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various faults 2010focus 1.6 tdci


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ūüė£ hi all ,i dont suppose im the only one to have these problems ,p193b p1936,1935 1260,and APPS circuit and APP sensor ,all found after coming out of the "dinasor shed "at 68yrs old and getting a forscan ,the management light comes on now and again and i think it may be a wiring problem has anyone experienced the same before i rip into anything i would later regret throtttle function a bit latent ie just a bit flat spot when 1st lightly pressed then ok fuel is good at 56/66 mpg ,i changed the overboost valve¬† as code showed this to be a problem and was ok for days ive owned the car for 6mths and lived with the problem after it showed up 3 days after buying needless to say the seller NEVER had any .is there any connectors or wiring loom faults know for this problem , any help appreciated ,Charlie sunning in torquay

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That looks like a cluster (dash clocks) fault to me.

The 1260 immobiliser code is common with the cluster, and I'm sure the throttle pedal runs through the cluster as well.

The solder breaks down causing bad connections in the cluster, common issue on the Mk2 Focus.  

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1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

That looks like a cluster (dash clocks) fault to me.

The 1260 immobiliser code is common with the cluster, and I'm sure the throttle pedal runs through the cluster as well.

The solder breaks down causing bad connections in the cluster, common issue on the Mk2 Focus.  

thanks for the input tom i havent thought of pulling the dash out yet ,1936./35 are clutch and brake switch sensors. would they also go though the cluster it would seem to be connected ,i have no problem with any dash lighting etc nor if driving on motorway or at speed ,it just lights the engine management fault at low or no throttle around 1700rpm or less what would be the usual cure for dash any ideas

Edited by charles yates
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I'm not sure about the other pedal switches but they probably do take the same route, hopefully Wilco or Peter will see this thread as they've got more wiring info than I have.

The usual fix is to have the cluster repaired by somewhere like BBA Reman if it is that at fault.

 

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22 hours ago, charles yates said:

these problems ,p193b p1936,1935 1260,

The cluster problem was very, very common on the 2006 Focus, less so on other years. But it still can happen. However I would expect to see more U code errors (communication problems). But P1260 is very possibly linked to this.

On the Mk2a Focus, the immobiliser transponder, the clutch and brake switches, and one of the two APP sensors do run through the cluster (IC in Ford terms). All this has to go to the ECU (or PCM) via the HS-CAN bus. The typical 2006 cluster problem was on the connections for the CAN bus, hence lots of communication errors. But other cluster problems are possible.

A quick test for the CAN bus is to look for 60 ohms between the 2 CAN bus lines with the ignition off. Pins 6 & 14 in the diagnostic connector are the HS-CAN bus. Also bashing the facsia near the cluster (not the cluster itself!) can alter the symptoms (worse or better) if there is a bad connection.

Removal of the cluster is easy in principle, 2 bolts and one connector. But great care is needed, there are lugs at the top that dig into the facsia, and need to be freed (eg by levering the facsia up) without cracking the brittle cluster cover.

 

Mk2-IC-1.PNG

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thankyou for your knowledge Peter i do have other faults showing as ,APPS circuit APP sensor and faulty PCM so given these its a good bet that the solder on the plug is at fault ,i am hoping to get my son to solder it for me as he has re balled games machines in the past and has some good gear i dont think i could afford BBA Reman money is hard to keep when you are retired ,i like the car even with the technology of modern vehicles the economy offsets the problems but give me my old capri GTXLR or my cortina Mk4 2l ghia and i could do anything to it with eyes open

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well further to the various faults saga i thought i would remove the dial cluster today ,i was surprised to find it was not secured and on removal the rear had the tell tale signs that it had already been changed ,"i e" the white paint with focus and a code number from breaker ,my next move is should i presume its not the cluster and look somewhere else or go with my gut feeling and pull it apart anyway and re do the solder on the plug ,does anyone know if there is another  connector in the loom that may be at fault ["still winning"]

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4 hours ago, charles yates said:

i would remove the dial cluster today ,i was surprised to find it was not secured and on removal the rear had the tell tale signs that it had already been changed ,"i e" the white paint with focus and a code number from breaker ,my next move is should i presume its not the cluster and look somewhere else or go with my gut feeling and pull it apart anyway and re do the solder on the plug ,does anyone know if there is another  connector in the loom that may be at fault

There are three more connectors in the CAN bus between IC & PCM. C90 is the big connector inside the engine bay fusebox. C112 and C113 are big connectors that are hidden under the side trim low down just in front of the passenger door. You pull out the door rubber seal, and lift the trim along the bottom of the door to release the side trim. C112 & C113 are prone to bad contacts if water gets into the car, especially into the footwell. There are actually 3 connectors down there, I can not recall which is which though!

If you want to dismantle the IC, I have done a PDF with some photos: https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=40491

And there are videos on Youtube. It does need a bit of care and planning, like marking the pointer positions.

