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Hi there

I have a Focus TDci 1.6, approx 76,000 miles..

Last week I had an Engine Malfunction light (MIL) and DTC 2584 appear after refuelling with deisel..

Diagnosed I believe correctly as low fuel additive, and a local garage refilled this for me but could not get rid of the MIL nor the DTCs in the system..

After some research I realise that the FACM counter needs reset by the appropriate diagnostic tool (which I assume garage did not have)...

Reading that you could do this with FORScan, I downloaded the tool.. this revealed further codes, all to do with low fuel additive.. 

I went through both FACM refill and primer service functions sucessfully.. However there was one more service function FACM Reset.. when I clicked on this it said "Service Unavaiable".. I am guessing this is the service that resets the FACM counter?

Clearing the DTCs clear the warning lights temporarily but not the MIL..

Does anyone know why the FACM reset function is locked out?

I checked my DPF stats and it seems healthy enough considering age.. last regen 61km ago.. which was after the fuel additive refill..

Is there a forscan trick I am missing to reset the counter?

Or is this a Ford IDS only function?

Any help would be very much appreciated.. Trying to avoid the dealer ££££££ for a counter reset..

Many Thanks

Al

 

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22 hours ago, AlGeee said:

Clearing the DTCs clear the warning lights temporarily but not the MIL..

Does anyone know why the FACM reset function is locked out?

According to one note on the Forscan site, it seems that the refill & prime service function both reset the counter internally. So that could be why it cannot be reset (again).

http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=220#p2439

What are the actual DTCs you have?

There is one (P242F) that is hard to remove, and requires unplugging the MAF, running the engine to generate MAF DTCs, then it seems a DTC reset clears the P242F error as well. This might be worth trying even if you do not have 242F.

I am sure others have done a refill just using Forscan.

 

 

 

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I have used Forscan to reset both mine and another members FACM counter when we had both filled then up. I see no reason why you should not be able to reset it. 

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What DTC can't you clear? is your interface a modified one that can read all modules?

Without knowing what the DTC is it's hard to figure out what is going on. 

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Thanks so much for the replies guys..

I will put forscan on today and read back all the DTCs by number and report back 

Thanks again much appreciated 

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Hi again

Connected car to Forscan and got these errors ..

P2458-21 - DPF Regeneration duration
P2584-E1 - FACM MIL request
P2585-61 - FACM Warning Lamp request
P1922-60 - Fuel Additive Level Circuit
P1927-60 - Fuel Additive Too Low /Empty
P1932-60 - Fuel Additive Low

I ran the service procedures again:
Both the “Refill” and “Prime”

Tried to clear the DTC’s and could not clear either:
P1927-60 - Fuel Additive Too Low /Empty
P1932-60 - Fuel Additive Low

via forscan.. the other 4 codes cleared…

So re-starting I get:

P2584-61 - FACM MIL request
P2585-61 - FACM Warning Lamp request
P1927-60 - Fuel Additive Too Low /Empty
P1932-60 - Fuel Additive Low

And the MIL still illuminated...

So looks like the clearing off the P1927 and P1932 would possibly solve it..?

Does this mean although I *think* the local garage refilled the additive tank they may have:
refilled with the wrong stuff?
didn’t fill it up enough? (it cost me £75, which they said was “at cost” but I think their actual fluid price was £35)…?

Are there any other steps I can take to try clear them.. I would try the MAF unplugging if it is a low risk option that may work? I don’t have the DTC related to this though…

Does unplugging the battery, do any sort of reset for these codes?

Thanks again


 

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59 minutes ago, AlGeee said:

So looks like the clearing off the P1927 and P1932 would possibly solve it..?

Forscan tells you which module the DTCs are in. I assume P1927 & P1932 are in the FACM. I think it also has a module specific DTC reset ability. You select the required module (FACM in this case), then press the reset. It may be worth trying that.

I know of no harm to be done by removing the MAF. A lot of people have done this, it is a way of testing the MAF as it goes into a default mode while disconnected. I do not think it will work in this case but...

