Hi all, I'm new here but been reading the forum for a few months since I bought my Focus 1.0 ecoboost.
When I decided to buy the car I was aware of the cambelt maintenance cost so I took my time to find a reasonably priced example which was driving well. 
Recently the cat died though ( I knew through forscan ), I requested both cat and cambelt replacement at one of the Ford "approved" garages. 
Here is the issue though - they did NOT replace the oil pump belt. 
I mentioned the second belt when delivered the car to them and the consultant only replied that the "cambelt kit" will be supplied which make sense to me to include the pump belt too since they are both wetbelts.
Did I mess up by not specifically say that I want BOTH of them replaced or is it the garage fault for not telling me that ( I'm a customer, not a mechanic )?

2 hours ago, PavN93 said:

at one of the Ford "approved" garages. 

Are you saying that it was a 'Ford Main Dealership' or an independent garage that is a 'Ford specialist' ?

What work does it say was done on the sales invoice ?

2 hours ago, PavN93 said:

( I'm a customer, not a mechanic )?

That comment cuts both ways. Are you implying that the garage should have done everything that in their opinion needed doing ?

If you went back to collect the car and they said "we replaced the oil pump and the water pump as well as the oil pump wet belt and the original cam belt" would you have been willing to pay for the extra work ?

If you gave instructions to replace the cam belt then they did what you asked of them.

3 minutes ago, unofix said:

That comment cuts both ways. Are you implying that the garage should have done everything that in their opinion needed doing ?

If you went back to collect the car and they said "we replaced the oil pump and the water pump as well as the oil pump wet belt and the original cam belt" would you have been willing to pay for the extra work ?

If you gave instructions to replace the cam belt then they did what you asked of them.

It was a Ford/Vauxhall dealership
Invoice only mention cambelt

I don't expect the garage would do everything that needs doing in their opinion, but if the pump belt is just near the cambelt they could at least say "hey, there is another wetbelt, do you want to replace both or you want to pay another £1300 for replacing it later on?"

And YES - I WOULD be able to pay extra money to get it done in one go although this goes down to recommendation which is something an approved dealer did not do at all. 
 

No need to be offensive buddy, I just asked the question. 
When you go to dentist and say that you want your tooth done, do you expect him to tell you that the nearest tooth also need work or wait until it start to hurt? I didn't know what the kit will contain or that oil belt is a separate thing to do if both are "wetbelts". This is what a mechanic is supposed to tell me.

Oh dear oh dear, we do seem to be having a tissy.

It was not my intention to be offensive in any way, but somehow you have managed to find away to take offence. So be it.

1 hour ago, PavN93 said:

And YES - I WOULD be able to pay extra money to get it done

 I NEVER SAID THAT YOU COULDN'T PAY (not sure why you needed to shout). What I said was ....

1 hour ago, unofix said:

would you have been willing to pay for the extra work ?

One further thing that is still puzzling, I've never found one garage that is both a Ford and Vauxhall dealership in the same premises, there are certainly plenty of companies like 'Bristol Street' and 'Arnold Clark' who have multiple garages covering different makes but a Vauxhall technician is not the same as a Ford technician.

 

Not for me to decide whether Ford can go along with Vauxhall or not. This was Ford dealership that had Vauxhalls on other side of the building. It's also not me who call them "approved", hence the quotes, but they themselves claim to be one.

"Willing to pay" is somewhat the same as "being able to pay" to me. Not a big deal both answer as yes, that was not the topic anyway.
I asked a question and got many question in return. Is this how you answer people every day?
Only posted a question so maybe others will be able to benefit from it if I did something wrong. However, if I actually did something wrong then there's no point for specialists if customer need to know how the engine is built.

16 hours ago, unofix said:

I've never found one garage that is both a Ford and Vauxhall dealership in the same premises,

https://www.stoneacre.co.uk/dealership/stoneacre-scarborough

Sorry @unofixbut I tend to agree with Pav on this one. I would have expected the dealer to recommend changing the pump wetbelt at the same time, not expect the customer to have intimate knowledge of the engine.

I have seen before that Ford dealerships only change the main wetbelt as this is the wetbelt that has a prescribed changing interval (the oil pump wetbelt has no prescribed changing interval). Since replacement of the oil pump wetbelt is not prescribed it is also not included in the original timing belt kit.

Removing the sump and replacement of the oil pump wetbelt is an additional job that is not covered by the replacement of the timing belt job.

 

In my opinion it is hard to blame someone in this situation.

I guess it depends if the oil belt is at the same risk of deterioration as the cam wetbelt?

If it's still viable for the life of the engine, then no issues them not recommeding it.

I don't know what's involved in replacement of the cambelt but I guess if it doesn't require removal of the sump it's understandable the garage might not recommend it. However with the recent experience of these engines I'd like to think a good garage would explain the benefit of changing the pump belt and cleaning the pump strainer to at least give the customer the choice.

23 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

I guess it depends if the oil belt is at the same risk of deterioration as the cam wetbelt?

If it's still viable for the life of the engine, then no issues them not recommeding it.

