Hello everyone , this is my first post so i hope im doing things correctly. I was driving home earlier today when i stopped at a set of lights and sat with my clutch down in first gear with my foot on the brake pedal. i usually do this instead of using my handbrake. my car started to shudder and shake without me releasing my clutch so i tried (with the clutch fully pressed down) to take my car out of first and it was as if the gear was fully seized and stuck, i then took my foot off the clutch to see if it would change anything and the clutch was fully stuck to the ground. i gave it a few taps before it shot back up and stalled the car. after starting my car back up i managed to drive without it happening again, however now my clutch feels as if its sticky or getting stiff halfway released but it never caused any issues. i had roughly the same issues back in may then my car broke down. i got it fixed and the garage told me it was a gear linkage problem which didn’t feel right. i changed the clutch before hand as i thought that would be the issue but my “broken” clutch was a new one. i think im having the same issue but i doubt it is the clutch as this one is only 5 months old. if anyone has had the same issue then i would be extremely appreciative to hear how they managed to get it fixed and if they know what the issues root is. 

thank you very much :)

This is a clutch fault.  But more likely the hydraulics, not the plates.  Assuming your new clutch came with a new slave cylinder, then it's probably the master cylinder at fault. 

To prevent the seals failing again quickly on the new one, it's best practice to use handbrake & neutral when waiting at traffic lights.

To add to @TomsFocus post. (I'll preface this by saying, I do not know how old you are or when you passed your test) Although you are taught to have the car in 1st gear with the clutch depressed when stopped at traffic lights or in stop start traffic in order to be able to pass your driving test, it's best to not do this and instead (unless you know that it will be a very short period stop) put it in neutral and handbrake on as even when the clutch pedal is pressed fully down, the clutch disk is still partially engaged, but very minimally so you will still be putting wear and heat into your clutch and the clutch master cylinder. The seals are not designed for very long periods of high pressure loading and they will fatigue over time.

And you'll wear out your Release Bearing prematurely and/or the extra heat that it generates will cause other damage, which is probably what happened.

I can't believe people are taught to sit stationary with first gear engaged other than for a few seconds😨,that and some of the other silly ideas that the advanced motorist beggar belief.

24 minutes ago, Tizer said:

And you'll wear out your Release Bearing prematurely and/or the extra heat that it generates will cause other damage, which is probably what happened.

I can't believe people are taught to sit stationary with first gear engaged other than for a few seconds😨,that and some of the other silly ideas that the advanced motorist beggar belief.

I know it was certainly the case when I learnt and passed my test back in 2018 that it was the case and I remember talking about it to my instructor who justified it by saying that it was for making sure you were ready to set off when the traffic resumed moving. And it was apparently dvsa standard practice for teaching new drivers.

22 minutes ago, Tizer said:

I can't believe people are taught to sit stationary with first gear engaged other than for a few seconds😨,that and some of the other silly ideas that the advanced motorist beggar belief.

That was definitely a very big no-no when I learned to drive (mind, that was just after the red flag law was abolished!😀)

I trust things are different now, but I fell out with the IAM over some of the stuff they taught. One thing was not to change gear while braking, in case the car pulled to one side. This was, I believe, based on the pre-WW2 police Roadcraft manual, when many cars still had cable operated brakes which were difficult to get in perfect balance.

I learned in a Mk 1 BMC 1100 which had a "crash" first (the Mk 2 got full synchro) so I was taught to double de-clutch. As 2 of my first 3 cars also had no synchro on first, this was pretty useful.

11 minutes ago, Neb_engineer said:

I know it was certainly the case when I learnt and passed my test back in 2018 that it was the case and I remember talking about it to my instructor who justified it by saying that it was for making sure you were ready to set off when the traffic resumed moving. And it was apparently dvsa standard practice for teaching new drivers.

And the same Instructor probably told you to press the Button in  when pulling up the Handbrake even though every car manufacturer tells you not to do that because that's how Handbrakes are designed.

2 minutes ago, Tizer said:

And the same Instructor probably told you to press the Button in when pulling up the handbrake.

