I was in attendance when a friend got her broadband installation 'upgraded' by BT to fiber from copper. I just don't understand that in 2024 when this is being rolled out in the whole country, there has been no provision to make it neat.

Is it really beyond imagination to design a single 'box' to conceal all this stuff under one cover, maybe with a hinged lid for easy access? Also, the old phone socket is now connected via a single fiber strand leaving it vulnerable to accidental damage from dusting or such like. So the engineer asked if we had any sellotape which he then applied over the strand sticking it to the wallpaper. (He also asked us for washing up liquid, and paper towels to aid the insertion of the new fiber cable inside the conduit to the house - don't they get their own supplies?)

This isn't an industrial installation, or in a garage. This is in someones prominent hallway where they spent months choosing wallpaper, and shades of paint to warmly greet visitors! I bought some mini trunking to tidy up the wires, but shouldn't an installer do that at very minimal cost?

In addition, she had a specific 'hearing' device connected to her old phone socket so that it sends a signal & vibrated a device under her pillow to alert her of the phone ringing when asleep. She is hard of hearing and wears hearing aids. This is now defunct with a shrug of shoulders from BT guy. They did ask prior if she had an 'alert' device, which she doesn't but no mention was made of any other aid.

Maybe I'm just fussy.

Just my opinion but having had a few experiences of Openreach / sub-contractor engineer visits (fault finding etc.), some of them are really under preassure to do whatever is the minimum and get onto the next job. It tends to be Openreach's direct engineers that are a bit more pro-active than the sub-contractors, but that's not a dig at the sub-contractors, but more of an observation that the Openreach engineers know what they can/can't do without causing too many problems with management above them.

I've no epxerience with alert or assistance devices, but best thing I can suggest is to make sure whoever is your friend's service provider is aware/has it recorded that there are any alert devices/services which may require the old PSTN phone service.

9 hours ago, Zico said:

I've no epxerience with alert or assistance devices, but best thing I can suggest is to make sure whoever is your friend's service provider is aware/has it recorded that there are any alert devices/services which may require the old PSTN phone service.

I was the one that called BT on her behalf to 'negotiate' a new contract, which was forced upon her. She was perfectly happy with her existing BT broadband, and happy with existing BT landline. What she wasn't happy at was that BT upped her monthly payments by £22 as she had fallen out of contract!  (her broadband was a reliable 50 mbs connection)

BT would not renew the contract without changing her landline to 'digital voice', and the only question I was asked was did she have a 'panic type' alarm monitoring system, no mention of anything else.

It's done now, they won't be reinstating the old copper analogue system, and we accept that with advancing technology, doesn't mean an improvement in quality of life. Often, (especially for elderly and those with life issues), it's often a detraction in quality.

Her connection is now 350mbs which is absolute overkill for someone with one laptop, and one smartphone, who checks her emails in the morning, and the evening!

My elderly mum in her mid 80s & I are both registered as 'vulnerable' customers with OpenReach, still with our old fashioned analogue landlines. I'll hold out as long as possible, and BT NI last month stated they have now suspended the roll out of digital voice to vulnerable customers till they have researched further into a more robust solution of when there is a power failure!

Still, a bit of mini trunking has tidied up the new unwanted wall boxes LOL

 

 

 

It pays to shop around for those offering a free install. I've just sacked off virgin due to price hikes and gone to BRSK. Less than i was paying for VM 125 and  Phone service and now have 500GB up and down plus my phone line all for £28 a month guaranteed for 2 years, locked in on a contract. Am more than happy with my experience and BB speeds. If available in your area try them. As an aside They're NOT allowed to remove competitors installations. but they will ask where you want your box withing reason and practicality, luckily i have a corner hidden by a set of drawers with Virgin, BT and now BRSK boxex hidden behind.

3 minutes ago, Jimpster said:

It pays to shop around for those offering a free install....

BT did a free install. She's been with them since having her own house decades ago.

Round here, you see the fibre laid across peoples gardens between the duct on the footpath and the box on the side of the property.......