If all attempts to clear the DTCs fail, then it looks like there is a hard fault that is immediately bringing them back. I am not sure what. The circuit to the filler flap sensor is possible. As far as I know, there is no Eolys level sensing on these cars. The circuit drawing shows the pins for it on the FACM & pump, but not connected. All reports I have heard suggest all fluid measurement is done via counting doses delivered. But reports and drawings have been know to be wrong sometimes!

It would be worth checking fuses F100 & F102 in the passenger fuse box.

I am certain that it does not know what the garage put in, though.

59 minutes ago, AlGeee said:

Does this mean although I *think* the local garage refilled the additive tank they may have:
refilled with the wrong stuff?

The price is a bit suspicious. Genuine Eolys is about £50 per litre, I think the tank needs 1.5l or so. So £75 could be right. There is a much cheaper alternative called PAT fluid, marketed by JLM. This claims to be Eolys compatible, I have heard nothing to counter, or support, that. Much worse is that some cars (not Ford) use Adblue, a completely different thing, for a different purpose (NOx reduction in a cat). Putting Adblue in would be a disaster.

But I think that is a separate question to what is making the DTCs stay on.

 

facm.png

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Ok I think I understand a bit better .. thanks for the detail.. I had a quick check of the fuses and there are 2 x 10 amp ones in place .. I'll see if I can pull them and check them later. 

Other than that it's looking like there may be something up with the module, or at least the reset circuit..

It is curious though as this seemed to happen in the classic way, i.e. The MIL light came on shortly after putting in diesel ..

Probably an out there thought - but is it possible that the fuel tank needs to be a certain level before the FACM can be fully reset.. as it's only been bout 1/4 full when I've tried this.. ?

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I used the JLM Pat fluid in mine when I needed to fill the tank and have not noticed anything out of the ordinary, it still regen's like it did before.

The regeneration code simply means a regen was not completed or interrupted so ignore that as that will clear as you have shown and come back later when it happens again.

As Pete says as far as I can tell there is no level sensor on the tank, it simply has an inlet and outlet pipe and a connector for the power to run the pump inside the tank to deliver the dosage, however it may be that there is a level sensor of some kind built into the tank.

I find it odd that you can clear DTC's and you can perform the refill and prime function but can't reset the counter on the FACM. The fact you can use the refill and prime function would suggest your ELM is able to talk to the FACM without any issues. So logically there is no reason it should  not be able to clear the fluid level DTC's.

Volume of fuel and volume of fluid should not make any difference, as long as there is enough of either then should not be an issue. The pat fluid should last around 75K miles as that is when it;s first dosage is required in the servicing schedule and I believe it is approx a 1.8 litre tank. At a rough guesstimate it would take around 1666 gallons of fuel (assuming my working out to be correct 75K divided by 45mpg on average) to empty the PAT fluid completely if it is totally full, so the dosage amount is very small, how many times you open the fuel cap has a bearing on this as that is actually what is counted, it counts how often the fuel cap is opened for refuelling.

I wonder if there is an issue with your ELM interface or the version on Forscan your using? Although the FACM is on the HS speed can network so an unmodified interface shoudl still work fine.

Try downloading Elmconfig and try the counter reset function in the FACM section on there and let us know if that works or not?

 

 

Elmconfig FACM screen shot.JPG

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Before running ELMconfig I tried the procedure again using an older version of Forscan, the one bundled with my ELM cable...

No difference in result, however in one of the tries I *did* manage to clear the DTC's temporarily. This was when I ran the service procedure in the wrong way and switched down the "running engine" too early, before the MIL light illuminated. This was only temporary though, as when restarted after about 30s of running the MIL light came back on and the error codes appeared again..  

However it is the first time the DTC's have actually cleared, as normally they just clear and instantly re-appear again on re-reading...

So next step was to run ELMconfig as suggested...

I managed to successfully connect and reset the FACM counter through the interface as below:

ELM_facmreset.png

However as before when trying to reset the DTC's they just appeared again right away...

So am at a loss whether it is actually resetting, or looking like I have some genuine issue with the FACM module, or some version of software that cannot be programmed.. I do think my focus is a Euro import, judging by its default Kmpg readings etc, so its maybe a different setup internally from a regular UK version..

Anyway in case there are other pointers to be had I noticed the following AFTER I have cleared the counter and attempted to reset the codes..

