil pump belt as the chain driven 1.0.

Clean oil isn't a problem though.  That is what the belt is designed to run in, and will do happily for thousands of miles under lab conditions.  Oil only becomes acidic as it gets contaminated with damp from the air, exhaust gasses and raw fuel blowby from short/cold runs.  Admittedly there will be a few short, cold runs when shunting a new car from the factory to the compound, but personally I don't think that is enough to be of much concern.

It is cars that were driven for a while, degrading the oil normally over the first 12-18 months, but then got parked up for months at a time during lockdowns and had to wait extra months for a service slot, that will be affected the most by oil degradation.

1 minute ago, TomsFocus said:

So far, I haven't seen a single oil pump belt failure on the 1.5 at all.  I am not sure whether they use exactly the same oil pump belt as the chain driven 1.0.

That's very reassuring, although they did only change to an oil pump belt halfway through the Mk8 didn't they? I read somewhere that Ford had changed belt material in the later cars too. Is that right?

1 minute ago, TomsFocus said:

Clean oil isn't a problem though.  That is what the belt is designed to run in, and will do happily for thousands of miles under lab conditions.  Oil only becomes acidic as it gets contaminated with damp from the air, exhaust gasses and raw fuel blowby from short/cold runs.  Admittedly there will be a few short, cold runs when shunting a new car from the factory to the compound, but personally I don't think that is enough to be of much concern.

It is cars that were driven for a while, degrading the oil normally over the first 12-18 months, but then got parked up for months at a time during lockdowns and had to wait extra months for a service slot, that will be affected the most by oil degradation.

Gotcha 

45 minutes ago, TimST3 said:

That's very reassuring, although they did only change to an oil pump belt halfway through the Mk8 didn't they?

I've seen some slight differences in exact date, but the change to belt oil pump on the 1.5 ST was around February 2019. The only failure I've seen reported with photographic evidence was, ironically, one of the early gear driven pumps where the gear itself had failed. The gear was a steel inner and outer with a rubber(?) bush connecting the two, not a solid steel gear as one might expect.

I thought that these days the valuations were all computerised and any foibles of individual models were automatically taken into account.

However, when I part-exed my Ford car last year I got two different valuations from different branches of the same Ford dealership. £1200 from one and £1700 from the other. WBAC offered £1400 (having actually seen the car). I think some negotiators will just try it on and offer you less than what their computer says if they think you will bite.

14 hours ago, alanfp said:

I think some negotiators will just try it on and offer you less than what their computer says if they think you will bite.

They still seem to play the game on p/ex. Sometimes it's the other way round - many people don't like to hear their p/ex is not worth what they think, so the salesperson inflates that at the expense of discounting the new car. It's important to remember the nett "cost to change" is what counts.

Used car prices are exorbitant 

Toyota wanted £15k for a 2021 Yaris with the same mileage as my St Line 2021, and offered me £10k

Covid and the EV sham have allowed dealers to rip people off more than ever.