Hi all,

I'm not a Ford owner but my son has had one for a year and has just hit some difficulties.  I said I'd give him a hand so here I am.

He has a 2009 TDCI 1.6 MK7.  Two days ago the car refused to start.  He has the bladeless key fob x 2.  Both keys unlock the doors fine, but when he hits the start/stop button with the clutch in there is no ignition, not even a click. What I presume is the immobiliser light (red and sits under the mileage display)  keeps steadily flashing.    Here's what we've tried so far:

1. Charged battery fully
2. Tried holding the keyfobs against where the ignition key would go - didn't work
3. Got a mobile key guy in to check if the keys were good - he said all keys were working as they should be and suggest either relays / fuse issue
4. Checked all fuses and relays - all good
5. Replaced 3 of the relays relating to the ignition just to be sure
6. Replaced the Start/Stop button with a new one
7. Plugged in ODB2 reader but not getting much back as we can't put the ignition on

I'm now drawing blank and I'm not sure what else to try.  I'm probably clutching at straws here but the next steps are:

1. Buy an ELM327 ODB2 reader and try Forscan to get an idea of what the car is reporting (Not sure if this would work as we can't get ignition on)
2. Replace clutch switch (wondered if this is what was stopping the car starting?)

He's a student and his last option would be to take it to a stealership, but we're trying to avoid that if we can.

 

Has anyone else had/heard of any issues like this and can offer some advice?

TIA

 

 

Have a read of this post. The car is of the generation that a faulty instrument cluster is very common (had one myself) and can cause all sorts of random electrical gremlins...

EDIT

Just realised you have a Fiesta (not Focus), unsure if same fault exists with Fiestas, someone more sensible should be along soon...

 

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

unsure if same fault exists with Fiestas, someone more sensible should be along soon...

the guy who knows is @rd457

You really need to use FORScan and see if there are any 'U' codes stored. The fact that the immobiliser light is just flashing at its normal steady flash suggests that it is not the problem. If it was unhappy with the key it would flash a sequence that would be an immobiliser error code.

PS; Please amend your profile, it's very confusing. I'm fairly sure that you don't have a Ford Model: Wetton

I've had four MK7 Fiesta clusters sent to me, they don't seem to suffer from the cracked connector joint problem, just as with the MK6 ones. Not had any luck with either type I'm afraid.

2 hours ago, symbol-soup said:

Checked all fuses and relays - all good

The passenger footwell ones too, not just the engine bay ones?

2 hours ago, symbol-soup said:

Buy an ELM327 ODB2 reader

Don't do that, ELM327 devices are old hat, get an ODBLink Ex or vLinker FS or one of the bluetooth versions.

vLinker devices for use with FORScan.

On 4/7/2024 at 8:59 PM, unofix said:

FORScan (for use with Windows Laptop) : https://forscan.org/download.html

It's what many Ford owners use including some Ford technicians.

vLinker FS, cable for laptop: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-vLinker-Adapter-FORScan-MS-CAN/dp/B0952P4MLP

vLinker FD, for android phone: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-Bluetooth-vLinker-Scanner-Diagnostic/dp/B08H82WC8L

vLinker FD+, for iPhone: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-Bluetooth-vLinker-Scanner-Diagnostic/dp/B08H8JHWP2

 

Search Tag:   FORScan123

 

Have you tried pressing the button without pressing the clutch?  The ignition should come on without the engine doing that.

I would have suggested the start button being at fault, but as you've already tried that, it's likely to be the module that the button is wired to, which I think is the BCM.

2 hours ago, unofix said:

the guy who knows is @rd457

You really need to use FORScan and see if there are any 'U' codes stored. The fact that the immobiliser light is just flashing at its normal steady flash suggests that it is not the problem. If it was unhappy with the key it would flash a sequence that would be an immobiliser error code.

PS; Please amend your profile, it's very confusing. I'm fairly sure that you don't have a Ford Model: Wetton

Profile now changed.

1 hour ago, rd457 said:

I've had four MK7 Fiesta clusters sent to me, they don't seem to suffer from the cracked connector joint problem, just as with the MK6 ones. Not had any luck with either type I'm afraid.

The passenger footwell ones too, not just the engine bay ones?

Don't do that, ELM327 devices are old hat, get an ODBLink Ex or vLinker FS or one of the bluetooth versions.

Yes, I went through both fuse boxes, passenger footwell and engine bay. Thanks for the info on the newer devices, I'll get one ordered. Will they be able to read the ECUs even if I can't get it to the ACC stage?

