Hello in the morning it starts fine when im going to leave from work at 14:00 it starts with the red light of battery and oil light up, the rpm is stuck to zero the engine running but not good, All this for 3-4 second's then all going back to normal like it never happened! This happening every day for a week, battery is fine checked , not error codes in obd all clear! Anyone some help ?? Tdci 1.4 2010 

Don't understand "RPM zero" bit if engine is running (800 RPM?)

Difficult starting which resolves after a few seconds, to me smacks of glow plugs (once cylinder gets some heat in it, problem will go away)?
Test power to glow plugs and resistance of each?

But but, there's always the battery to consider in this weather, despite whatever check has been done!

5 minutes ago, Shearers said:

Don't understand "RPM zero" bit if engine is running (800 RPM?)

Difficult starting which resolves after a few seconds, to me smacks of glow plugs (once cylinder gets some heat in it, problem will go away)?
Test power to glow plugs and resistance of each?

But but, there's always the battery to consider in this weather, despite whatever check has been done!

The rpm in instrument cluster stucks in zero but the engine running for this 3-4 seconds after that the rpm goes to normal, if it was the glow plugs why in the morning start up normal with no problem?? 

1 hour ago, Vagelis said:

The rpm in instrument cluster stucks in zero but the engine running for this 3-4 seconds after that the rpm goes to normal, if it was the glow plugs why in the morning start up normal with no problem??

I said I didn't understand, I thought the engine started but ran rough for the 3-4 seconds on a first start (meaning glow plugs etc?) with an ADDITIONAL fault that the rev counter stayed at zero which I didn't understand.
 

You seem to be saying that on the first start in the morning is perfect (that took a bit of reading a few times?)

BUT when leaving work at 2 PM

You start the engine

The rev counter stays at zero for 3-4 seconds

During that time,  the engine runs "but not good"   - you don't explain that? Is it a normal idle speed, lower or higher, rough or smooth or what - remember this is long distance diagnosis - always an issue!!!

This only happens on the first start at 2 PM then for the start and rest of the day it runs and starts perfectly?

My only other guess and it is a guess that after the drive to work, there is an air leak causing rough (?) running until the fuel supply is maintained?

Personally, I need a better explanation so I can understand and if that's not possible or you feel I'm missing the points, I'll retire and let someone else have a go?
 

2 hours ago, Shearers said:

I said I didn't understand, I thought the engine started but ran rough for the 3-4 seconds on a first start (meaning glow plugs etc?) with an ADDITIONAL fault that the rev counter stayed at zero which I didn't understand.
 

You seem to be saying that on the first start in the morning is perfect (that took a bit of reading a few times?)

BUT when leaving work at 2 PM

You start the engine

The rev counter stays at zero for 3-4 seconds

During that time,  the engine runs "but not good"   - you don't explain that? Is it a normal idle speed, lower or higher, rough or smooth or what - remember this is long distance diagnosis - always an issue!!!

This only happens on the first start at 2 PM then for the start and rest of the day it runs and starts perfectly?

My only other guess and it is a guess that after the drive to work, there is an air leak causing rough (?) running until the fuel supply is maintained?

Personally, I need a better explanation so I can understand and if that's not possible or you feel I'm missing the points, I'll retire and let someone else have a go?
 

Its running rough for this 3-4 seconds it's normal idle, 

Yes the rest of the day it starts perfectly and run.

I have a video of this can i send to you , you have Facebook? Thank you for your help 

This is most likely a fault with the PCM or engine wiring loom.

The engine runs rough because the PCM isn't getting a crank signal, which is why it shows 0 RPM on the dash and doesn't know how much fuel it should be injecting.

The oil and battery lights are on because the car thinks the engine isn't running.

I can't explain why this is only happening at 2pm though.

@TomsFocus that appears to explain the OP's issue exactly, apart, as you say, for the timing.
Does that mean the crank sensor would be the first sensor/wiring to look at and then the camshaft one and it's associated wiring, and then, the PCM internally if all the wiring is sound or...?

I'm learning a lot (thanks) as I believe the PCM checks for cam/crank correlation but if it can't get it then it wont start whilst if it fails during running, it can continue to run until it is stopped and if the fault remains, it won't start again? Therefore I don't quite understand how it can start without that correlation unless it's weak or intermittent.
Nothing yet explains the 14:00 spookiness though  -would be good if @Vagelis can get that checked and come back (with it fixed)!

