Hello, I wonder if someone has come across this problem before. (I have posted this in the general conversation forum but not sure if that one, or this is the correct one)

At the moment my Engine Management light is on and stays on. Car runs absolutely fine no problem or noises or loss of power. However, under a set of parameters the 'Engine Service Now' warning comes up. Engine still runs fine but Turbo cuts out. If i stop turn off the ignition and turn on again that Engine Service Now warning goes off (but MIL stays on). The only difference to the ride i notice between the ESN being off or on is that the turbo doesn't kick in when the light in on. In every other respect it runs like normal.

However, it doesn't happen randomly and I can almost predict when the ESN message comes up. If i take my foot off the accelerator for more than a couple of seconds then shortly the message pops up. If i cruise, take engine out of gear and take foot OFF accelerator the message will NOT come up. Likewise, the message wont come up when cruise control is on unless i go down a medium to steep hill. Bizarrely the light has only ever come on when my foot HASN'T been on the accelerator.

I've taken it to a couple of garages and no-one can see to work out what it is. I took it to the local official Ford dealer (at £180 an hour!) who said its most likely to be a stretched timing belt (the belt was a couple of months old at the time) but this cannot be correct as if it had then timing would be all over the place. Even I know that a stretched timing belt would be noticeable immediately. Another garage replaced the MAS which made no difference (although that was not a genuine part. I asked them if they fitted a genuine one whether it would make a difference and they said no). One thing they did mention is that it appears to be the air intake system which is causing the issue. The figures being reported by the sensor are slightly higher than the car expects but its not by much at all.

So, the car itself is running really nicely still, no loss of power (when ESN light isn't on) there are no knocks, misfires, rough driving or anyone.

I'm baffled as to where to go from here. I want to keep the car and I want to solve this problem. I have to take the car for its MOT in May and know it would fail with the MIL light on (though I guess OBD could remove it) but I want to get to the bottom of it.

Has anyone come across an issue like this and what it could possibly be?

many thanks for your help.

Welcome!
You seem to becoming a victim of garages a) Guessing (at your potential cost) b) Replacing parts that they "think" may cause the problem. Plus they make statements "air intake system" without any rhyme or reason or suggestions to test.
My "Guess" (which you are free to ignore or use someone else's response on here) is to read the Ford codes (you will hopefully see Forscan recommended all over here) I'm not going to give any further info as you can come back if necessary. Cost maybe £40ish plus use of your laptop or phone (if that app is on sale )
The codes are the first step to point to a general area that MAY be the suspect, then live data from various (all) sensors that may be relevant or giving results that make you doubt your sanity.
On 2017 you may not yet be in the wiring problem phase of its life but, who knows without some real diagnosis and data.
You obviously know the basic conditions under which the warning lights appear but its what is going on to trigger them that is the next step?
From my interpretation of your post it is happening on the overrun so all conditions around that are suspect.
Turbo "cuts out" is a bit of a misnomer it may either be in limp mode that you don't know or there is a fault causing lack or excessive boost?
Codes must be read when light is on as they can disappear between run cycles.

Don't forget I'm a random guy on a forum just trying to help!

Timing belts don't stretch. So that is a concerning lack of understanding from a Ford dealership.

I would guess the fault code here is 'MAF in range but higher than expected'. On this engine that is usually caused by the EGR pipe clogging up. That means less air is taken through the EGR so more has to come from outside through the MAF.

However I would agree with above that reading your own fault codes with Forscan would be the best next step.

5 hours ago, Shearers said:

Welcome!
You seem to becoming a victim of garages a) Guessing (at your potential cost) b) Replacing parts that they "think" may cause the problem. Plus they make statements "air intake system" without any rhyme or reason or suggestions to test.
My "Guess" (which you are free to ignore or use someone else's response on here) is to read the Ford codes (you will hopefully see Forscan recommended all over here) I'm not going to give any further info as you can come back if necessary. Cost maybe £40ish plus use of your laptop or phone (if that app is on sale )
The codes are the first step to point to a general area that MAY be the suspect, then live data from various (all) sensors that may be relevant or giving results that make you doubt your sanity.
On 2017 you may not yet be in the wiring problem phase of its life but, who knows without some real diagnosis and data.
You obviously know the basic conditions under which the warning lights appear but its what is going on to trigger them that is the next step?
From my interpretation of your post it is happening on the overrun so all conditions around that are suspect.
Turbo "cuts out" is a bit of a misnomer it may either be in limp mode that you don't know or there is a fault causing lack or excessive boost?
Codes must be read when light is on as they can disappear between run cycles.