My brother in Swindon spent a lot of effort tidying up the installation in his property after he went copperless......

On 2/17/2024 at 3:06 PM, StephenFord said:

it is really beyond imagination to design a single 'box' to conceal all this stuff under one cover, maybe with a hinged lid for easy access?

I've edited your quote - no doubt the design was based around 90% of installations, forgetting that 10% is still a very large number....

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Still, a bit of mini trunking has tidied up the new unwanted wall boxes LOL

That is surprisingly effective!  

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

That is surprisingly effective!  

Looks a lot better but as @StephenFord says, why can't they design a replacement that contains all the electrical gubbins and the phone socket all in one box? 

All the necessary cables in one place, a lot neater. Surely it wouldn't take much? 🤷

6 hours ago, Turvey said:

Looks a lot better but as @StephenFord says, why can't they design a replacement that contains all the electrical gubbins and the phone socket all in one box? 

All the necessary cables in one place, a lot neater. Surely it wouldn't take much? 🤷

that involves joined up writing sadly most are only taught to print these days 🤣

14 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I was the one that called BT on her behalf to 'negotiate' a new contract, which was forced upon her. She was perfectly happy with her existing BT broadband, and happy with existing BT landline. What she wasn't happy at was that BT upped her monthly payments by £22 as she had fallen out of contract!  (her broadband was a reliable 50 mbs connection)

BT would not renew the contract without changing her landline to 'digital voice', and the only question I was asked was did she have a 'panic type' alarm monitoring system, no mention of anything else.

It's done now, they won't be reinstating the old copper analogue system, and we accept that with advancing technology, doesn't mean an improvement in quality of life. Often, (especially for elderly and those with life issues), it's often a detraction in quality.

Her connection is now 350mbs which is absolute overkill for someone with one laptop, and one smartphone, who checks her emails in the morning, and the evening!

My elderly mum in her mid 80s & I are both registered as 'vulnerable' customers with OpenReach, still with our old fashioned analogue landlines. I'll hold out as long as possible, and BT NI last month stated they have now suspended the roll out of digital voice to vulnerable customers till they have researched further into a more robust solution of when there is a power failure!

Still, a bit of mini trunking has tidied up the new unwanted wall boxes LOL

Is your friend in receipt of Pension Credit benefits (if they are of pension age) as they may be eligable for the social tarrif from BT?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/costs-and-billing/social-tariffs
https://www.bt.com/broadband/home-essentials

Further to the above, if I recall correctly, the fibre ONT (the new box that has been fitted on the left) did have a battery backup that could be fitted in the past that would help maintain the digital connection / services in a power cut. Not sure if they can still be obtained or requested via BT to Openreach.

Be careful with that fibre connection going into the ONT box, as it looks like it is pulled quite tight. When my fibre was installed a couple of months ago it worked fine for a day, then stopped. Took a few days for Openreach to send someone out, but they identified the issue immediately: the fibre cable was too tight which caused it to be bent at too sharp an angle. Needed that section of line replacing, and they added quite a bit of slack. 

9 hours ago, erictcleric said:

Be careful with that fibre connection going into the ONT box, as it looks like it is pulled quite tight. When my fibre was installed a couple of months ago it worked fine for a day, then stopped. Took a few days for Openreach to send someone out, but they identified the issue immediately: the fibre cable was too tight which caused it to be bent at too sharp an angle. Needed that section of line replacing, and they added quite a bit of slack. 

Interesting, I actually watched him install that box and it is designed internally to have the fiber strand snaked round a pre formed molded template and it looked as if a meter of fiber ended up in a very small amount of space!

The machine he uses to fuse fiber strands together is fascinating to watch. Though he did tell me that that in his home country (Latvia) this is all old technology as they use 'wireless' for all 'fiber' broadband, this cabling stuff is a decade old.

The fiber cable that was dragged into the house was much slimmer than the old copper cable, and I was impressed at the way he joined both cables on the pavement junction box before pulling cable into hallway. Looked like a custom made metal flexible sleeve enveloping the end of the old copper cable, and attached to the new fiber one. Technically it all looked good, just finished off with little care!