The FACM info reads below:

ELM_info.png

.. which looks to me a bit strange, of how the mass and current level would be known..maybe these are just there but disconnected..

Also I tried one last thing when I read the Configuration data from the car I seen that the "dosing pipe needs filling" box was ticked..

ELM_dosing.png

So I tried un-ticking this then writing back to the FACM to see if this was the root of the codes, however it did not allow me to do this giving me the security error below:

ELM_sec.png

So kind of at a loss now what to do, I haven't checked the fuses yet, but I think they will be OK as I have managed to clear FACM DTC's albeit temporarily... May do that tomorrow though, but the fuses are quite awkward to get at..

Once again I appreciate the replies on this, with your help I've had a really good go at trying to self diagnose but its looking a bit ominous that I have a hard fault or some unusual incompatibility somewhere in my car..

May just have to either live with the MIL for a while or bite the bullet and take to Ford.. are there any adverse effects running the engine in this state.. will the Additive be added to the fuel as normal even with this circuit out of whack..?

Cheers

 

 

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51 minutes ago, AlGeee said:

bite the bullet and take to Ford.. are there any adverse effects running the engine in this state.. will the Additive be added to the fuel as normal even with this circuit out of whack..?

I would be surprised (and I am not being cynical, I would be pleasantly surprised), if a garage with a Ford franchise was able to do much better than you have. It would have to be a good one.

I doubt if any additive is being put in. As a backup measure, I would put a dose of Wynns DPF cleaner in the fuel tank. This claims to be Eolys compatible, and does much the same job (various sources say it contains cerium oxide, the essential constituent of Eolys, but I can not 100% confirm this). It would do no harm & might do some good.

Eolys, I have heard, does its job in the cylinder, while the fuel is burning. The soot particles combine with the cerium oxide, which modifies them to have a lower ignition temperature. Then, when they collect in the DPF, they can be burnt off during a regen, when the DPF temperature is raised. Un-modified soot my not burn, and may stick in the DPF and block it prematurely. So it may be important to minimise the amount of fuel used which does not have cerium oxide added.

It does look to me like ELMconfig & Forscan are clearing the DTCs, but they are re-appearing almost immediately due to a real fault in the FACM, pump or filler cap sensor.

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This is very odd. The mass of additive figure is how much fluid has been dosed into the fuel tank as far as I know.

So it seems odd that the figure is 0mg unless somehow you have rest that figure?

I must admit I am a little baffled as to why you can't clear the MIL by successfully resetting the counter and the fact the DTC's come back straight away.

Have you ever noticed your car doing a regeneration? Has it had the DPF mapped out possibly? 

Otherwise I would think you are possibly looking at an issue with the FACM or a wiring issue from the looks of things. 

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23 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

I doubt if any additive is being put in. As a backup measure, I would put a dose of Wynns DPF cleaner in the fuel tank. This claims to be Eolys compatible, and does much the same job (various sources say it contains cerium oxide, the essential constituent of Eolys, but I can not 100% confirm this). It would do no harm & might do some good.

Many thanks for the tip, I will definitely put some Wynns cleaner in when I fuel later in the week..

 

19 hours ago, simcor said:

Have you ever noticed your car doing a regeneration? Has it had the DPF mapped out possibly? 

Otherwise I would think you are possibly looking at an issue with the FACM or a wiring issue from the looks of things. 

Ive had the car since 2010, so think its unlikely to have been mapped out earlier than that, you never know though - this is the first experience I have had with DPF related trouble, and I wasn't aware at all you needed to top up additive fluid.. the garage that serviced my car should have possibly told me or at least asked me about it when it was done in May, but a bit late now..

I think Ive noticed my car regen..obvious fans coming on etc... I do approximately 1-2 50 mile motorway trips a week.. I looked at forscan figures, and it says it did its last regen 29Km ago.. or maybe this was failed attempt.. says about 8,000 Km until "ashful"...

An issue with the FACM or wiring doesnt sound like a cheap fix when the car is probably worth not too much anyway at this point in time, ill have to do the sums on whether if that is the root of it whether its wothwhile.. especially knowing now about the "£1,000 service" possibly just around the corner....

