Hi Guys,

So I bought my car about 2 months ago, and the air con seems to be having some issues! I took it for a regass which was completed at my expense and it seemed to be OK, but now, the air con seems to be misbehaving again.

I contacted the dealer via email and he advised that he offers only a basic "Engine and Gearbox" warranty. The Sale Of Goods act states that the car must be fit for purpose (it is), but the grey area is of the warranty he offers. I wonder if he has exploited a loophole, or if he is not doing as much as he should!

I am taking the car for a free investigation at lunch to see if there are any problems with it, but it seems anything aircon related is due to me to fix? I am not too sure of this, but again wonder if he has exploited a loophole.

Anyone got any suggestions?

Thanks

James

PM duly sent

iirc under the sale of goods act you have 28 days to have any problems recified by the supplying dealer,this DOES not mean using any kind of warrenty that came with the car.as you have had it over 2 mths i think thats been and gone now.

iirc under the sale of goods act you have 28 days to have any problems recified by the supplying dealer,this DOES not mean using any kind of warrenty that came with the car.as you have had it over 2 mths i think thats been and gone now.

I've engaged James with advice on this and he is going to look into it and report back any findings. Just for info, statutory rights aren't subject to limitaions of 28 days and indeed cannot be excluded or restricted by reference to any contract terms (i.e. smallprint)

SOGA applies to used cars as well but there is clearly a reduced expectation of quality and durability etc.

28 day money back type offers crop up all the time but that is a sellers discretion rather than some statutory enforced right. I do believe somewhere along the lines an EU regulation brought about a subtle change which means you should give the dealer chance to repair rather than demand a refund or replacement after a certain amount of time has elapsed - which may well be 28 days.

Any time spent repairing is not counted when a court decides if enough time has passed for a seller to defeat a claim of rejection of goods that don't conform to SOGA.

i too had to go down the very same route with a dealer and used the soga etc when i found various problems with the car i had purchased.

lets hope he gets the result we all hope he should.

Dave is certainly offering invaluable advice which I am following through with! I will likely report back at the end with the result and process followed and to see if I can get a good result from it!

As a general question though Dave, under the terms of the mandatory 6 months liability of the dealer and the sale of the vehicle, are they allowed to restrict the warranty to just "basic engine and gearbox" or do they have a right of liability over the vehicle bumper to bumper?

When the car is used, the warranty is discretionary so the dealer can decide what to offer (once it's out of the original manufacturer warranty of course).

Any such warranty should be made clear by way of paperwork with terms and conditions. This should be given to you at the time of sale.

Warranties have always been ADDITIONAL to statutory rights but some dealers will 'try it on' and try to make you believe thatonce a warranty has expired, so does any rights you may have. As far as I am aware, there is nothing to prevent a warranty

being restricted but to repeat, you may still have rights under the Sale of Goods Act etc. As Dave correctly says, a

purchaser of a second-hand vehicle cannot expect it to be as fault free as you could reasonably expect a new vehicle to be

(you car appears to be about six years old). Have you any idea of the cost of putting right the air con yet? Probably the

best way forward is to try to negotiate with the seller with a view to sharing the cost.

Well, I need to take it back on Saturday in order to get it checked, probably a leak that will need to be plugged so no ideas as to the cost yet.

I might work with him, but to be honest, I received no paperwork with any warranty details, just at the time of purchase, I was told it comes with three months, but I advised that under the SOGA I understand to be entitled to 6 months, which he agreed to. I have not had anything though to say the warranty offered in writing of any form.

If you purchase an item from someone acting in the course of a business and it proves to be not of satisfactory quality or

fit for purpose, then it up to the seller to prove it was during the first six months of purchase, then the so-called burden of proof is on the purchaser. This aspect of the law seems to be the six months which you are referring too. Having said

this,the fault in question could be regarded as 'fair wear and tear' on a six year old car and you may not have any rights atall.I stick by my original practical advice and suggest that you firstly find out the cost of repair and secondly try to

negotiate with the seller to reach an amicable settlement. Can you remember if the car was advertised as having air con as

this may be relevant if the dealer gets difficult? Lastly, what you paid for the car will definitely be relevant.

If you purchase an item from someone acting in the course of a business and it proves to be not of satisfactory quality or

fit for purpose, then it up to the seller to prove it was during the first six months of purchase, then the so-called burden of proof is on the purchaser. This aspect of the law seems to be the six months which you are referring too.

S.48A of SOGA refers my friend. One of my favorite subjects when I studied the degree because it's something that crops up a lot and you can really relate to it in day to day life.

Well, as I have previously explained to Dave in PM (which I will share with you guys and a bit more info for everyones education :)).

The vehicle was bought from a "dealer" (in terms of a business) however, its more an independent trader I suppose. The vehicle was advertised as having air conditioning, and I reported the issue within 200 miles of travel at which point I was advised it would need a regass at my expense. So it was certainly reported within a reasonable amount of time.

As such I will certainly be quoting section 48 of SOGA as not satisfactory quality, I appreciate that if it was nothing more than evap due to age, I would expect to foot the bill, however, more will likely be revealed when I go back to the traders "nominated garage" who last did the regass on Saturday.

To be honest, I really like the car, I paid 2300 + part ex of 1400 (or the figures where later jumbled so it was pay 2700, with 1000 in part ex) rather than an outright purchase of list price at 37 or 3800 (I cannot quite recall). So it was a reasonable amount to pay for such a car, and as it has covered 110k miles at the time of purchase, I certainly do not expect perfection, but to me that would be a regass, I certainly though do not expect to foot the bill for say a compressor or radiator, having already paid out £58 for a regass on an issue that was reported within 200 miles of ownership.