10 hours ago, Zico said:

Is your friend in receipt of Pension Credit benefits (if they are of pension age) as they may be eligable for the social tarrif from BT?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/costs-and-billing/social-tariffs
https://www.bt.com/broadband/home-essentials

Further to the above, if I recall correctly, the fibre ONT (the new box that has been fitted on the left) did have a battery backup that could be fitted in the past that would help maintain the digital connection / services in a power cut. Not sure if they can still be obtained or requested via BT to Openreach.

LOL, no,she isn't of an age for pension credits so unable to avail of any 'social' tariffs. My mum is eligible (in her 80s), but it's a moot issue as the only product she has is a BT landline, which she already qualifies for discount as a low user. She'll not be going online.

The main issue I personally have with 'Digital Voice' is that it needs electricity to work, hence during a power cut you have no landline unlike a traditional analogue line which will still work. The battery pack they offer lasts a massive 2 hours, which is useless. (I also don't get a mobile signal at home unless WiFi calling is used), hence on a power cut, I have no comms at all.

Those in urban living will wonder what all the fuss is, but I live in a rural area where I have had 3 x substantial power cuts this year alone!

Thankfully, because of many storms over the winter causing numerous power outages, BT realised that their 'emergency' cover for home landlines was totally inadequate, hence the suspension of Digital Voice roll out here till they find a more robust solution.

Sorry @StephenFord if I misread an earlier post 🙂 .

If you're still able to request the battery backup (if your friend is vulnerable and would benefit from it even if it has a 2-hour capacity) it's better than nothing (and hopefully not at cost to you?).

I'm not sure if it's too late now, but I would have questioned the need for the service to have been 'upgraded' just for a simple re-contract.

I'm vaguely familiar with the Openreach upgrades to the exchanges, but I thought that while existing services would carry on over the existing copper for the present time, it was a stop sell on new services once exchanges were deemed to be changed over to digital only.

As for fibre lines being old hat, I would still prefer wired connections than wireless. Ironically enough, I also thought that actual full fibre (wired) in places like Eastern Europe was more prevalent that the UK as the telecom firms were simply skipping the older FTTC (fibre to cabinets) and rolling out FTTP (fibre to premises) faster than good old Openreach or the Alt Nets in the UK.

I've had wireless broadband in the UK in the past and when it was good it was no different to a wired connection, but when it was bad, it was far worse than even dial-up / ISDN connections, not just on speed, but latency. I'm not sure if the company I used just simply neglected the wireless side of the business as it was probably costing them more, and they started to offer services via new developer full fibre rollouts, a captive market comparable to random groups of properties in the sticks looking for a decent service.

BT policy is that for all new contracts, and renewals, you get, 'Digital Voice'. No intervention on my part was able to change that. They have a deadline for end of 2025 to switch off analogue landlines. A deadline I feel sure will slip.

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

BT policy is that for all new contracts, and renewals, you get, 'Digital Voice'.

So will BT be replacing any analogue equipment that a subscriber may be using at their expense ?

I only ask as I have and automatic emergency dial up system connected to the house alarm. It dials up to three different numbers and can independently play one of three programmed messages. I would be very annoyed to  find that I need to replace this at my expense.

1 hour ago, unofix said:

...I would be very annoyed to  find that I need to replace this at my expense.

Apparently, from stuff I've read, and I've read alot on this topic, yes, it's your responsibility. However, BT advice is for you to contact your alarm company to ensure their equipment is compatible with the digital switchover, and go from there. (On some occasions, BT may supply an adapter for some equipment to work, it's all very wishy washy)

I first learned of this issue over 3 years ago. I tried to lobby 'Age Concern, 'SilverLine' and some local charities, all had no interest as I believe they didn't fully understand the ramifications of such a huge infrastructure change,

I'm glad that the closer to deadline, the more people realise the effect it will have on them individually.

Kinda like government policy on EVs. No one cared a few years back when it was decided, but the closer the deadline looms, the more people realise what it will mean for them...