12 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

In this sort of case I'd try leaving the battery off for half an hour (or longer if possible) for a hard reset of the modules. 

Is the filler cap magnet still present btw?

When I get some time this week I will likely try the battery disconnect (need to make sure I have my radio codes!).. but if that does do a hard reset it seems to me worth doing so cheers for this tip too..

I have no idea if the filler cap magnet is present, as I don't know what this looks like (I am a newbie...), I will google what it is an double check in the morning... do you think this is a possible source of the error?

8 hours ago, iantt said:

Is the tank actually full?

Another great question! I am taking the garages word for it and the fact I was charged for the additive.. I cannot obviously see the tank, especially in the dark, so I'm thinking it may be worth double checking with another garage... I was going on the assumption that the level does not have a sensor on it and so the FACM reset issue is a seperate but as this seems an unusual issue I may have an unusual configuration...

Thanks again to all who have taken the time to reply to me on this topic..

 

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, AlGeee said:

I have no idea if the filler cap magnet is present, as I don't know what this looks like (I am a newbie...), I will google what it is an double check in the morning... do you think this is a possible source of the error?

This triggers the FACM count, and if missing, it could just be causing those low fluid errors. They have been known to fall out.

Another suggestion (hoping not to overload you!), if obvious checks like battery reset, magnet & fuse do nothing, you could try posting a query on the Forscan site. They are often good a dealing with specific queries about service procedures. Just in case a software update has introduced a bug into the reset procedure. Though if you have tried it via ELMconfig also, this seems unlikely.

 

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The fuel cap magnet is just that, a little round shiny magnet on the hinge side of the filler flap. :smile:

Are we totally sure there's no level gauge in there?  It's rare for anyone to fully fill them from what I've seen, most people just seem to top up with a litre so they'd never actually be 'full' for the software to work out half full or totally empty until nothing at all comes out?

Ian makes a good point though...I mean how well do you trust the garage?  I've got visions of them trying to pour it into the fuel tank now...with the easyfuel casuing it to just pool around their feet... :laugh:  The tank itself is too dark to see a level (or at least mine is, maybe they changed to a more transparent colour?)  so it's not easy to see how much is in there, I think you'd have to try putting more in and wait for the overspill.  But if they just put a litre in it'd take quite a bit more to overspill which is obviously extra cost.

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I checked the cap and the magnet was still there.. wasn't very shiny, but it was definitely there!!! 

.. the car has a capless fuel filler.. does that make a difference?

I will do the basic checks and the battery disconnect.. if no change from that I think I may take it to another garage who may be a bit more clued up to see if there's anyway they can check the level..

I couldn't obviously see the tank level (or even sure I was looking in the right place) today..

Thanks again guys

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On 15/11/2016 at 9:04 PM, AlGeee said:

I checked the cap and the magnet was still there.. wasn't very shiny, but it was definitely there!!! 

.. the car has a capless fuel filler.. does that make a difference?

I will do the basic checks and the battery disconnect.. if no change from that I think I may take it to another garage who may be a bit more clued up to see if there's anyway they can check the level..

I couldn't obviously see the tank level (or even sure I was looking in the right place) today..

Thanks again guys

Hi! Can you please let me know if you managed to resolve your issue, and if so how?  I have had the same issues as you have with no resolution.  In live data my tank level % is showing as 100.00 but there is another option I checked called TANK_FLAG which is showing as Empty.  The chap who topped up the fluids says if anything he thinks he's overfilled it.  Does anyone know if overfilling the tank would send the sensor - if it has one in the tank - out of detectable range? 

Thank you

Update

After my most recent refuel I checked the TANK_FLAG level and it showed as TANK_FLAG FULL, I then got rid of the codes and they haven't come back.  There are no codes showing on Forscan and it seems everything is fine, forscan is also showing that the car did a regen around 40 miles ago.

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I have the same problem. I got the same messages as Al Geee posted:

Connected car to Forscan and got these errors ..