Edit: Are there any fault codes and can Forscan be used to verify crank, cam and any other relevant sensors?

4 hours ago, Shearers said:

@TomsFocus that appears to explain the OP's issue exactly, apart, as you say, for the timing.
Does that mean the crank sensor would be the first sensor/wiring to look at and then the camshaft one and it's associated wiring, and then, the PCM internally if all the wiring is sound or...?

I'm learning a lot (thanks) as I believe the PCM checks for cam/crank correlation but if it can't get it then it wont start whilst if it fails during running, it can continue to run until it is stopped and if the fault remains, it won't start again? Therefore I don't quite understand how it can start without that correlation unless it's weak or intermittent.
Nothing yet explains the 14:00 spookiness though  -would be good if @Vagelis can get that checked and come back (with it fixed)!

Edit: Are there any fault codes and can Forscan be used to verify crank, cam and any other relevant sensors?

Personally I don't think it's the sensor itself.  They're very basic so would expect that to either work or not work.  I suspect a poor wiring connection somewhere, possibly caused by water or oil ingress in a plug.  Maybe a slightly loose connector.  Small chance of it being a pin in the PCM connector.

It is true that generally the PCM needs a crank signal to see approx 200rpm before it'll fire the injectors.  But there are a few different PCM manufacturers and it's possible that they don't all have that startup requirement.  

I don't think it'll be the cam sensor, they aren't usually used for RPM, though I'm not ruling it out.

Forscan would show fault codes for cam and/or crank sensors as well as the sync between them.  Checking the RPM through OBD live data would also confirm that it's definitely a fault on the PCM side, rather than being on the gauge side.  I suspect the OP doesn't have the necessary diags so there is a bit of guesswork with this one at the moment.

 

The only thing I would add is that if the Crankshaft Sensor arrangement is not giving any signal when the Engine is turning then there may not be a Fault Code because the PCM  does not know that the Engine is turning.

So the joint advice to @Vagelis is to read any fault codes and check the complete wiring/plugs/sensors associated with any that show up, likely crankshaft and camshaft initially?
Lets hope something can be found and reported back...

Fault codes it doesn't have we scan it.

Glow plugs changed to new still the problem remains.

I don't known what to do 😞 

The next step is to change the sensors you guys saying to see if is that, 

 

I may be wrong but suggest that "we" are not saying change the sensors (I'm not?), we are saying try to look at any live data from the sensors first (Forscan)?
If I'm right, the next step is ideally to verify any sensor outputs/power/ground connections at the sensors and then check that the same readings are found at the PCM end of the wiring. The consensus  above is pointing towards a wiring fault so that must be ruled out first as wiring faults at 14 years old are increasingly likely?
If you can't do that or get someone to do it then changing sensors may be the only way but it rapidly becomes expensive and may not find or fix the fault because if you have a wiring fault, no amount of sensor changing will fix it and will just further confuse?

I have just replaced the main battery supply lug as it had got hot enough to melt the insulation and would have let us down at some stage (2011)!

3 hours ago, Vagelis said:

Fault codes it doesn't have we scan it.

Has it been to a Ford garage?  The general garages don't have the right software to pick up Ford fault codes.

On 12/3/2024 at 4:08 PM, Vagelis said:

Fault codes it doesn't have we scan it.

Glow plugs changed to new still the problem remains.

I don't known what to do 😞 

The next step is to change the sensors you guys saying to see if is that, 

 

Don’t suppose when you changed your plugs one was a different size by any chance. I’ve just took mine out an 3 are the same size an 1 is smaller 

20 minutes ago, Underwatermakem said:

I’ve just took mine out an 3 are the same size an 1 is smaller 

Oh dear !!!

They should all be the same. So the question is which size is correct ?

Is one actually smaller, or has the tip snapped off?  Be absolutely sure there isn't a tip sat on the piston before you start the engine again.

Hi

 I was wondering if you got the problem sorted as I’m having similar issues.

thanks

10 hours ago, Jammboo said:

 I was wondering if you got the problem sorted as I’m having similar issues.

Welcome!
Have you followed the suggestions above (wiring, fault codes, live data Forscan etc) to investigate the issues given by various contributors (very often, folks never come back one way or the other but hopefully you will!)

@Jammboo, vying for the next OPW slot!