However, there is another possibility, it is the wrong version. I believe all Mk2/2a clusters are actually interchangeable, but there is some programming needed. If the faults are intermittent, then wrong version is unlikely. But if the faults re-appear as soon as they are cleared, then it is possible.

If the faults are intermittent, then I would have a look at those other connectors before stripping down the IC. Worth removing and looking at the various IC and PCM fuses also, they can develop bad contacts sometimes.

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17 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

There are three more connectors in the CAN bus between IC & PCM. C90 is the big connector inside the engine bay fusebox. C112 and C113 are big connectors that are hidden under the side trim low down just in front of the passenger door. You pull out the door rubber seal, and lift the trim along the bottom of the door to release the side trim. C112 & C113 are prone to bad contacts if water gets into the car, especially into the footwell. There are actually 3 connectors down there, I can not recall which is which though!

If you want to dismantle the IC, I have done a PDF with some photos: https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=40491

And there are videos on Youtube. It does need a bit of care and planning, like marking the pointer positions.

However, there is another possibility, it is the wrong version. I believe all Mk2/2a clusters are actually interchangeable, but there is some programming needed. If the faults are intermittent, then wrong version is unlikely. But if the faults re-appear as soon as they are cleared, then it is possible.

If the faults are intermittent, then I would have a look at those other connectors before stripping down the IC. Worth removing and looking at the various IC and PCM fuses also, they can develop bad contacts sometimes.

Peter from dorset ,,thanks for the update i shall have a hunt around first before dismantling the dials etc ,i have a IC with code 8V4T-10849-HK its got a build date of17/12/09 i have no way of knowing if its correct fitment but i will clear codes and go for a drive with the forscan attached and see if they appear right away  ,my son has a computer repair business and has reballing and various soldering rigs so i can do the job there if i dont find anything else

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5 hours ago, charles yates said:

i have a IC with code 8V4T-10849-HKÔĽŅ

A rather quick scan gives 8V4T as part nos for a Kuga, the Focus parts I have seen are 4U5T or 7U5T. That is not to say it is not compatible, I assume that it has been re-programmed at least for PATS (immobiliser) if the car will start at all, but it is a bit odd.

(The Kuga uses the same Ford "platform" as the Focus, so there is a lot of commonality)

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further to above  i have been and investigated behind the passenger side trim all looks well clean and dry i did remove one connection to check  and clean the paint back on the 2 earth wires the removal of the forward one did cause a flicking of what seemed to be a relay under the dash somewhere ,i have also cleaned all fuses in the engine bay fusebox wiggled wires to see if it makes a difference ,as for the 8v4t dials that set up was in the car when i bought it 8 months ago i have done the usual tests re sweep etc  and all works "perfik "D 500came up but im lead to believe thats normal i will drive on for a few days and if it chimes up again i may well put it on the bench and get the boy to liven up the solder , thanks once again Peter for your help i was taught to be cautious so i plod on

 

 

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4 hours ago, charles yates said:

D 500came up but im lead to believe thats normal

D500 on the IC secret test is actually DTC U1500. This is a rather rare DTC, about which little good, reliable information seems to exist. But it is related to CAN bus communication problems.

I would have expected this to show up on Forscan too.

If it was D900, that is U1900, which is a very common DTC, that can be caused just by plugging in an adapter to the socket. It can be set by just a minor CAN bus disturbance.

When I stripped down my IC, I took it to my workbench, under a good light, with a magnifier on it, and immediately spotted the bad solder on the connector. But then I have inspected 1000s of pcbs for bad solder joints (tis part of my job!), and usually home in on them pretty quick!

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  • 2 weeks later...

further to my conundrum i had the IC re-flowed last week and for a few days all was ok then sunday afternoon it decided to chime up again ,p193B throttle /peddle signal APPS 1 fault  i could change the peddle or i will have to visit my local ford dealership which for me is Vospers in torquay and get booked in for a medical perhaps their diagnostics will throw up the cause and repair anyone know if there is a standard cost for diagnostics or is it what they can squeeze us for ,i have lifted the forscan pic ,dont know if its any good

20180813_115427.thumb.jpg.ab1c41599401cf35386c36fca017efd7.jpg

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On 8/14/2018 at 10:46 AM, charles yates said:

it decided to chime up again ,p193B throttle /peddle signal APPS 1 fault  i could change the peddle or i will have to visit my local ford dealership which for me is Vospers in torquay and get booked in for a medical perhaps their diagnostics will throw up the cause

I doubt if their diagnostics will show up anything very different to Forscan. They will then have a workshop procedure to follow in what to test or change. But with such an array of odd faults, I doubt if the standard workshop procedure will be much use. Only one of the faults relates to accelerator, the only common link between the DTCs is some sort of communication problem.

Note: The APPS has two outputs, one goes direct to the PCM, one goes to the IC. The PCM reads the IC output over the CAN bus, and compares the two, giving an error if either are out of bounds, or if they don't match. According to Forscan, the PCM cannot (occasionally) read the IC output of the APPS signal. So it seems to be an intermittent communication problem.