P2458-21 - DPF Regeneration duration
P2584-E1 - FACM MIL request
P2585-61 - FACM Warning Lamp request
P1922-60 - Fuel Additive Level Circuit
P1927-60 - Fuel Additive Too Low /Empty
P1932-60 - Fuel Additive Low

I ran the service procedures again:
Both the “Refill” and “Prime”

Tried to clear the DTC’s and could not clear either:
P1927-60 - Fuel Additive Too Low /Empty
P1932-60 - Fuel Additive Low

via forscan.. the other 4 codes cleared…

So re-starting I get:

P2584-61 - FACM MIL request
P2585-61 - FACM Warning Lamp request
P1927-60 - Fuel Additive Too Low /Empty
P1932-60 - Fuel Additive Low

And the MIL still illuminated...

Is there anyone who has fixed with this problem?

Both my device of Autel and Forscan are not able to get rid of the messages.

I have topped up the FAT myself so I m certain it is full.

Also the fueltank is filled completely.

Thanks Norbert

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7 hours ago, CmaxNob said:

Both my device of Autel and Forscan are not able to get rid of the messages.

Have you tried resetting DTCs for specific modules, ie the FACM? Forscan seems to work on a module basis. One thread where this seemed to work:

If that does not work, have a look at the connector to the FACM to see if the level sensor wire is present (diagram above), maybe some cars do actually have a real level sensor, and this is malfunctioning.

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I have tried resetting DTCs for the specific modules, ie the FACM. I can't get rid of the error codes.

I will check the FACM if there is a wire for the level sensor. At the FAT there are only three wires. 1 ground, 1 pump, 1 sensor ?

If there is a sensor, can I fool this signal? A sensor you can only replace by replacing the whole FAT. Local Ford dealer told me it will cost Euro 750,00 only to purchase the tank .....

Many thanks for the response so far

Norbert

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4 hours ago, CmaxNob said:

At the FAT there are only three wires. 1 ground, 1 pump, 1 sensor ?

If there is a sensor, can I fool this signal?

The diagram above of the FACM & FAT (in rather low resolution!) was from the Focus schematic on this site:

https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=42087

This is not 100% correct, especially for a Cmax, but it is a good starting point. From the schematic, the 3 wires are Gnd, Pump & Vref. It would need some measurements taken to confirm this.

The FACM is shown on page 59. There are connector faceviews on page 123 (copy below). The colour codes may not be right for the Cmax, but usually Ford use the same modules and connectors where possible.

If there is a level sensor, it is likely to be a pot. It would be possible to add some resistors to look like a pot in a fixed, "full" position, but would take some investigation on the car with a meter to check it all out.

However, in all the previous threads I have seen, it seems there is no sensor, just counting doses.

Have you also checked that the filler flap detector (magnet & reed switch usually) is working? This may confuse the FACM if is is not working.

C987.PNG

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Thanks for your reply. The colour codes are the same.

The difference is at the facm. There are 10 wires connected i.s.o. the 8 on the drawing.

Is it possible the vref connection has something to do with the level warning?

I have checked the filler flap with the live option and it gives the right signal open and closed.

I think I will try to get a new (second hand) facm because this one is the easiest to replace to start with.

Thanks so far. I will keep you informed.

Norbert

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4 hours ago, CmaxNob said:

There are 10 wires connected i.s.o. the 8 on the drawing.

Is it possible the vref connection has something to do with the level warning?

I suspect you missed the two CAN bus wires, drawn at the back of the FACM. So there are 10 on the drawing too. It is useful to know the drawing looks correct, even on a CMax. I know of a few places where it seems wrong, mainly because of the number of variants, though the drawing does account for most of the common variation. A shot of the CAN bus connection (from page 26) is below.

I would guess that Vref is a +5v supply, to be used by the level sensor if fitted. Why that is still wired when the level sensor signal is missing is anyone's guess. Maybe the pump uses it in some way.

It might be worth trying Forscan with the pump disconnected from the FACM, to see is any of the error codes change. If not, it does suggest a fault in the FACM. Maybe it was setup for no level sensor, but that setting is now corrupted, and it expects to see a real level sensor. The electronic module may be common to several cars, it is probably not made by or for Ford, and if so it will have these options built-in. They may be factory set, with no user way to change them. I assume ELMConfig shows nothing about this. So a replacement FACM may be the answer. Hope so!

 

facm2.PNG

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