Hi all,

Apologies if you're seeing this on a Facebook group too.  I'm really eager to get sorted with a purchase!

 

I’m about to take the plunge into Mk4 Focus ownership and need some advice on engine choice to get us over the line.  We’ll be buying an auto estate, either in Active X or Titanium X.  It’s our only car, currently doing around 15k a year of fairly mixed driving; more school runs and rural roads than motorway runs, although we always get out on some sort of a run on weekends. 

 

Could I have your thoughts / votes for engine choice based on your experiences?  This is where I’m at with it all:

1.0 EcoBoost – pretty much ruled this out.  I do have ownership experience of a 64 plate Fiesta with the 1^st gen of this engine.  Loved it for all the reasons...until it went pop and I was left needing a new engine.  Sounds like they might have addressed reliability issues in this in the latest iteration (?), but I don’t think I want to find out the hard way...plus, poorer mpg in much bigger car, just feels like the wrong engine for purpose, etc, etc.

1.5 EcoBoost – The one with the highest want factor.  Decent performance, would think it’d be much nicer than the diesels, would get me away from potential DPF issues and the like.  Concerned about real-world mpg though...Honest John says 36mpg ☹...true/false?  Mid to low 40s I could probably cope with, what have people’s experiences been here?

 1.5 EcoBlue – Despite the best economy figures, I’ve been told this isn’t the diesel to go for over the 2.0.  Apparently the 2.0 was designed with the auto box in mind, has better driving characteristics and fewer reliability concerns, plus gets much closer to the claimed mpgs in real-world terms.  It would be easier to find a 1.5 EcoBlue example in our spec though, so am I wrong to overlook them?

 2.0 EcoBlue – Test driven one in Titanium X.  Plenty quick, just about refined enough (not the nicest 2.0d ever though), mpg seems fine.  Slight concerns about modern diesel issues (DPF, AdBlue etc) arising from short journey driving (obvs applies to all diesels).  Also, harder / more ££ to find in right spec etc than 1.5. 

 Thanks in advance for your help!

For that sort of driving you'll need a 1.0 EcoBoost for 40-45mpg average.  1.5 EcoBoost will realistically only do around 35-40mpg average.  (Await people telling you the figures they got 'on a run' for the one week of the year they went on holiday.)

1.0 EcoBoost will be the later chain engine, however we are seeing increasing numbers of those failing now, though more so on Facebook than this forum, unsure why that is currently.  Not sure I'd trust one myself now.

1.5 EcoBoost seems the most reliable so far.  But as you say, few of them around and MPG is not as good as you'd expect for the engine size and power output.  

1.5 EcoBlue does decent MPG, at least 50+ with that type of driving.  However they do need very frequent oil changes, either 10k or sooner if the oil quality sensor detects it's degraded, which could be undesirable doing 15k a year.  The later ones get Adblue (from around Autumn 2020) as well as a larger oil sump, which does allow for slightly longer oil changes, though nothing like the 2 years/18k of the petrols in reality.

2.0 EcoBlue uses wetbelts so reliability and maintenance is the main issue there.  Though obviously plenty powerful enough and MPG of around 45-50 average.

 

If I was pushed to choose one of them, it would be the 1.5 EcoBoost for me.  Accepting the increased fuel costs over the increased servicing costs or potential reliability issues of the others.

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

For that sort of driving you'll need a 1.0 EcoBoost for 40-45mpg average.  1.5 EcoBoost will realistically only do around 35-40mpg average.  (Await people telling you the figures they got 'on a run' for the one week of the year they went on holiday.)

1.0 EcoBoost will be the later chain engine, however we are seeing increasing numbers of those failing now, though more so on Facebook than this forum, unsure why that is currently.  Not sure I'd trust one myself now.

1.5 EcoBoost seems the most reliable so far.  But as you say, few of them around and MPG is not as good as you'd expect for the engine size and power output.  

1.5 EcoBlue does decent MPG, at least 50+ with that type of driving.  However they do need very frequent oil changes, either 10k or sooner if the oil quality sensor detects it's degraded, which could be undesirable doing 15k a year.  The later ones get Adblue (from around Autumn 2020) as well as a larger oil sump, which does allow for slightly longer oil changes, though nothing like the 2 years/18k of the petrols in reality.

2.0 EcoBlue uses wetbelts so reliability and maintenance is the main issue there.  Though obviously plenty powerful enough and MPG of around 45-50 average.

 

If I was pushed to choose one of them, it would be the 1.5 EcoBoost for me.  Accepting the increased fuel costs over the increased servicing costs or potential reliability issues of the others.

Superb, thank you.  

