Hi all,

Just had a new gearbox and clutch put into my Focus (2020, manual 1.0L, 24K miles). When driving it away from the garage I immediately noticed the electronic brake didn't release as easily as before. It was tilting the car as the accelerator was pressed rather than just releasing smoothly. I ended up releasing it manually by pressing the handbrake button, thinking it would work itself out. Tried again this morning and the EPB will release but it requires more power than previously and there is a bit of a groan as it does so. 

Has something possibly been dislodged or not replaced correctly during the gearbox/clutch work to cause this? I feel like it's probably a small adjustment to correct, but I'm not clued up on it. Garage is closed til Monday otherwise I'd phone them now, but would appreciate any input in the meantime. Cheers!

The signal to release it comes from releasing the Clutch and pressing the Accelerator, so one of the Clutch position switches may have been dislodged or damaged. Easy to confirm with FORScan or any decent diagnostic tool.

If Cruise Control may also not work if one of the switches is not working.

Ok, thanks. I don't have a FORScan so will see if the garage can rectify it first. It's very annoying how one thing leads to another sometimes!

New gearbox on a 2020?????

How many miles had it done?

On 4/13/2024 at 11:01 AM, T_Focus110 said:

Just had a new gearbox and clutch put into my Focus (2020, manual 1.0L, 24K miles)

 

24k?

Are they that bad?

Soon as I rocked up at the gearbox workshop the guy said 'first or second gear?' Well known issue apparently. Luckily I had a third-party warranty to cover it.

2 hours ago, T_Focus110 said:

Soon as I rocked up at the gearbox workshop the guy said 'first or second gear?' Well known issue apparently. Luckily I had a third-party warranty to cover it.

Did they say what was wrong?. There is a Neutral Position Sensor on the Gearbox but I did not think that manual car needed to in gear for the Handbrake to release.

Edited April 17, 20242 yr by Tizer
Mistake

37 minutes ago, Tizer said:

Did they say what was wrong?. There is a Neutral Position Sensor on the Gearbox but I did not think that manual car needed to in gear for the Handbrake to release.

With an EPB, it will only release when you move off.

4 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

With an EPB, it will only release when you move off.

I think you are wrong about that, this is from my Owners Handbook, your one may be different. If I remember I will check when I'm out tonight.

Note:   The electric parking brake could release if you release the clutch pedal and press the accelerator pedal when the transmission is in neutral.

Never tried it in neutral tbh, I've only ever had it release with seatbelt on and pulling away in gear.

It may just be a warning to absolve them of liability.

24 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

Never tried it in neutral tbh, I've only ever had it release with seatbelt on and pulling away in gear.

It may just be a warning to absolve them of liability.

Irrespective of what the  Handbook says, how can the Release Mechanism get a signal to release the Handbrake only when the car is moving if the car is stationary because the Handbrake is applied, it won't move until after the Handbrake has been released.

That will not even apply if the car is freewheeling because for it to be freewheeling the Handbrake would need to be released in the first place.

I still maintain what I said in post two of this thread.

3 minutes ago, Tizer said:

Irrespective of what the  Handbook says, how can the Release Mechanism get a signal to release the Handbrake only when the car is moving if the car is stationary because the Handbrake is applied, it won't move until after the Handbrake has been released.

That will not even apply if the car is freewheeling because for it to be freewheeling the Handbrake would need to be released in the first place.

I still maintain what I said in post two of this thread.

It must use more than just clutch position though, it may use the ABS sensors too. It never rolls back on hills, so it must know to only release when there is enough force in the direction of travel to not roll the opposite way.

5 hours ago, alexp999 said:

t must use more than just clutch position though, it may use the ABS sensors too. It never rolls back on hills, so it must know to only release when there is enough force in the direction of travel to not roll the opposite way.

I did a little experiment tonight and tried to release the Parking Brake with just the Clutch and Accelerator and it didn't release.