Don't forget I'm a random guy on a forum just trying to help!

Thank you thats really helpful! Yes, I've taken it to 3 different garages. One said the turbo is broke and I need to get a new one. The second said that is nonsense and after replacing the MAF and suggesting a genuine one they don't know what it is. The 3rd, the official dealer said the timing belt could have stretched and would cost 2k + to get it replaced. I'm thick when it comes to cars but even I know it wouldn't be the timing belt.

When the turbo kicks off maybe it is a limp mode, I can still get up to good speeds such as 70mph on a motorway, it just takes a little longer to get to that speed. And as mentioned the Engine service Now warning only ever comes up when i take the foot off the accelerator. You would have thought it was the other way around.

I do have an device i can plug into the computer and using OBD (as an app on my phone) it does report the air intake system. Will it be as accurate as Forscan or am i best buying that product? Could it be that if the garages are using their own computer and now the official Forscan they are unable to pick up the true issue?

I love the car and it drives so well and I just want to get it sorted! Thanks again for your reply, i do appreicate it and found it really helpful.

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Timing belts don't stretch. So that is a concerning lack of understanding from a Ford dealership.

I would guess the fault code here is 'MAF in range but higher than expected'. On this engine that is usually caused by the EGR pipe clogging up. That means less air is taken through the EGR so more has to come from outside through the MAF.

However I would agree with above that reading your own fault codes with Forscan would be the best next step.

Thanks Tom. i was so baffled when the official Ford dealer said that. Even someone stupid as me when it comes to cars knows that its not going to be that. Soon as you turn the engine on it would be obvious. The 2nd garage I took it to told me i needed a new turbo! The 3rd one said that was nonsense and the turbo looks just fine! I'm just a little fed up that I'm being told different things by 3 different garages!

Interesting you mention about the 'MAF in range but higher than expected'. The 2nd garage i took it to said something like that but no mention or suggestion about the EGR pipe. Could that cause the issue whereby the error will only come up when the foot is not on the accelerator?

Also about forscan, I currently have an adaptor i can plug into the car and an app on my phone (OBR) that reads codes. would that work or will Forscan pick up codes or have different codes that a more generic one wouldnt do?

Thanks again for your help Tom, your comment was really helpful !

9 hours ago, Spock72 said:

Also about forscan, I currently have an adaptor i can plug into the car and an app on my phone (OBR) that reads codes. would that work or will Forscan pick up codes or have different codes that a more generic one wouldnt do?

That app will only read generic OBD2 codes. Those are the ones triggered when the EML comes up and they are the same for every car.

In addition to those, Forscan also reads the Ford specific codes triggered when the Engine Service Now warning comes up. Forscan is not official Ford software, but is very close in terms of functionality.

You will most likely need a different adapter to use Forscan. The Forscan website shows recommended adapters. There is currently some confusion around Android app downloads and use.

Download FORScan

As Tom says, get your laptop set up with FORScan and the correct lead, not a cheap one, use V-Linker or OBDLink-EX.

Keep your laptop in the boot, all set up and ready to go, and the next time the fault comes on, pull over, DO NOT SWITCH OFF THE ENGINE, connect to FORScan and read the DTCs.

That should give you a good idea, whilst the fault is live, of what is going on and what to start looking at to fix it.

I'm going with clogged/sticking EGR valve though, but we'll see

Thanks Dave. I will have a look for one this weekend. All the garages have been telling me I should just ditch the car and get a new one but I do like my Focus. Even with this issue it runs beautifully, I like having the satnav, cruise control, etc. Its nice to drive and I want to sort it if at all possible!