Digressing slightly off topic, but in my growing cynicism, what I see is organisations only providing services to suit most of the customer base, and ignoring the sometimes sizeable minority. Whether it is a techonolgy supplier that knowingly talks in jargon to baffle the consumer, or organisations having understaffed call centres, where the person you rang for help, cannot do anything because the algorithm that he/she has to follow was written by someone who has not considered all the possibilities, or the concept that incorrect data will at some time occur.

("Please hold the line, your call is important to us")

Water companies, PO/Fujitsu Government and other such (selfish) large organisations do not care one iota for the "small man" the elderly, or the disabled.  They might follow the letter of the law, but that is about it. And they will use the law to stall any satisfactory outcome......

 

31 minutes ago, Paulkp said:

Digressing slightly off topic, but in my growing cynicism, what I see is organisations only providing services to suit most of the customer base, and ignoring the sometimes sizeable minority. Whether it is a techonolgy supplier that knowingly talks in jargon to baffle the consumer, or organisations having understaffed call centres, where the person you rang for help, cannot do anything because the algorithm that he/she has to follow was written by someone who has not considered all the possibilities, or the concept that incorrect data will at some time occur.

("Please hold the line, your call is important to us")

Water companies, PO/Fujitsu Government and other such (selfish) large organisations do not care one iota for the "small man" the elderly, or the disabled.  They might follow the letter of the law, but that is about it. And they will use the law to stall any satisfactory outcome......

 

United utilities point blank refuse to install me a water meter.

50 minutes ago, Paulkp said:

 Whether it is a techonolgy supplier that knowingly talks in jargon to baffle the consumer, or organisations having understaffed call centres...

Case in point is Sky. Use to have a great call center based in Dundee, now it's all outsourced to India. Not only can I barely understand the operator, but the bleed through in noise from adjacent operators make it a real quest to try and get anything sorted.

In addition, Sky will be phasing out their 'satellite' dish service in favour of pure 'streaming'. This means you'll no longer have a box that can hold your recordings, but also you'll no longer have the ability to have an RF outlet to carry a signal to multiple rooms in your house, which currently I have 4 x rooms all enabled with 'magic eye' to main box. I can throw all that in the bin!

When you hear, 'We are introducing these new features to improve customer service...', English translation is, 'we're cutting costs, and couldn't care less about you...'

On 2/21/2024 at 10:57 AM, StephenFord said:

Apparently, from stuff I've read, and I've read alot on this topic, yes, it's your responsibility. However, BT advice is for you to contact your alarm company to ensure their equipment is compatible with the digital switchover, and go from there. (On some occasions, BT may supply an adapter for some equipment to work, it's all very wishy washy)

I thought this might be of interest to those who are in the process of being switched over to digital phone lines.

If your provider is BT the new hubs include a phone socket on the back of them. From the information I have the socket on back actually provides an analogue signal via an inbuilt digital/analogue converter. So even without having internet (which by default you will kind of end up with) you can use existing analogue equipment provided it is connected to the phone socket on the back of the new hub.

 

 

22 minutes ago, unofix said:

...So even without having internet (which by default you will kind of end up with) you can use existing analogue equipment provided it is connected to the phone socket on the back of the new hub.

Sorry, I should have clarified that. Most analogue equipment will continue to work with 'digital' for the reason you state, the new BT SmartHub 2 has a phone socket in it which will convert the digital signal to operate older analogue stuff. On the occasions it doesn't, BT offer an additional adapter to keep you online but it doesn't work 100% If anyone does have a BT router and on looking at the back can't see the phone socket, it is often covered up with a small black sticker to prevent 'accidental' use until you are officially switched over. 

On 2/20/2024 at 8:21 AM, StephenFord said:

the fiber strand snaked round a pre formed molded template and it looked as if a meter of fiber ended up in a very small amount of space

Are you a closet American, Stephen?

1 hour ago, mjt said:

Are you a closet American, Stephen?

It appears my spellchecker is 🤣

You're clearly using the wrong one.