Hi James,

Before going for the 1.5 take a look on the German forums. There are many of these engines which developped oil leaks. Since I don't have this engine I did not follow to find out if this was an issue on a particular engine lot or if it is a design flaw in general. On many of the cases this happened under warranty and the dealer tried to fixed it and not always succeeded on the first attempt. What is rather worring is the number of faulty engines compared to the number of total engines on the market. As far as I know there are not many sold (compared to the 1.0) but I do not have the overall figures to make a fair comparisson.

The 1.0 is still a gamble. Will the oil pump belt cause problems or not, remains to be seen. It already started and Ford US admits this belt on the automatic vehicles is flawed by design. No words on the belts on the manual gearbox vehicles.  However, no more cooling issues, water pump has been moved off the accesory belt and has a dedicated belt now and I believe better sealing

 

Not an easy choice. If I would have had all this info from the beginning I might not have chosen it. But, at least for not it is a very nice car with plenty of boot space and very confy for the passengers. The 1.0 125 mhev is very well suited for the estate both in mpg and power (from my point of view of course). 

 

 

I have to disagree with Tom regarding the Petrol Engines, both from my own experience and the official Book Figures from 2018.

There is only about 1mpg difference in the Book Figures between the 1.0 and 1.5, 150 bhp Engines and from my own experience the real life figures will be about the same.

The Automatic versions do not have good Fuel consumption compared to Manual ones, so with your mileage you would be better going for a Diesel one.

I would not recommend a Ford automatic

You will not get the economy out of a 1.0 Auto

The only one I would slightly recommend is the 1.5 Diesel Ecoblue

There are many other manufacturers who make decent autos

Octavia/Golf/Leon Estate

BMW 320i Tourer, X1

Corolla

Etc etc

Thanks all.  

Some very interesting points to consider.  As close as I am to pressing 'go' on this purchase, I am starting to think perhaps I need to sidestep a Focus altogether...such a shame, as it has the tech we need, the chassis is great for keen drivers, so much going for it.  Especially after last time with the Fiesta though, I have to go into this with eyes fully open, and if Ford haven't really upped their reliability game I don't feel so comfortable in parting with the best part of £15k, as good as they otherwise are to drive 😕 

Cue Autotrader searching for Seat Leon Tourers (The 1.5TSI 150 engines sound like a very respectable alternative on first glance).

9 minutes ago, FocusDanielSan said:

Cue Autotrader searching for Seat Leon Tourers (The 1.5TSI 150 engines sound like a very respectable alternative on first glance).

Avoid those as well.  Kangarooing fault and weaker DSG 'box.  I had a 2.0 TSI Leon with the stronger DSG 'box which was a very nice drive.  MPG was much better than the 1.5 EcoBoost as well.  Not sure if they put that engine the Tourers though.

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Not sure if they put that engine the Tourers though.

Funny one that. I would have jumped in and said "yes" but just had a quick trawl around and can't see one for sale. There were certainly a lot of 1.8 tourers around a few years back when I had the 1.8 FR hatch. 

The 1.5 kangaroo fault has allegedly been sorted, but the box is a 7 speed dry clutch which is not as strong as the wet clutch fitted higher up the range. That said, a friend of ours has had a 7 speed dry box in her Audi for 12 years from new with zero issues.

There's always the 300ps 2.0Tsi Cupra Tourer with the stronger box...........😀

16 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Funny one that. I would have jumped in and said "yes" but just had a quick trawl around and can't see one for sale. There were certainly a lot of 1.8 tourers around a few years back when I had the 1.8 FR hatch. 

The 1.5 kangaroo fault has allegedly been sorted, but the box is a 7 speed dry clutch which is not as strong as the wet clutch fitted higher up the range. That said, a friend of ours has had a 7 speed dry box in her Audi for 12 years from new with zero issues.

There's always the 300ps 2.0Tsi Cupra Tourer with the stronger box...........😀

My lad has a 2018 Ibiza FR with the dry clutch DSG, although only a 1.0, but it's been trouble free

As I think Dave mentioned above, Toyota Corolla tourer would also be well worth a look. Autocar magazine are running the commercial version (virtually same thing with the back seats removed) as a long termer and seem very taken with it. I've test driven the hatch and was very impressed. 

18 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

As I think Dave mentioned above, Toyota Corolla tourer would also be well worth a look. Autocar magazine are running the commercial version (virtually same thing with the back seats removed) as a long termer and seem very taken with it. I've test driven the hatch and was very impressed. 

It's a very good car 60MPG all day long in the Hybrid

31 minutes ago, DaveT70 said:

It's a very good car 60MPG all day long in the Hybrid

Yes, the mag are getting that sort of figure from theirs.

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

As I think Dave mentioned above, Toyota Corolla tourer would also be well worth a look. Autocar magazine are running the commercial version (virtually same thing with the back seats removed) as a long termer and seem very taken with it. I've test driven the hatch and was very impressed. 

Well, what I neglected to mention in my post was that what we've been driving (and thus will be trading in) is an Auris Hybrid, albeit a hatchback.  The sensible thing to do would definitely be to fork out and switch to a Corolla Hybrid tourer. 