I've actually just searched for FORscan and when i try go to the site it says the site cannot be reached! Very strange. I hope its a temporary fault.

Just tried this and seems fine
Edit: the download is free, you don't need the licence for reading and if you can get the App, last price was $11 ish. (Is the iOS available?):
https://forscan.org/home.html

I use:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BLH3ZTG1

And this for Android and laptop with Bluetooth:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08H82WC8L

Assume this is the EX (why can't all of this be a sticky?):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/OBDLINK-EX-FORScan-OBD-Adapter/dp/B081VQVD3F

Thanks for that Shearers, I'm going to have to try it at home. I cannot access the site from my office and i've tried a number of different browsers! Could be antivirus is a little too strict. Ill take a look at those links and let you know how it goes.

working for me

https://forscan.org/download.html

Yes, you only need to access it from the machine you're going to install it on.

Make sure you do the first connect and profile save whilst laptop is connected to internet

Forscan is linked to Russia which may explain why it's blocked on a work computer.

Well an update on the car. I called out an electrical engineer who came out to look at it and advised it appeared to be either the turbo (Which was leaking oil) or the EGR. A previous garage had said the turbo needed replacing so it wasn't unexpected. After getting 4 quotes (£1200, 1700, and 2 around £2400) The electrician checked out the price with a mobile mechanic he works with. Came up as £730 all in! So, I went with that.

He came down yesterday, put a brand new turbo in, full oil and filter change, cleaned out the EGR. So all done.

However..... The message is STILL coming up!! I plugged the computer in and its error P1102 powertrain again. Really not sure what to do now. Do I call the engineer out again to take a 2nd look or what? I'm stumped and a little frustrated now.

An electrical engineer? Do you mean an auto electrician?

I don't see why a general electrical engineer would be much use here, especially when it seems they've diagnosed mechanical faults.

As the same problem is still present then yes you should get one or both back asap.

Hi Tom, sorry yes, it was an auto electrician. He looked at the car and said it was the Turbo or EGR so he recommended getting a new turbo (it was leaking a bit of oil so i' wasnt surprised). I did that and the mechanice cleaned out the EGR however the 'service engine' light still comes up! Really fed up now and can't understand why someone can't get to the bottom of it.

40 minutes ago, Spock72 said:

Hi Tom, sorry yes, it was an auto electrician. He looked at the car and said it was the Turbo or EGR so he recommended getting a new turbo (it was leaking a bit of oil so i' wasnt surprised). I did that and the mechanice cleaned out the EGR however the 'service engine' light still comes up! Really fed up now and can't understand why someone can't get to the bottom of it.

The turbo leaking oil wasn't likely to cause this fault code. If it was not providing enough boost then that would have triggered an underboost code instead. I wouldn't have replaced the turbo for this code personally.

Thanks . Ill call the auto engineer out again and get him to take another look. Thing is though, if as you say you wouldnt have replaced the turbo, and the engineer said its the EGR or Turbo should I actually use the same guy or try someone else?

7 minutes ago, Spock72 said:

Thanks . Ill call the auto engineer out again and get him to take another look. Thing is though, if as you say you wouldnt have replaced the turbo, and the engineer said its the EGR or Turbo should I actually use the same guy or try someone else?

An auto electrician should be testing wiring. It's not their job to diagnose mechanical faults.

If he tested the wiring and sensors and confirmed those as all good, then he should have left the mechanical diagnosis to a mechanical professional instead.

So there are two ways to look at this now:

1. You spent a lot of money based on his diagnosis. So he should come back to provide further diagnosis free of charge, or provide at least a partial refund.

2. Cut your losses with both the auto-electrician and mobile mechanic. And find a more knowledgeable professional to provide further diagnosis.

Ahem, most auto electricians started off as mechanics. It is not possible to be an auto electrician (not a good one, anyway) without a thorough understanding of what the electronics are controlled by or controlling. You can be a mechanic without understanding a car's electronic systems but it doesn't work the other way round because the auto electrician has to understand WHY the reading is abnormal and that requires understanding of the mechanical systems.

