BP2411 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Hello everyone! Had my mot yesterday and it failed on handbrake efficiency, I adjusted it inside the drums and it passed but when the handbrake is released the cable doesn't release fully, I've changed every part of the handbrake cable in the last few months but I still have to pull the cable by hand to fully release the shoes. I've had the car 5 years and never changed the springs on the shoes, is it possible they're stretched and need replacing or do I just need to adjust them differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 The brakes are self adjusting so the best way to adjust them is to release the adjuster in each drum ,then drive around the block. Put your foot on the brakes and then pull the hand brake up against the ratchet and lower it until it responds. Adjust the cable to suit . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizer Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 7 hours ago, BP2411 said: Hello everyone! Had my mot yesterday and it failed on handbrake efficiency, I adjusted it inside the drums and it passed but when the handbrake is released the cable doesn't release fully, I've changed every part of the handbrake cable in the last few months but I still have to pull the cable by hand to fully release the shoes. I've had the car 5 years and never changed the springs on the shoes, is it possible they're stretched and need replacing or do I just need to adjust them differently? It is unusual for the Springs to overstretch in normal use unless they have been abused. I'm not sure what you adjusted to get a pass but if it was the Self Adjusters then your problem is most likely to be because the Handbrake Cable is too tight. When it is too tight the Self Adjusters do not work properly. The Lever inside the Drum should rest against its Stop with the Handbrake off once the Self Adjusters are correctly adjusted. This assumes that everything else has been correctly assembled. Too fix the problem, slacken the cable way passed the point that the Lever is resting against its Stop. Then pump the Brakes for ages and it can take ages until the Self Adjusters are fully adjusted, then adjust the Cable until the slack is taken off and the lever is just about 1 or 2 mm from its Stop at most. This will give the Lever in the car more clicks than you may be used to but you should not have any more problems unless you tighten the cable again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 It was the self adjusters I adjusted to get it to pass... I didn't realise they were self adjusting / how to self adjust them. I'll whip the drums off tomorrow, slacken the adjuster all the way, refit drums, pump the brakes and hope for the best. Is that the correct method or have I missed something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 I usually take a trip round the block to reseat the shoes before I adjust them but otherwise that should work out. Please let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 I'll probably be posting pictures and asking for help tbh... I hate brake shoes with a passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Then turn the job over to a professional. There is no shame in that where brakes are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 If tomorrow doesn't go to plan I'll take it to be adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 Do I slacken the handbrake adjuster nut off before starting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Read back through the postings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizer Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, BP2411 said: It was the self adjusters I adjusted to get it to pass... I didn't realise they were self adjusting / how to self adjust them. I'll whip the drums off tomorrow, slacken the adjuster all the way, refit drums, pump the brakes and hope for the best. Is that the correct method or have I missed something? It's the Handbrake Cable that that should be slackened to allow the Self Adjusters, which are there primarily to keep the Shoes very close to the Drum, to adjust fully without interference from the Handbrake Lever, which by the sounds of things is off its Stop, therefore not allowing the Adjuster to work as intended. The fact that when you manually adjusted the Adjuster the Handbrake worked but does not fully retract points to the Cable being the problem. If the Adjusters had been working as intended then you would not have been able to adjust them any more. If what I think is wrong is correct, then you may need to pump the Pedal a lot because the Adjuster only moves a tiny amount at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 So I've just put it on stands, both wheels & hubs off, self adjuster wound back to it's smallest width while still holding the lever (drivers side needed to be wound out a bit more to get the lever to hold) handbrake cable slackened all the way off... And then it started to rain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetta Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 The way I have done the adjusters assuming everything else is good- take drum off. Wind adjesters out so it pushes shoes out. Try the drum, will it go on easily? If yes remove and wind adjusters up slightly more, try again and so on. You want them wound out as far as you can go with the drums still going on and spinning freely. In theory you should not have to do that because they are self adjusting, but they often don’t work as intended so I always do it the manual way. Once drums are on and you have operated the hand brake and foot rake a few times I would then adjust the cable if needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, isetta said: The way I have done the adjusters assuming everything else is good- take drum off. Wind adjesters out so it pushes shoes out. Try the drum, will it go on easily? If yes remove and wind adjusters up slightly more, try again and so on. You want them wound out as far as you can go with the drums still going on and spinning freely. In theory you should not have to do that because they are self adjusting, but they often don’t work as intended so I always do it the manual way. Once drums are on and you have operated the hand brake and foot rake a few times I would then adjust the cable if needed That's exactly how I done them last time because in theory by winding the self adjuster out until the drum just about clears the shoes, I've done majority of the work for the self adjuster however I just tried the foot pedal method and the drivers side is fine but the passenger side is either rubbing with the handbrake off or still spinning freely with it on. The weather isn't helping either, I'm dashing out in between showers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Ok so it works just fine but the passenger's side doesn't self adjust. Take the drums off and examine each side carefully and you should find the reason why in a few minutes. Something will be different, probably seized up, so don't be shy about working the various bits to see if they both move the same way. Most seized parts come apart fairly easily in the drum assembly so you are almost there. Good hunting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizer Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 If they have been off, I have known people to put them on back to front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 I've given up for now, it's irritating me and the weather isn't helping, now the passenger side is done but the drivers side when I apply the handbrake nothing changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Uh? You have swapped the fault to the other side? Then try doing the job the way it was suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 The lever on the 1 side won't stay on the adjuster teeth with the adjuster at it's smallest width, so I have to make the adjuster wider to get the lever to stay in place, otherwise the spring just pulls the lever off the adjuster, I don't think that's helping as the 1 side is having a head start so to speak, it looks like it's about to dry up soon so I'll take both sides completely apart (1 at a time) and then rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 That won't work, of course. Slacken off the cable and the adjusters , replace the drums and let the self adjusting mechanism do what it is designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 I've already tried that but the drivers side self adjuster lever comes off the teeth, the spring just pulls the lever off the teeth unless I wind the self adjuster out a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 The only other thing I can think of is Slacken the cable Set the drivers adjuster so the spring doesn't pull the lever off Measure the drivers adjuster and transfer that measurement to the passenger side Drums on Self adjust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 Just stripped both sides down & rebuilt... Here's what I mean about the adjusters. Passenger side lever sits on the teeth without adjusting. Drivers side either pulls off the teeth or adjusts the length of the adjuster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Right. Reality check. You have had a good look at the brakes and cannot set them up for yourself. You have little experience in doing this. This is one of the car's safety critical systems and you cannot see what you are doing wrong. If ever I find myself in that situation, I put it back together and pay a professional to put it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP2411 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 I have a lot of experience with cars but something is clearly not working, I think, like I first said it's the springs so I'll get a new set, if that doesn't work I'll leave the car in gear 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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