What's stopping both me and my wife from doing that though is how utterly, soul-achingly boring and dull they are to drive/own.  Yes, they are refined / comfortable enough inside.  Yes, they give us all the conveniences we need.  Yes, they are probably the most economical choice we could possibly make at this price point, same goes for reliability....but we just can't bring ourselves to spend another few years with the same formula of car.  Anything with a CVT now tbh I am discounting straight away.

I have read that they have improved / reduced the harshness of the CVT for the Corollas.  I still don't see how much improvement could be had in that platform to make it at all enjoyable to drive.

Was there anything besides economy you were particularly impressed with in your experience of the hatchback?

14 minutes ago, FocusDanielSan said:

Was there anything besides economy you were particularly impressed with in your experience of the hatchback?

After having (from new) 3x MK1, 4xMK2 & 4xMK3 I found the 2019 MK4 cheap and poorly built, they may be better now, or worse, depending on how much TVM have got hold of it.

Trim creaks and rattles and some falling off, door seals falling off, poor paint quality, thin metal, the bonnet wouldn't open, woeful headlamps, software issues, gearbox (manual) chatter and pulley squeals. 

I have vowed never to have a Ford again

5 minutes ago, DaveT70 said:

After having (from new) 3x MK1, 4xMK2 & 4xMK3 I found the 2019 MK4 cheap and poorly built, they may be better now, or worse, depending on how much TVM have got hold of it.

Trim creaks and rattles and some falling off, door seals falling off, poor paint quality, thin metal, the bonnet wouldn't open, woeful headlamps, software issues, gearbox (manual) chatter and pulley squeals. 

I have vowed never to have a Ford again

 

Appreciate your input.  I am really starting to question putting money down for any of them at the minute.

Did you have many engine troubles with your 1.5, besides the pulley squeals?

6 minutes ago, FocusDanielSan said:

Did you have many engine troubles with your 1.5, besides the pulley squeals?

I've had mine since new and have had zero problems with the Engine or anything else other than having to tweak the rubber bump stops so that the Bonnet closed easily when new. 

My MK4 has been better than my Mk3.

Apart from the door cards that like to vibrate from the bass of the B&O system, it's easily given me less grief and fewer build quality issues than either of my Mk3s.

The 3 cylinder 1.5 ecoboost is used in the Fiesta and Puma ST and is still used in the Kuga and I've not heard of any widespread issues with it.

4 minutes ago, Tizer said:

I've had mine since new and have had zero problems with the Engine or anything else other than having to tweak the rubber bump stops so that the Bonnet closed easily when new. 

How many miles on yours now?  Presumably if you had the choice again you wouldn't change?

1 minute ago, alexp999 said:

My MK4 has been better than my Mk3.

Apart from the door cards that like to vibrate from the bass of the B&O system, it's easily given me leasy grief and fewer build quality issues than either of my Mk3s.

Interesting to hear, thanks.

That B&O system increases the want for a MK4 if I can score one.  My mistake was testing an Active X Vignale; now if I have to tell my wife we're not getting one with the B&O it'll be disappointment straight off the bat!

5 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

 

The 3 cylinder 1.5 ecoboost is used in the Fiesta and Puma ST and is still used in the Kuga and I've not heard of any widespread issues with it.

I only wish I could say the same.  Some horror show warnings & stories out there about them for sure.  Just hard to know if the most recent design changes have improved things or not. 

1 minute ago, FocusDanielSan said:

I only wish I could say the same.  Some horror show warnings & stories out there about them for sure.  Just hard to know if the most recent design changes have improved things or not. 

Just make sure you don't mix up the 4 cylinder 1.5 ecoboost issues.

1 minute ago, FocusDanielSan said:

How many miles on yours now?  Presumably if you had the choice again you wouldn't change?

I've only done not much more than 20,000 miles, I got it just before Covid.

I would buy another but they stopped doing that Engine.

I did have a Mk2.5 Diesel before and I think that was a better car because it had Independent Rear Suspension, my Mk4 should have had that but Ford changed the rules just before my car was built, and the Mk2.5 had Electro/Hydraulic Steering which was not only better but you could set it to Stiff if you wanted. 

The Electric Steering is apparently better on the Mk4 than the Mk3 but far too light for my personal preference.

1 minute ago, alexp999 said:

Just make sure you don't mix up the 4 cylinder 1.5 ecoboost issues.

Very good point!

4 minutes ago, FocusDanielSan said:

I only wish I could say the same.  Some horror show warnings & stories out there about them for sure.  Just hard to know if the most recent design changes have improved things or not.

As Alex said, people may be getting the Engines mixed up.

The only change in the Engine that I know about is that the Balance Shaft arrangement was changed 3 months after the Mk4 came out, meaning the Oil Pump Drive was changed to a Wet Belt.