auldreekie

Stop/Start Feature

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Just curious, how many folk disable this feature when starting a journey, can sometimes be a pita when in slow moving traffic.

As it has been in use several years now is there any evidence it wears the starting motor out quicker or is that a myth?

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I never turn mine off, but I rarely do stop start traffic.  It works well for me as I'm usually only stopped for several minutes at a time by traffic lights or level crossings, rather than inching forward in rush hour traffic.

Stop start vehicle are fitted with heavy duty starter motors and EFB batteries to take the extra strain.  I haven't seen any evidence that these starters wear out any quicker than conventional ones.  We don't get many starter failures on this forum at all tbh, the ones that do fail are usually well over 100k.  The starters do cost more to replace if the time comes though, and the batteries are more expensive as well.  But on a new car, it's really not something I think you should be worrying about... :smile: 

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Only turn mine off when in heavy stop start traffic.

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turn mine off every journey if I remember , I don't like it. If I forget to press the button and the engine stops at a junction I panic for a moment as I think something has gone wrong, until I remember what it is. 

I had a Fiat Punto hire car abroad and when I turned it off on that it stayed turned off for the rest of the week.

I suppose I can't expect to have free road tax and to be able to permanently disable the stop / start  (I don't know what the official pollution rating would be if it did not have stop start - it might still have been in the free category)

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I mostly turn mine off. With a Turbocharged engine I was always under the impression that you should allow it to Idle for 10 seconds or so before switching the engine off to allow the Turbo to cool down a bit and prolong its life.

I have driven Turbocharged cars abroad that had aftermarket kits fitted that kept the engine running for a short time after switching off to allow for this.

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25 minutes ago, Tizer said:

I mostly turn mine off. With a Turbocharged engine I was always under the impression that you should allow it to Idle for 10 seconds or so before switching the engine off to allow the Turbo to cool down a bit and prolong its life.

I have driven Turbocharged cars abroad that had aftermarket kits fitted that kept the engine running for a short time after switching off to allow for this.

I've never turned mine off , when stopped at traffic I can hear the electric auxiliary coolant pump working to cool down the turbo, so I guess no need to worry unless you were making super spirited driving before stopping 🙂 

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11 minutes ago, Eng_Ahmad1986 said:

I've never turned mine off , when stopped at traffic I can hear the electric auxiliary coolant pump working to cool down the turbo, so I guess no need to worry unless you were making super spirited driving before stopping 🙂 

Thanks for the info @Eng_Ahmad1986, I did not realise that the new generation of engines has auxiliary coolant pumps. My Titanium has very good sound deafening so I had never noticed any noise.

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My car has the improved sound proofing and also is fitted with acoustic glass and active sound deadening - which stops most engine, transmission and road noise making it hard to keep an ear out for strange and unexpected noises! Technology eh?

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some fords have the electric coolant pump and some don't.  I think on the focus forum there have been some questions about retro fitting it. i think estates had it and hatches didnt or you only got it if it had towing pack specified or something like that. and then later on they started fitting it on all ecoboost which suggested they should all have had it from the start hence people wanting to retrofit it, or something like that. I can't be specific on models/engines but certainly not all stop/start turbo fords have the electric coolant pump.

my understanding on letting turbo slow down before engine turn off was because you didn't want it still spinning fast and then have no oil pressure to the bearings from turning engine off, so it wasn't about heat it was about spin speed versus oil pressure. but i don't guarantee that I am right there, but sounds logical doesn't it?

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I never turn mine off.   I sometimes drive 70 miles up the M1 and when the stop start operates at the far end you can still heat the fan and pumps working.

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2 hours ago, isetta said:

my understanding on letting turbo slow down before engine turn off was because you didn't want it still spinning fast and then have no oil pressure to the bearings from turning engine off, so it wasn't about heat it was about spin speed versus oil pressure. but i don't guarantee that I am right there, but sounds logical doesn't it?

That has also always been my understanding too, as well as the heat issue.  I will still let my engine Idle before switching off.

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Off.... 99% of the time.

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Mines off most off the time, it's the wear on the ring gear that bothers me.

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"it's the wear on the ring gear that bothers me.". I can understand that, I had not really thought of it.

When my father was alive and was a motor mechanic he often had to change the ring gear on customers cars, drill a hole on ring gear edge, then chisel to break it around the hole so the tightness is relieved and it comes off. Heat up new ring gear, put it on the flywheel and then it just stays on by shrinking as it cools.

Not heard of anyone doing this for a very long time, could you even buy a ring gear?  I expect a whole new flywheel would be fitted these days. The old ways of doing things seem to have fizzled out.  Mind you that was in the days of intertia starter motors, pre-engaged starter motors lessened the problem 

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The ring gear is on the DMF...the DMF will wear out far more quickly than the ring gear will!   Either labouring the engine or slipping the clutch will ruin that fairly quickly.  In fact, it's usually the metal dust from a worn DMF that ruins the starter, instead of the other way around.