This is one of the questions I forgot to post, thanks for bringing it up here.
I saw in the other topic that oil pump belts are the one that fail more often. I don't remember which topic it was or if this info is accurate but if anyone can tell if this is true, please do. 

 

12 minutes ago, mjt said:

I don't know what's involved in replacement of the cambelt but I guess if it doesn't require removal of the sump it's understandable the garage might not recommend it. However with the recent experience of these engines I'd like to think a good garage would explain the benefit of changing the pump belt and cleaning the pump strainer to at least give the customer the choice.

This is exactly my concern. I can't even tell if they took a look at the oil pump belt and the pump itself to see if it's clogged up. So far I didn't experience any issues but who knows about the future. 

40 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

I guess it depends if the oil belt is at the same risk of deterioration as the cam wetbelt?

If it's still viable for the life of the engine, then no issues them not recommeding it.

I've been trying to spot a recommended interval for the oil pump belt, without success. General impression seems to be its for life (whatever that is) but I'd be interested if anyone has actual info.

It's usual in my experience when discussing a cambelt change with a garage for them to mention anything else they recommend changing while they're in there, to avoid duplicating labour cost - usually the water pump. So I guess if you can change the oil pump/belt separately it might seem reasonable not to mention it.

As Mike says above though, given the story on these engines, which you might expect a Ford dealer or specialist to know, a suggestion to replace the oil pump/belt might not go amiss particularly when even on the recommended change interval the engine will be 10 years old or have done a 6 figure mileage.  

51 minutes ago, PavN93 said:

I saw in the other topic that oil pump belts are the one that fail more often. I don't remember which topic it was or if this info is accurate but if anyone can tell if this is true, please do. 

I'm not sure that's correct.  The usual first sign of wetbelt deterioration is reduced oil pressure from the oil pump strainer getting blocked, but that occurs from the cambelt deterioration as well as oil pump belt.  I've definitely seen more cambelts having broken/stripped than oil pump belts on here.

I must admit, I'm not sure if the oil pump belt is made of the same material or not, but I do know that Ford dealers don't always replace them as a matter of course with the cambelt.  I don't think there's any 'blame' to assign here.  When you talk to the person on the service desk, they're just ticking boxes for 'cambelt replacement' to provide a quote based on Fords own requirement for parts & labour.  They're unlikely to know exactly what's covered and may not even connect that to the wetbelt failures. 

The sump is not removed for cambelt replacement so the oil pump strainer is not checked.  However, the oil pump belt is easily visible with the cambelt cover removed, so I would like to hope they'd give that a quick visual inspection and get the service desk to call you regarding replacement if it looked deteriorated at all.

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

I've definitely seen more cambelts having broken/stripped than oil pump belts on here.

Can't remember seeing a failed oil pump belt thread - but having said that no doubt someone will now post links to dozens!

(Am I just looking back through rose tinted spectacles or do others long for the days when changing an (externally located) oil pump took under 5 minutes and was a matter of removing/replacing 3 bolts and a gasket😀):

https://www.burtonpower.com/oil-pump-x-flow-std-pressure-op02.html

 

13 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Can't remember seeing a failed oil pump belt thread - but having said that no doubt someone will now post links to dozens!

(Am I just looking back through rose tinted spectacles or do others long for the days when changing an (externally located) oil pump took under 5 minutes and was a matter of removing/replacing 3 bolts and a gasket😀😞

https://www.burtonpower.com/oil-pump-x-flow-std-pressure-op02.html

 

Bit before my time, don't think I've worked on anything with an external oil pump!

 

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Bit before my time, don't think I've worked on anything with an external oil pump!

 

Yeah, it's quite a while since I last changed one, tbh! Nice to see they're still available, though - must still be some demand.

FWIW The cambelt I removed from my daughter's car had visibly deteriorated with clear evidence of delamination on the toothed side 

In comparison, there was no obvious deterioration of the oil pump belt, despite running in the same environment.

2 hours ago, RayC333 said:

FWIW The cambelt I removed from my daughter's car had visibly deteriorated with clear evidence of delamination on the toothed side 

In comparison, there was no obvious deterioration of the oil pump belt, despite running in the same environment.

Thanks Ray, it makes me feel a bit better.
Thank you all for the input as well. I guess it's too late for me if there's anything wrong with the pump but hopefully this story will help others in the future.
I'll keep driving for now, unsure about the future. I wanted it to last for the next 5-7 years and then switch to ev.

If you want any more diagrams, let me know.

2 hours ago, PavN93 said:

Thanks Ray, it makes me feel a bit better.
Thank you all for the input as well. I guess it's too late for me if there's anything wrong with the pump but hopefully this story will help others in the future.
I'll keep driving for now, unsure about the future. I wanted it to last for the next 5-7 years and then switch to ev.

No need to feel negative...

1. You've had a key part replaced.

2. You've not had a low pressure warning.

3. You've not had overheating 

4. Any part on any car can fail so don't stress about yours.

5. Millions of these engines run fine if looked after.

In the following years, get it regularly serviced, ensuring the correct oil specification is used each time.

You mention EV's, what issues will they have when they have a bit of mileage/age on them.... fortunately I'll never need to own one 😃