23 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Have you tried pressing the button without pressing the clutch?  The ignition should come on without the engine doing that.

I would have suggested the start button being at fault, but as you've already tried that, it's likely to be the module that the button is wired to, which I think is the BCM.

Clutch in or out, I get the same result. Absolutely nothing 

Just now, symbol-soup said:

Clutch in or out, I get the same result. Absolutely nothing 

Ok.  I don't think you'll get a code reader to connect without the ignition being on.

If someone has wiring diagrams for these then we can double check that the button only goes to the BCM.

One odd question - is anything plugged into the cig lighter ports?  And does the car have an aftermarket stereo?

4 hours ago, symbol-soup said:

• Buy an ELM327 ODB2 reader and try Forscan to get an idea of what the car is reporting (Not sure if this would work as we can't get ignition on)
• Replace clutch switch (wondered if this is what was stopping the car starting?)

1. No ignition 'on' will mean that no type of code reader will work. It needs power, and to be able to read the Canbus (both high, and medium) for them to get the DTC's.
2. Clutch switch can be ruled out. If it was that then the ignition would come on as normal, only that the engine would not crank.

See... I told you more sensible people will be along 😂

29 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Ok.  I don't think you'll get a code reader to connect without the ignition being on.

If someone has wiring diagrams for these then we can double check that the button only goes to the BCM.

One odd question - is anything plugged into the cig lighter ports?  And does the car have an aftermarket stereo?

No, nothing plugged in and it's the stock stereo. 

26 minutes ago, unofix said:

1. No ignition 'on' will mean that no type of code reader will work. It needs power, and to be able to read the Canbus (both high, and medium) for them to get the DTC's.
2. Clutch switch can be ruled out. If it was that then the ignition would come on as normal, only that the engine would not crank.

Crap, that rules out doing any diagnostics then. 

I only have the full schematics for the Fiesta Mk7 2012 model, but it will be very similar.

The ignition and start signals all go via the "Remote Function Actuator" module/connector which is on the floor under the drivers seat on RHD models.

See attached.

Check under the drivers seat. You need to get right underneath and get a good look, use a torch. Check the connector is fully seated and that it is not wet. Water ingress to either the connector or module will cause major problems.

Also connectors like these are prone to getting kicked by rear seat passengers with big feet 😉

The Fiesta Mk7 2012 full schematics are available to download from my Google drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ihIaePo0_qs8laEvfOIAj_FREj2N81DC/view?usp=sharing

1 hour ago, unofix said:

Check under the drivers seat. You need to get right underneath and get a good look, use a torch. Check the connector is fully seated and that it is not wet. Water ingress to either the connector or module will cause major problems.

Also connectors like these are prone to getting kicked by rear seat passengers with big feet 😉

The Fiesta Mk7 2012 full schematics are available to download from my Google drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ihIaePo0_qs8laEvfOIAj_FREj2N81DC/view?usp=sharing

This is great, thank you. I'll take a look tomorrow and feedback any findings. Thanks for all the help, it's really appreciated. 

16 hours ago, unofix said:

I only have the full schematics for the Fiesta Mk7 2012 model, but it will be very similar.

The ignition and start signals all go via the "Remote Function Actuator" module/connector which is on the floor under the drivers seat on RHD models.

See attached.

I've just accessed the RFA and it all looks remarkably clean and dry.  I can't see anything obviously wrong and everything felt securely seated.   In my very non-technical head I'm thinking my next steps would be to check continuity but that seems like a pretty big task and I'm not sure how long it would take.  Anyone have any thoughts on keeping going as I'm losing the will to live 🙂    

It looks like my son has answered my question above.  He has decided that he wants to get rid of this and buy a MK6 ST 🤣  Once he's checked the insurance and finished crying I'll convince him of something more suitable.

 

I just wanted to say thanks for the assistance you've all given and if anyone wants a REALLY cheap non-running 2009 1.6 TDCI let me know. 

Next check should be voltage at the button (pins 3 & 4).  Looks like it has a shared ground so if the button is illuminated then that would prove the ground as ok.

1 hour ago, symbol-soup said:

if anyone wants a REALLY cheap non-running 2009 1.6 TDCI let me know.

If you were 300 mile closer I'd be happy to take a look, or even make you an offer.

You should perhaps get an auto-electrician to take a look at it. Even if that costs a couple of hundred, you will get a much better price for a 'running' car.