13 minutes ago, anon said:

Ahem, most auto electricians started off as mechanics. It is not possible to be an auto electrician (not a good one, anyway) without a thorough understanding of what the electronics are controlled by or controlling. You can be a mechanic without understanding a car's electronic systems but it doesn't work the other way round because the auto electrician has to understand WHY the reading is abnormal and that requires understanding of the mechanical systems.

That's an interesting point. But that hasn't been my experience. Auto-electronics is it's own field nowadays. They need a mechanical understanding, but not necessarily any mechanical experience.

Thanks. I'm going to call the auto electrician again tomorrow and ask that he come down and take another look but this time without charge, esp as I've already paid £700+ for the parts he advised was faulty. If he declines then I will have to go to another garage and try yet again. For me logically, it has to be sensor or software related. Mechanically the car is fine esp now it has a new turbo and car drives brilliantly overall.

Will report back but thanks once again for being so helpful, I really appreciate it.

I have a mk3 focus zetec s 1.6t. I have a similar ongoing issue. I do know what is causing it and will be taking steps to finally eradicate the issue. It is caused by oil wicking through the wiring loom from contaminated sensors causing anomalies with the ECU. The root cause of the oil leak has been fixed and the loom cleaned along with the plug that connects to the ECU. It was a full year before the problem arose again. So I intend to re-clean the loom and ECU plug in the hope that the oil contamination will have run it's coarse. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Chris

Hi Chris

Thank you! That is really helpful indeed. Whereabouts was the oil leaking into loom and was it a case that, once the loom and the plug to the ECU was cleaed that's all that needed doing?

It does make some sort of sense to me. THe turbo was leaking a little oil and they had found oil on the MAF filter so i guess it could be that oil was running down the loom to the ECU from the MAF and causing it? Does that sound likely? Even so, its something that finally i can talk with the garage about and see what they find.

One final silly question if I may, whereabouts is the ECU within the car?

thanks again and ill talk with the auto electrician first (as Tom recommended, but only if he does it FOC!!) and then onto the garage.

I'll let you know how it goes and good luck on yours also

Hi, Sorry for the late reply.

The oil was getting into the loom via failed seals on the cam sensors, which were replaced. The loom and connection to the ECU was cleaned as well as possible. As I said before, that initial clean lasted for about a year before the service light came on again. At the moment I'm having to clear the error message about twice a week while I wait for the loom and plug to be cleaned again, hopefully next week. The ECU is located behind the mud guard under the front passenger side wing in front of the wheel. It is housed in a plastic box which needs to be opened to access the plug. In my case the ECU housing was drilled open then reassembled with screws for easier future access. I'm hoping this will be the last time it needs cleaning.

Hope this is helpful - good luck.

Kind regards, Chris

Hi Chris, that's really helpful. When it first happened I took it to the garage who said that the turbo needed replacing as it leaked oil. The MAF sensor and surrounded had a covering of it. I'm guessing that the oil has found its way down the loom but that would make sense given the MAF is on the passenger side of the car as is the ECU.

I had the turbo done (cost me £730 ! But, still cheaper than the stupid £2000+ I had been quoted by a few garages!) so at least its not leaking. I'm thinking maybe now the MAF and surrounds needs a good clean along with the loom and onto the ECU plug.

With mine the 'Engine Service' light comes on when I DON'T have the foot on the accelerator AND car in gear (i.e. i can freewheel in neutral at speed no problem and, strangely, doesn't come on when cruise control is on!) So, its quite a specific error which is odd.

However, at least what you've given me is really helpful as its another possible issue and slowly narrowing them down to find the solution! The garage said the engine is really nice, and now the turbo is brand new (and the EGR has been fully cleaned ) that i can move onto the issue you mentioned.

I do hope that the message for you clears up very soon as well now you've resolved the issue. Im wondering that, now your oil leak has been fixed that will dry up the source of future oil getting into the ECU and maybe that will help resolve it?