I still can't see how movement can trigger it because if the Wheels are firmly held  as they should be then there will be no signal from the ABS Sensors.

Maybe the Sensors that the Stability Control system uses are utilised, but I reckon that the Neutral Position Sensor is used to detect if the car is in gear and the Clutch is released and the bit in the Handbook quoted earlier is for cases where the Neutral Sensor is faulty and the PCM/BCM/ABS think that the car is in gear when it is not. 

The rear wheels are held. The front wheels can move and with it being front wheel drive there could be a small movement recorded as it tries to pull forward. But yeah any other manner of sensors could be used/combined to work out when to release. 
 

If you’ve ever tried to pull away with a manual handbrake on in a FWD the car will roll on its front wheels and lift the front of the car. 

If Auto Hold is activated as well then that only works on the front wheels so they should not move either until Auto Hold is deactivated.

I'm not sure what deactivates Auto Hold, I thought is was just Clutch and Accelerator taking into account gradient. If I remember tomorrow I will check that out without the Handbrake being activated. 

Auto hold uses abs I’m pretty sure. I activated on my mums focus and it was configured in the abs module. 
 

But auto hold is holding all 4 wheels, it’s just holding the brakes. EPB only holds the rears. You can feel auto hold let go of the fronts when you activate the EPB

3 minutes ago, Tizer said:

If Auto Hold is activated as well then that only works on the front wheels so they should not move either until Auto Hold is deactivated.

I'm not sure what deactivates Auto Hold, I thought is was just Clutch and Accelerator taking into account gradient. If I remember tomorrow I will check that out without the Handbrake being activated. 

Well I can't comment on a manual car but with automatics the EPB and Auto Hold are not both on at the same time. If I bring the car to a stop with the foot brake and release the pedal, then auto hold will apply the front brakes only. If I then apply the EPB the car will release the front brakes once the rear brakes are holding the car.

In either case of EPB or auto hold they will release once I press the accelerator pedal, providing of course the car is in drive. However if the car is parked on a hill with the EPB on, it will not auto release if I try to reverse. The only way to reverse up a hill is to manually release the parking brake by pressing the leaver down.

How does the auto hold only do the front brakes. Surely it’s just holding all 4 like keeping your foot on the brake?

Autohold uses the ABS module, so it can easily just hold 2 brakes instead of all 4, though I don't know if it does.

I can't remember the Mk4 Focus release now, but on my Golf, the EPB will release just by lifting the clutch to a firm bite point where the car starts to bog.  I don't need to touch the throttle pedal at all.

Perhaps it's using a PCM load signal rather than an ABS sensor movement signal?

Auto hold uses all four brakes

Hill start assist uses only front brakes

EPB uses only rear brakes

Thanks for the info Dave. There seems a lot of inconsistency regarding the Auto Hold and whether it is using all 4 brakes or just the front 2.

I was told by the service tech when my car was very first serviced that the auto hold only held the two front brakes. I've tried to get some genuine Ford info on the operation of the system but so far I can find nothing conclusive. There is also the question does it work the same way on a manual compared to an automatic ?

It would be logical that auto hold would use all 4 wheels, but that would require the ABS pump to use more power to maintain the holding pressure than if it was only on two wheels. I'd like to be able to see a Ford technical sheet on how it works just out of pure interest.

All four, technicians haven't got a clue

They can't even explain the difference between "hill-hold" and auto hold

The ABS module replicates the pressure that you put on the foot pedal and holds it there, all four brakes are on

I always thought it was only the front two as well because there is a steep hill with traffic lights at the top where I live and sometimes while waiting at the lights the Handbrake will apply itself after a while, presumably because the Auto Hold is not managing to keep the car from rolling back.

For what it's worth, the EPB seems to have loosened up after this new gearbox & clutch has been run in a bit and now has a similar release to before. The engine auto-off seems to be permanently unavailable with the small symbol showing on the dash, but I can live with that and it may not be connected to the original issue anyway...