Yes, he most certainly did tell me not to "ride the ratchet". I'm sure it was another test taboo back then. Probably not much of an issue now the manual handbrake is joining the manual gearbox in the pages of history.

Thanks everyone , i only passed my test in February and was taught to keep my clutch down and in first at lights to make sure you’re ready to move off when traffic goes infront, il start getting used to going neutral with the handbrake and hopefully that solves the issues i’m facing, i had no idea that it would cause issues sitting in first with the clutch down and i am a bit frustrated that it’s what i was taught.

thanks again everyone , all the best

10 hours ago, Neb_engineer said:

I know it was certainly the case when I learnt and passed my test back in 2018 that it was the case and I remember talking about it to my instructor who justified it by saying that it was for making sure you were ready to set off when the traffic resumed moving. And it was apparently dvsa standard practice for teaching new drivers.

I had no idea that's how people were being taught nowadays.  I'm considered one of the 'young ones' on here and would not have got away with that when I was learning, let alone being taught to do it!

Not that it'll matter soon when everyone's driving EV anyway.  No wear at all when stationary with the brake pressed in those.  

3 hours ago, Charlie Murray said:

taught to keep my clutch down and in first at lights to make sure you’re ready to move off when traffic goes infront

Amazingly(!) I still remember that feeling that everyone's watching you and you don't want to hold people up. Obviously you don't need to slip into neutral for every momentary pause in a "stop/go" situation, knowing when to do so is something that comes with experience and confidence.

It's good you started with manual even though it's a dying art now - I think you'll still ultimately be a better driver even when you move on to an auto or EV. 

It's getting difficult to find instructors who teach in manuals it seems. I was doing some research locally and the majority seem to teach in autos.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

It's getting difficult to find instructors who teach in manuals it seems. I was doing some research locally and the majority seem to teach in autos.

Funnily different experience from what I have found in the area my girlfriend lives as she is learning to drive and unfortunately manual is just too much for her.

39 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Amazingly(!) I still remember that feeling that everyone's watching you and you don't want to hold people up.

I didn't realise other people lost that feeling over time.  That certainly explains a lot of the driving I see around here!  

46 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Amazingly(!) I still remember that feeling that everyone's watching you and you don't want to hold people up. Obviously you don't need to slip into neutral for every momentary pause in a "stop/go" situation, knowing when to do so is something that comes with experience and confidence.

It's good you started with manual even though it's a dying art now - I think you'll still ultimately be a better driver even when you move on to an auto or EV. 

It's getting difficult to find instructors who teach in manuals it seems. I was doing some research locally and the majority seem to teach in autos.

 

 

its a gut wrenching feeling knowing everyone’s staring whilst you’re trying to find your bite and the lights are green , hence why we were told to sit in first so it’s quicker off the line. they must’ve forgot to add the bit where it can damage your car in the meantime.

it’s also hard to watch the world turning to auto and electric, couldn’t live with myself knowing i couldn’t drive manual lol. 

1 hour ago, Charlie Murray said:

everyone’s staring whilst whilst you’re trying to find your bite

It's a lot easier these days with fuel injection, electronic engine management, etc. I find in most modern cars all you need to do when crawling in stop/go traffic is raise the clutch slowly and the electronics do the rest to get you moving. 

In the old days you really did have to get the bite point right. This comes home watching the start of the classic class in rallies - cars with big carbs, hot cams, etc - if they get it right, they're off like a rocket, get it wrong, they just stall (and everyone's staring!😀). 

When I trained as a driving instructor about 15 years ago I was amazed at some of the bad habits we were supposed to teach learners, sitting in gear at the lights with the clutch depressed was one of them along with the 12 o'clock rule at roundabouts (right hand lane if your exit is at more than 12 o'clock, otherwise left hand lane), how about reading the signs and lane markings instead and following the guidance in the highway code?

Learning to pass a driving test should just be the first stage of your driving journey, with your driving improving as your experience grows. Unfortunately many people continue to drive following the DVSA simplified guidance for learners and then develop bad habits which make their driving worse over time.

