2012 Ford focus1.6 tdci 

10 teeth stripped off the timing belt, rocker cover stripped off and all 8 rocker fingers were broken, lifters all look ok and top of all valves look ok with camshaft out. How likely is it that the valves are bent or seat damaged? Fingers have been replaced new belt timed up. 2 notches on the fuel pump sprocket so guessed which one it was that is a guide for timing as I heard this engine it doesn’t matter if it’s timed or not?  Fuel is up to the injectors on cranking but will not fire. Will not start on a tow or spraying brake cleaner in as a catalyst 😂 It doesn’t sound like there is no compression and it sounds like it wants to start. Comes up with a fuel pressure regulator exceeded limits - pressure too low. 
 

This happened to my Focus with the 1.6 DV6C engine. The cambelt didn't snap, but it stripped all the teeth on the belt. When I looked into, I found out that the lugs are sweated onto the cam rather than the cam being milled. This means that they can move and when I put the new cam next to the old one, it was well out. Probably not the news you want, but you'll probably need to replace the cam.

5 minutes ago, Nathan Buffery said:

This happened to my Focus with the 1.6 DV6C engine. The cambelt didn't snap, but it stripped all the teeth on the belt. When I looked into, I found out that the lugs are sweated onto the cam rather than the cam being milled. This means that they can move and when I put the new cam next to the old one, it was well out. Probably not the news you want, but you'll probably need to replace the cam.

Yeh I went for the cheapest option first as I bought the car off a friend on a whim that it might be ok as they snap for a reason before a damaging the valves. I guess I’ll invest in a cam, or at least have a look at the lobes before I buy one. 
Thanks for the reply 

There was another member a few months ago with a similar issue.  New belt and rocker arms but then it locked up when turning over.  Wasn't diagnosed any further due to lack of time.  I don't think I'd recommend risking it on this particular engine again.

25 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

There was another member a few months ago with a similar issue.  New belt and rocker arms but then it locked up when turning over.  Wasn't diagnosed any further due to lack of time.  I don't think I'd recommend risking it on this particular engine again.

It turns over by hand ok and by key but just doesn’t fire up, I will look into cam issue and compression test. Easy enough to strip down to inspect the cam again 

On mine, all the rockers we broken and 7 valves were bent. Head off and new valves, head skimmed, new rockers, new cam, cam belt, water pump. The engineers skimmed the head and reseated the valves, but I did all the rest. I think it came in at around £650. I did look at used engines but a low milage one was around £1000, and then I'd still do the cambelt.

Whilst the head was off I put a telescopic magnet down the oil ports and the ***** magnetic head came off. So I had to take the sump pan off to retrieve it. But I found several of the little rollers from the rockers in the sump, so it was a blessing really. 

8v DV6s can be picked up for less than £500 now, they were put in loads of cars in the 2010's.  I wouldn't be too bothered about the mileage if you're doing the belt anyway.

Interesting how times change though.  These were sort of based on the 2.0 HDi that Peugeot first released in 1999.  Around 10 years later the engines were pretty much worthless.  I scrapped a few of them.  And even bought an entire rear ended car for £250 to break for parts.  The engine in that one was too good to scrap.  So I bought another car with a good chassis but a snapped cambelt to put that engine in!  

48 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

8v DV6s can be picked up for less than £500 now, they were put in loads of cars in the 2010's.  I wouldn't be too bothered about the mileage if you're doing the belt anyway.

Interesting how times change though.  These were sort of based on the 2.0 HDi that Peugeot first released in 1999.  Around 10 years later the engines were pretty much worthless.  I scrapped a few of them.  And even bought an entire rear ended car for £250 to break for parts.  The engine in that one was too good to scrap.  So I bought another car with a good chassis but a snapped cambelt to put that engine in!  

So I’m realistically looking for an engine if I don’t fancy the strip down, I’m guessing the valves probably have been bent even tho it doesn’t feel like they are touching. 

4 minutes ago, Robf1986 said:

So I’m realistically looking for an engine if I don’t fancy the strip down, I’m guessing the valves probably have been bent even tho it doesn’t feel like they are touching. 

