I see with relish VED on EV cars will no longer be zero, well 2025. ALL and i mean ALL road users even cyclist should contribute to the upkeep of the network. Why should us gas guzzlers finance the rest.

Damn, that's the reason I bought an electric car. I was saving £20 a year compared to my Mondeo 2.0 diesel. 

But we do all pay for the upkeep of the roads, we are all taxed. VED monies go directly to the Treasuries coffers, and sit in a huge pool of government owned money to spent how they please. VAT, Council Tax etc gets put towards road upkeep. The changes will not take place until 2025 and will be 'grandfathered' in, so anyone who buys an EV before that date still won't pay. 

44 minutes ago, Jonro2009 said:

so anyone who buys an EV before that date still won't pay. 

until we have a change of government and previous promises are forgotten and anything goes.

47 minutes ago, Jonro2009 said:

But we do all pay for the upkeep of the roads, we are all taxed. VED monies go directly to the Treasuries coffers, and sit in a huge pool of government owned money to spent how they please. VAT, Council Tax etc gets put towards road upkeep. The changes will not take place until 2025 and will be 'grandfathered' in, so anyone who buys an EV before that date still won't pay. 

That's not the case, all EV users will pay from 2025

8 minutes ago, iantt said:

That's not the case, all EV users will pay from 2025

Really, I was under the impression it would be like previous VED changes. 

19 minutes ago, iantt said:

That's not the case, all EV users will pay from 2025

I just had a proper read, rather than listening to my wife who told me EV registered prior to April 2025 would remain exempt. I see it will be £10 for the first year, rising to £165 each year thereafter. Plus the exemption for 'luxury' cars over £40k will also end, adding another £355 per year for the first 5 years. 

I completely understand why this is being done, by the time 2030 comes there will be a ban on any vehicles with an emission rate of >0. Meaning there will be much fewer people paying VED if the exemption continues, so it was always going to happen. 

What I can't understand is how vehicles emitting between 0-110 g/km pay up to £170 (2022/23 figures), but a 0 emission EV will pay £165. I know it's not an emissions tax as such, but surely an EV should be charged the same as the lowest VED amount, which I believe would be £25 per year (2022/23 figures). 

9 hours ago, iantt said:

Damn, that's the reason I bought an electric car. I was saving £20 a year compared to my Mondeo 2.0 diesel. 

I don't understand how your 2.0 diesel will be charged less than a 0 emission EV. What is the figure based on? If it was emissions or weight (increased polution or increased wear and tear) then it would make more sense but it's like they have plucked a figure out of thin air and just added it onto a group of road users who don't pay VED. Which is very likely to be the case to be honest. 

11 minutes ago, Jonro2009 said:

less than a 0 emission EV.

Don't get caught up with the idea the EV's have Zero emissions. There may be no exhaust pipe but when you look at the whole package they have just as many emissions as a great many other vehicles (except Tom's bike which he pushes up hills).

25 minutes ago, Jonro2009 said:

I completely understand why this is being done, by the time 2030 comes there will be a ban on any vehicles with an emission rate of >0. Meaning there will be much fewer people paying VED if the exemption continues, so it was always going to happen.

Yup - it had to come at some point. As the Yanks would say "you do the math".

Oops - am I going to get into trouble for calling USA citizens 'Yanks'??? 

8 minutes ago, unofix said:

Don't get caught up with the idea the EV's have Zero emissions. There may be no exhaust pipe but when you look at the whole package they have just as many emissions as a great many other vehicles (except Tom's bike which he pushes up hills).

Totally appreciate that, but if you look at the whole package of an ICE powered vehicle (transporting fuel to the filling station etc) it's still more 😜 

Serious note though, I know it's not an emissions tax per se. So why is there such a difference on who pays what, it's calculated on emissions but not labeled as such. The joys of taxation, recession and a f""ked up government.

4 minutes ago, alanfp said:

 

Oops - am I going to get into trouble for calling USA citizens 'Yanks'??? 

You should get away with it, I don't think Zuckerberg is here and ready to throw you in a social media black hole for 24hrs 😂

It's not him that I'm worried about - it's the MP who didn't like the Japanese being referred to by an abbreviation!

14 minutes ago, alanfp said:

it's the MP who didn't like the Japanese being referred to by an abbreviation!

Prince Philip never had a problem 🤣

and we won't mention his thoughts on the Chinese ! 😉

Surely the whole VED system needs a rethink (as does Council tax !).

The emissions system has enabled manufacturers to produce good figures under test conditions that are not reproduced in real world driving, thus reducing VED for those vehicles.