It would be a good thing if everyone took some advanced driver instruction to improve their driving standard as their experience grows.

1 minute ago, pcaouolte said:

When I trained as a driving instructor about 15 years ago I was amazed at some of the bad habits we were supposed to teach learners,

I often wonder after witnessing yet another example of poor driving, why do so many people forget what they were taught when learning. From this thread it seems the problem is that they do remember what they are taught!

4 minutes ago, pcaouolte said:

It would be a good thing if everyone took some advanced driver instruction to improve their driving standard as their experience grows.

Fully agree with that. I've had training through work while a company car driver, plus stuff on my own account - off road and high speed track riding/driving on 2/4 wheels, skid training, etc. It all helps and is usually good fun as well.

What I should  have had is more parking training - as my wife will confirm I'm still rubbish at that!😀

Traffic Lights go from red to red and amber for a second or two before going to green, there is plenty of time when at the red and amber stage to put the car in gear.

Another mechanically completely wrong thing that the so called advance motorists tell people to do is to miss out gears when changing up. For example maybe going from second to fourth or fifth. I've been a passenger in cars when the driver has done this and it was excruciating when the car laboured and almost shook itself to bits at every gear change.

It is perfectly possible to miss out gears when changing up, if done correctly this tends to be part of making good progress. The car will accelerate faster in a lower gear when performing an overtake for example. Imagine an overtake performed in 4th gear whilst accelerating quickly in that gear up to the national speed limit, there would be no need to go from 4th to 5th to 6th when your vehicle has reached the national speed limit, it would be sensible to move directly from 4th to 6th.

There is a considerable amount of overlap in appropriate gear ratios, perhaps overtaking a tractor in 2nd gear would mean that when you were in front of it 4th gear would be appropriate for your new road speed. You might then continue to accelerate quickly to a speed where 6th gear was appropriate. Missing out 3rd and 5th gears in those circumstances would not cause the car to labour or shake, it would result in higher revs being used in the lower gears and a potentially quicker, safer, overtake.

In 2008 I passed my test and was taught to leave it in neutral with handbrake on. I never knew some instructors taught people without handbrake and in first gear. This is the first time I've heard about it. 

25 minutes ago, pcaouolte said:

It is perfectly possible to miss out gears when changing up, if done correctly this tends to be part of making good progress. The car will accelerate faster in a lower gear when performing an overtake for example. Imagine an overtake performed in 4th gear whilst accelerating quickly in that gear up to the national speed limit, there would be no need to go from 4th to 5th to 6th when your vehicle has reached the national speed limit, it would be sensible to move directly from 4th to 6th.

There is a considerable amount of overlap in appropriate gear ratios, perhaps overtaking a tractor in 2nd gear would mean that when you were in front of it 4th gear would be appropriate for your new road speed. You might then continue to accelerate quickly to a speed where 6th gear was appropriate. Missing out 3rd and 5th gears in those circumstances would not cause the car to labour or shake, it would result in higher revs being used in the lower gears and a potentially quicker, safer, overtake.

There is nothing wrong with what you describe but I've been in cars at town speeds where you shouldn't be past third gear and some people do what I described earlier, and the cars have been laboured badly. 

Taking things back to first principles, a Gearbox has cleverly spaced ratios for a reason. 

 

6 hours ago, Tizer said:

There is nothing wrong with what you describe but I've been in cars at town speeds where you shouldn't be past third gear and some people do what I described earlier, and the cars have been laboured badly. 

I'm a "block changer" myself, where appropriate. For example, this morning I passed a dawdler in the Dales. I was doing 60 in 4th after the manoeuvre and went straight to 6th (and came off the gas, of course). 

As Paul says, the key is "if done correctly", which those people obviously don't. I stick to 3rd in town. I think those shift lights have a lot to answer for in getting people to change up far too early.

I'm not sure that gear ratios are that cleverly spaced these days, though. At one time, in a "sporty" car maximum speed was generally achieved at the red line in top gear. Now cars are massively overgeared (in my opinion) for reasons of economy and emissions. If I was able to red line the Fiesta in top, I'd be doing almost 170.