I will look to see what the garage advise on my next visit to them, however, I must say there is an element of trust here, and my cynical mind is kicking in! I do wonder if said trader may have contacted said garage and given him a heads up, perhaps a deal was done behind closed doors to say "on his return, just do a regass and no dye, so that if there is a leak its clearly not visible" - again, my cynical mind and I wont cast the aspersion beyond just a fleeting thought, to the contrary, it could well be that he has contacted them to say "do a complete and thorough diagnostic, identify the exact issue and let me know, although I may or may not foot the bill". I suppose my biggest issue is that at the time of discussion with him, he advised that he would not foot the bill for a regass (understandable for just normal evaporation) however, he did also advise "unless there is a leak". In my mind, this is a verbal contract, which as part of the sale I would take to be an agreeable term. However, since contacting said dealer, he has since advised he offers only basic engine and gearbox warranty. Not sure if he is perhaps using this as a "scape goat" in the event that there is an expensive fix!

My mind is relatively well set, I will take the case directly to him and try to negotiate, however if the terms of negotiation are not satisfactory (and given Dave's advice over PM advising that small claims courts can be very low cost in comparison - say £100 or so) then I believe the investment into small claims court may need to be considered in order to either get a judicial agreement made so that the offer is more fair.

If there is one thing I cannot stand, it is being taken for a mug! after my experience with the seller of my CMAX (for whom I have to thank for even considering quoting the SOGA to this seller) I certainly will not be satisfied to foot any unnecessary bills, and having already spent £3700 on the car, I insist that I will not be forking out the best part of £1500 if necessary to resolve a potential issue.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the garage I see on Saturday and the result. If I really do feel I am being taken for a mug, then I will contact an independant garage (I recently used one a couple of days ago to check the air con, where he advised me it seems there is nothing there) and I will foot the bill for regass with dye in order to track the problem. Should I then have troubles, it will be another receipt to add to the case should I decide to take the matter to small claims court.

Obviously, the best thing to do at the moment is to wait until you know the seller's response and then decide on your next

course of action. If the car was advertised as having air conditioning, then this is something which may be in your favour.

Rather than going down the small claims route, you may consider using ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution). Your local

county court may have some information on this. Fifty percent of people who take a case to court lose, so it is not a

course that should be taken without careful thought! I suggest that you telephone your local trading standards department as the dealer may be known to them.

Apologies because I just skimmed the rest of this thread, but when my air con went a few months after buying the car I had the air con re gassed, and a leak fixed, and then a faulty belt changed all under warranty.

Best of luck!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Ford OC mobile app

I'd personally be amazed if the dealer kicks off over a condenser or pipes, it would cost him a few hundred quid to defend the claim plus costs and fees and the loss itself, for the sake of a £200 repair ( if it costs that to replace for instance ) he may just get on with and get it done, plus having any judgments hanging over your business has knock on effects too.

Thanks for the responses guys, as you say the best course of action is to have it checked over once again and identify the root cause of the issue and take a dispute from there. Trading standards may well be the best (first) point of call should there be any problems.

I agree with you but when you are arguing your case, a bit of legal stuff thrown in often helps. Sellers don't like to hear

Sale of Goods Act and trading standards mentioned!

Definitely true!

Nor I am sure he will be a fan of me saying that I am in communication with a solicitor who has advised me to say.... :p

that probably will kick him!

Definitely true!

Nor I am sure he will be a fan of me saying that I am in communication with a solicitor who has advised me to say.... :P

that probably will kick him!

I'm not there yet lol but on the right track (just passed my first 3 exams of the Legal Practice Course today). Still, what he doesn't know can't hurt him lol

haha, very true - well as a public update...

The car went back to the garage on saturday, he plugged it into the machine and it came up with two readings, one was circa 3, and the other was circa 40, so he said it was a tad lower than he would have thought and he topped it up for free. Took it away and I was cycling between air con on and off, it was starting to blow icy air out, and seemed to be slightly improved. the guy recons it might be as simple as a pressure switch in the air con needs replacing, so I have asked on the mondeo forums about this, as sadly, the Haynes manual makes no reference to such an item existing!

Sorry its taken a while to offer an update guys! I was going to diagnose the issue myself but cost meant that it would be just as cheap to get it seen to!

So I took it back to the regass garage today and they chucked the dye in, up on the ramp and away it went, although when I had a look I couldnt quite see the dye, although this was only 5 minutes after it was put in, I did see something feint!

So The compressor appears to be the fault! seemingly common on Ford's? at £300 parts alone, I wasnt going to take this one lying down! so I spoke with the garage, they agreed, it shouldnt be my problem! spoke to the dealer, advised that I dont see why yhis should be something I pay for, he agreed to contact the garage and would arrange the repair. He has done but I havent yet contacted the garage to make the arrangement!

Then I argued that the cost of the regass initially and the diagnostics should be covered, he went away and said he would look into it, but came back with an unclear response. So I argued again, why should I pay for a regass? I mean, if there wasnt a hole there, then I wouldnt have needed to pay for the regass, so its clearly due to the fault? then the same with the diagnostics! so he kept on trying to say "but you wont get charged for the regass as part of the repair because you already paid" so I still argued if there wasnt a hole in the first place, there wouldnt need to be a regass. Still havent had a straight answer, but I am dropping him an email to ensure that my repair is adhered to and the costs assoscaited with the regass and diagnostics are done.