They may proceed by first changing parts: Diagnostics (£100), Accelerator (£100 to £250, say), IC (£800 to £900), PCM (£1000++)

Or they may go by replacing wiring looms first, this is where I suspect the problem may be. This is quite labour intensive, at main dealer rates of say £80 an hour, so may not be cheap.

Any good auto-electricians (with a good reputation) in your area?

I might try to get another 2nd hand IC (the right one) off eBay, and would closely investigate the CAN bus wiring all the way from IC to PCM, including all the other bits (ABS, EHPAS, FACM) that is goes to. This fault is rather intermittent, and bad connections like that will always hide as soon as a multimeter comes into sight! So it would not be easy.

I just looked up B1600 & B1681. These are interesting, they relate to the PATS transponder. This is a little coil module that is round the ignition key barrel. It is connected direct to the IC, and the DTCs are in the IC. A faulty transponder will also cause the P1260 error in the PCM. So that is three DTCs all linked to the PATS transponder or its wiring, and not directly linked to CAN bus errors. Could the IC be freezing up or misbehaving due to a fault in the PATS transponder, then causing the other communication errors?

 

 

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once again thank you Peter for your useful input ,im still looking for the cause i cleaned the battery to body earth yesterday as it looked a bit sus ,i scratched the paint back for better contact, also noticed the spare key which is aftermarket jobbie is not recognised by the imobiliser ,i never checked it until your comment about pats guess thats a dealership job or can locksmith do that by computer ? i will find a good auto electric man and see if he can shine a light on the problem ,

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2 hours ago, charles yates said:

pats guess thats a dealership job or can locksmith do that by computer ?

Forscan can add keys to PATS. Or an auto-electrician or mobile locksmith could possibly do it.

But I would be a little wary of doing any programming to the PATS system while the car is faulty. There is a risk it will disable all keys, and not be able to re-programme any.

I guess that usually the car starts ok with the main key. With those 3 PATS related DTCs, I would expect it to throw a wobbly sometimes. How often it does this, if at all, would be a help in seeing how intermittent the problem is. With intermittent faults, the more history you can build up, the better. It can give clues as to the location of the fault.

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i have never had a problem with starting ,it fires 1st time every time and the only time it chimes up red is when there is no weight on the engine usually around 1700ish revs and no or light throttle i have never had it light up on the motorway under load so far ,i havent been under the nearside wing yet to explore

 

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14 hours ago, charles yates said:

i have never had a problem with starting ,it fires 1st time every time and the only time it chimes up red is when there is no weight on the engine usually around 1700ish revs and no or light throttle i have never had it light up on the motorway under load so far ,i havent been under the nearside wing yet to explore

Have you managed to clear the codes yet? And checked that they all go by re-reading DTCs immediately after. It looks like some may be old codes, confusing the situation.

From the Forscan data, it looks like it is the ABS codes that are putting the MIL on, from the status value -A0 after the codes. But again, unless the codes are read almost as soon as they appear, it is very hard to tell.

From your other described symptoms ( hesitation, light on at same place in APPS), it does look like the APPS is at fault. Forscan can show real time data, and will display the APPS readings, I think even with the engine not running (ign on). This might show a little glitch in the readings.

So either go with your gut feel and change the APPS, or use Forscan to the full to try and eliminate any misleading codes, to get to the main one. The software in these cars is really not very good (like almost all modern software), it falls over as soon as it is pushed. The codes can help, but they can often also be misleading!

Looking in the ECU housing under the wing will not reveal much, the connector is hidden by a security bolted cover. It will show if there has been water in there, likely to cause corrosion, but as it is part of the air intake system, it usually stays quite dry.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

well further to recent activity i did wiggle wires around above the throttle peddle and all ok for days ,the wife drove it today  and as soon as she started moving on came the engine fault icon , she is very light on the peddle ,there seems to be a dead spot on the peddle ,CAN I FIT ANY FORD THROTTLE PEDDLE,car is a 2010 1.6 tdci [dpf] or does it have to match the model and year bearing in mind someone has fitted a 8V4T instrument dial ,thanks to anyone in anticipation

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4 hours ago, charles yates said:

CAN I FIT ANY FORD THROTTLE PEDDLE,car is a 2010 1.6 tdci [dpf] or does it have to match the model and year

From ford.7zap.com, there are 6 variants for this car. If you have non-adjustable pedals, RHD and manual transmission, the ford part no seems to be 1544626. eBay give a few hilts for this, mostly very expensive new ones, one used. It does seem to cover quite a lot of models & years & engines. Further searching may revel more.

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6 hours ago, charles yates said:

presume there will be gradual readings

There are two independant sensors in the pedal unit. The sensor that goes to the IC (Pins 1,2,3 on the pedal) looks like it will be a standard pot, so can be tested with a multimeter. But the other sensor that goes to the PCM seems to have a PWM output, so would need 12v supplied to it (pin 6), and 0v on pin 4, and will then output a pulsing voltage on pin 5, a multimeter would read the average, which should be linear with pedal position.

app1.PNG

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