Perhaps if VED was proportional to the square of vehicle size and unladen weight, but inversely proportional to payload, we might move away from using enough energy to transport a vehicle weighing tonnes, but only carrying one 70kg person......

10 hours ago, Jonro2009 said:

I don't understand how your 2.0 diesel will be charged less than a 0 emission EV. What is the figure based on? If it was emissions or weight (increased polution or increased wear and tear) then it would make more sense but it's like they have plucked a figure out of thin air and just added it onto a group of road users who don't pay VED. Which is very likely to be the case to be honest. 

No the other way round. My Mondeo was £20 a year. My EV currently £0, but in 2025 will be £165 at today's rates but will be £250 by 2025🤣🤣.

I think pay per mile is the way forward to be fair to all, but was such a backlash last time it was proposed. 

Ved is such a small part of vehicle ownership/ running costs , I don't see why there's such a fuse over£165. 

12 minutes ago, iantt said:

Ved is such a small part of vehicle ownership/ running costs , I don't see why there's such a fuse over£165. 

Yep, depreciation is the big killer imo, yet, as you say, people have angst over VED and the odd mpg also.

20 minutes ago, iantt said:

Ved is such a small part of vehicle ownership/ running costs , I don't see why there's such a fuse over£165. 

Not for low mileage drivers.  A few years ago I was having to limit fuel use to 3 days a week even at 55mpg.

Insurance was about £300 a year. Tax £30 a year.  Fuel was ~£50 a month.

An extra £13 a month on tax would have meant having to stop driving for a whole week each month!

Depreciation is only relevant when you come to sell. 

There's no way I could've run an equivalent petrol Focus or Golf at the time.

44 minutes ago, iantt said:

 

I think pay per mile is the way forward to be fair to all, but was such a backlash last time it was proposed. 

OOOOOH more money for me from the government, i usually do less than 3000 a year recently. Agreed the whole VED needs a revamp, maybe if not per mile then a flat fee for different classes of road users car, van, lorry, artic etc much fairer.

12 minutes ago, iantt said:

No the other way round. My Mondeo was £20 a year. My EV currently £0, but in 2025 will be £165 at today's rates but will be £250 by 2025🤣🤣.

I think pay per mile is the way forward to be fair to all, but was such a backlash last time it was proposed. 

You're right sorry, I misworded my comment 👍 my original thoughts still stand though, what are the government basing the VED charges on?

6 minutes ago, iantt said:

Ved is such a small part of vehicle ownership/ running costs , I don't see why there's such a fuse over£165. 

It is a small part of vehicle ownership, but it's just another payment that we will have to make. As we all know, the little amounts all add up.

8 minutes ago, Jonro2009 said:

what are the government basing the VED charges on?

My impression is that the current charges for cars registered in the last 20 years or so, are based upon emissions and purchase price.  Previously engine capacity.

We all know that a significant selection of manufacturers have set up their cars to produce low level of emissions which are unachievable in the real world, so something has to change.

From a climate point of view, we should be reducing energy use and emissions.  Energy use can be reduced by reducing vehicle weight, and improving efficiency.  Energy provided by fossil fuels generates emissions, so renewables would be preferred.

What we need is a Chancellor with the engineering understanding of Gresley or Stanier (or insert your own favourite engineer!) and the judgement of Solomon.

7 minutes ago, Paulkp said:

My impression is that the current charges for cars registered in the last 20 years or so, are based upon emissions and purchase price.  Previously engine capacity.

Since 2017 all new cars have been a flat rate after the first year*.  Initially £140 a year but it goes up by about £10 each year so now £165.  

*Hybrids get £10 off.  EV's are currently free.  Anything over £40k new costs an extra £300 odd for the first 5 years.

Jon's question is how did they decide on the flat rate of £140 (now £165)...and now I'm intrigued by that as well!!  I thought it was based on an average of how much all new cars paid in 2015, but I can't find any evidence to back that up online now.

18 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Jon's question is how did they decide on the flat rate of £140 (now £165)...and now I'm intrigued by that as well!!  I thought it was based on an average of how much all new cars paid in 2015, but I can't find any evidence to back that up online now.

The government have a very complex algorithm to calculate all types of tax. It relies on a special random number generator which they borrow from the national lottery. 🤣 

2 hours ago, Paulkp said:

What we need is a Chancellor with the engineering understanding of Gresley or Stanier (or insert your own favourite engineer!)

No, Sir Nigel and Sir William are fine by me!😀