The valves on the 8v 2.0 were flat, so they generally just broke rocker arms with a straight upwards force, which is why I've recommended just changing the arms on these 8v 1.6's to previous members.  However, I now think the valves may be slightly angled on the 8v 1.6, which would explain why they bend when hit by the piston.  Though I'd say Nathan was unlucky to get 7 bent valves.  I can only assume the belt failed at high RPM for the cam to continue turning at such speed.  Usually it'd stop pretty quickly and you'd only get 2 or 3 valves hit.  Or maybe the friction of the belt was enough to keep turning the cam even without any teeth.

You can check the cam lobe angles without removing the cam.  They're all at 90 degrees to each other as far as I remember, which can be seen from above.  That should show whether both valves are closed on the compression stroke on each cylinder or not.  (Although if they're bent, they won't fully close, despite the cam position)

It probably is worth checking the cam.  And if that looks ok then doing the compression test, as both are fairly quick and easy.  But if it's not the cam then yes, I would say a replacement used engine is the best option.  These are pretty reliable in general so buying used should be fine.

21 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

The valves on the 8v 2.0 were flat, so they generally just broke rocker arms with a straight upwards force, which is why I've recommended just changing the arms on these 8v 1.6's to previous members.  However, I now think the valves may be slightly angled on the 8v 1.6, which would explain why they bend when hit by the piston.  Though I'd say Nathan was unlucky to get 7 bent valves.  I can only assume the belt failed at high RPM for the cam to continue turning at such speed.  Usually it'd stop pretty quickly and you'd only get 2 or 3 valves hit.  Or maybe the friction of the belt was enough to keep turning the cam even without any teeth.

You can check the cam lobe angles without removing the cam.  They're all at 90 degrees to each other as far as I remember, which can be seen from above.  That should show whether both valves are closed on the compression stroke on each cylinder or not.  (Although if they're bent, they won't fully close, despite the cam position)

It probably is worth checking the cam.  And if that looks ok then doing the compression test, as both are fairly quick and easy.  But if it's not the cam then yes, I would say a replacement used engine is the best option.  These are pretty reliable in general so buying used should be fine.

Ok thanks for the advice much appreciated 👍🏻 I’ll have a look at the cam when this rain stops!

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Though I'd say Nathan was unlucky to get 7 bent valves.

Probably due to me not realising the cambelt had stripped and me still trying to start it!!! 

15 minutes ago, Nathan Buffery said:

Probably due to me not realising the cambelt had stripped and me still trying to start it!!! 

I've done exactly the same in the past.  

However, once the cam stopped turning, no more valves should have opened.  So turning the crank on the starter shouldn't matter by that point.  It is possible the belt still had enough friction to rotate the cam slowly on the starter even once the teeth had stripped though.

3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

I've done exactly the same in the past.  

However, once the cam stopped turning, no more valves should have opened.  So turning the crank on the starter shouldn't matter by that point.  It is possible the belt still had enough friction to rotate the cam slowly on the starter even once the teeth had stripped though.

This one still had enough to turn the whole engine, cam was only about 5 teeth out unbelievably form it’s mark. But they had flattened the battery trying to start it over and over for ages so maybe that’s done the damage 

Took the rocker cover off this morning, looks like cylinder 1&3 cam lobes are roughly 180 degrees out whereas 2&4 look roughly 90 degrees 

don’t know how I didn’t realise first time of stripping it down 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

On 9/16/2024 at 12:08 PM, Robf1986 said:

don’t know how I didn’t realise first time of stripping it down

To be fair, it's not something that I've come across before. I was under the impression that all camshafts are made out of 1 piece of metal. It's only when I put the new cam next to the old one that it was apparent. 

13 minutes ago, Nathan Buffery said:

To be fair, it's not something that I've come across before. I was under the impression that all camshafts are made out of 1 piece of metal. It's only when I put the new cam next to the old one that it was apparent. 

I’d not heard about it before either, if it’s designed to help lessen the damage then fair enough but I can’t even compression test it until the camshaft is done anyway

Rob

Whilst you are wait for a replacement cam it would be wise to remove the head and then you can see if there is any other damage.

Finally got round to fitting the new camshaft after a few busy weeks, 4 of the loves had been spun round. I might put the lotto on as the car started up right away with no knocks or bangs, needs a decent road test now tho to makes sure all is ok. Hopefully one of the lucky ones! Thanks again to everyone who had an input 👍🏻