With regards to the turbo needing to spin down before switching the engine off, by the time you come to a stop it's already spinning slowly enough not to be an issue when the oil pressure drops.  It's not a high revving jap car with a massive BB turbo which is the sort of thing you might fit a turbo-timer to...  If the coolant or oil are very hot the stop-start doesn't operate anyway (end of a fast motorway run for example).  The system is a lot smarter than people seem to think. :smile: 

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I have an auto and in previous autos I have found it to be dangerous in that when you need to pull out quickly, like at a junction with limited visibility, there is a delay as the car has to sart and then apply drive.

However the focus stop start is brilliant.  You can control if it stops by how far you press the brake.  So if I know Im going to be setting off straight away I press lightly and it doesnt stop.  If Im at the lights for 2 minutes I press more and it does stop.

Its the first system I've ever liked.

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2 hours ago, isetta said:

"it's the wear on the ring gear that bothers me.". I can understand that, I had not really thought of it.

When my father was alive and was a motor mechanic he often had to change the ring gear on customers cars, drill a hole on ring gear edge, then chisel to break it around the hole so the tightness is relieved and it comes off. Heat up new ring gear, put it on the flywheel and then it just stays on by shrinking as it cools.

Not heard of anyone doing this for a very long time, could you even buy a ring gear?  I expect a whole new flywheel would be fitted these days. The old ways of doing things seem to have fizzled out.  

That takes me back to the 70s, I was changing ring gear on the street, chiseled the old one off. Put new ring gear in my old mums gas oven and fly wheel in the freezer, flywheel broke the freezer shelf. Mother was not too pleased😒😌

Method worked a treat tho'😁

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Turn mine off 99% of the time unless I know I'm going to be sitting at a junction for more than a minute or so.

I did some tests over a few months when I first got the car and couldn't see any fuel savings worth having.

Whilst I'm sure they are designed to cope with multiple stop/starts it just doesn't feel right to me.

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4 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

With regards to the turbo needing to spin down before switching the engine off, by the time you come to a stop it's already spinning slowly enough not to be an issue when the oil pressure drops.  It's not a high revving jap car with a massive BB turbo which is the sort of thing you might fit a turbo-timer to...  If the coolant or oil are very hot the stop-start doesn't operate anyway (end of a fast motorway run for example).  The system is a lot smarter than people seem to think

I totally agree with that , its a very small turbo , I think it spins down fast enough as you lift your foot off the gas pedal, and actually I like how this engine and turbo is designed , its intended to be a small engine with a small turbo that can give you excellent fuel consumption, yet on the other hand gives you enough power just similar to a NA 1.6 engine but not more when you need it, just the perfect balance between economy and power , but what really bothers me is that you can have ECO and you can have BOOST , but you can't have BOTH at the same time 🤣🤣

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The new 150bhp 1.0 hybrid ecoboost will have a bigger turbo, using the electric motor to bypass the bigger lag created by a bigger turbo.    Dunno what that will mean for spin down town.

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27 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

The new 150bhp 1.0 hybrid ecoboost will have a bigger turbo

Is that going to be the replacement for the current crop of Ecoboost engines?

I'm not that enamoured with the idea of lugging around heavy batteries, surely it will affect the handling quite a bit, even if the performance is similar with extra power and torque.

 

 

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I'm quite interested to see how this turns out. It's going to appear in the new Puma this year, before being rolled out into the Fiesta and Focus. From what I've read so far, there might not be much of a weight penalty with the starter motor being integrated with the generator and I don't think the 48v batteries are that big or heavy.

I wouldn't mind a bit more torque from the Fiesta without necessarily needing 200ps top end and the more unforgiving suspension and seat of the ST, so will keep an eye on this. According to Ford's claims it increases total torque by 20nm, giving up to a 50% torque boost lower down compared to the current versions, so sounds pretty good - if it works. We shall see!😀

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I think at the moment it will be alongside the existing range but I've watched the video from Ford management about their move to mild hybrid, to full hybrid to electric, so I reckon eventually the straight ic engine will go 

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6 hours ago, Blatto said:

Turn mine off 99% of the time unless I know I'm going to be sitting at a junction for more than a minute or so.

I pretty much do the same - turn it off as soon as I start up and pop it on if I know I'm going on a route where I know there are lengthy delays eg a level crossing. As I've mentioned on other threads, if I leave my house in one direction I face 6 sets of lights in the first half mile or so and find it operates briefly a few times and then gives up, presumably to save the battery.

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