Hi Folks!

Let’s talk brakes! – they are sometimes viciously sharp but not always. It’s the inconsistency of them that scares me the most, as they can behave quite differently at different times. Therefore, I’m never really relaxed driving the car. Which, is a shame because the car has many positive qualities.

Has anyone noticed if the regenerative braking (and the brakes in general) are any less harsh when in driving in ‘Eco Mode’? Would appreciate your thoughts on this, particularly if you tend to drive in Eco Mode on a daily basis.  

Graham

I have a feeling of reading this exact same thing only a day or so ago. 

43 minutes ago, unofix said:

I have a feeling of reading this exact same thing only a day or so ago. 

Here, possibly?😀

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/158124-2021-fiesta-mhev-brakes-and-regenarative-breaking/#comment-1087704

 

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Here, possibly?

Ah!!

It would appear that your reply wasn't what Graham wanted to hear 🤣

3 hours ago, unofix said:

I would appear that your reply wasn't what Graham wanted to hear

I think there's a lot about modern cars that most of us would prefer not to hear, tbh!😀 

First day the fog's cleared for a while so popped out for a walk this morning. Everyone seems to be at home round the village today, and it emphasised just how many older cars there are around. I get the vibe that, company car users apart, a lot of people are just not interested in swapping to a newer car. In one cul de sac, there were 3 new EVs, then the newest "other" car was a 65 plate, oldest a 56 plate Focus. 

Of people I know who have changed recently, "wish I hadn't" or " I preferred my old one" are common comments. One of my neighbours is a case in point. They habitually swapped both their cars (Golf and Polo) every 3/4 years. When the Mk 7 Golf was replaced he just stopped. Same thing when the Polo got a facelift and swapped its real buttons for "haptic" pads.

After all the genuine progress that has been made with vehicles over the 50+ years I've been driving, it is hard to accept that their modern counterparts are in many ways inferior to what went before, as is apparent from many posts on here.

You “reading the exact same thing only a day or so ago” is a bit of a stretch unofix. You seem to have engaged in selective reading. Other than the first part of my post, which was necessary to give context. I asked a different question. As said, I’m new to the forum so still finding my feet. Are you an administrator?  

On the contrary, Roger was very helpful and I appreciated him sharing his knowledge and opinions in a straight forward and honest way. Which, is exactly what I wanted. Besides, with respect, how would you know “what I wanted to hear”? 🤣

9 hours ago, unofix said:

Ah!!

It would appear that your reply wasn't what Graham wanted to hear 🤣

On the contrary, Roger was very helpful and I appreciated him sharing his knowledge and opinions in a straight forward and honest way. Which, is exactly what I wanted. Besides, with respect, how would you know “what I wanted to hear”? 🤣

11 hours ago, unofix said:

I have a feeling of reading this exact same thing only a day or so ago. 

You “reading the exact same thing only a day or so ago” is a bit of a stretch unofix. You seem to have engaged in 'selective reading'. Other than the first part of my post, which was necessary to give context. I asked a different question. As said, I’m new to the forum so still finding my feet. Are you an administrator?  

If you don't wish me to contribute to your threads that's not a problem. Carry on I'm sure you will manage without my input.

One last comment before I press the button to ignore all future posts from you, grow up and get a pair of big boy trousers !!

Hi Graham and welcome to the forum.

I've only driven a MHEV for a couple of miles and I didn't experiment with different modes so I can't really answer this question or your other question on the other thread.

But I hope you get used to it however it is, and you can experiment and make your own mind up as to whether / how the mode makes a difference. It took me several months to get used to the different braking feel on my Mondeo compared with my previous Focus (which I had driven for 100k miles!).

1 hour ago, unofix said:

If you don't wish me to contribute to your threads that's not a problem. Carry on I'm sure you will manage without my input.

One last comment before I press the button to ignore all future posts from you, grow up and get a pair of big boy trousers !!

Oh dear unofix, I seem to have upset you a little. I didn’t say that I didn’t want you to contribute to my threads. Through your own admission (above) it’s actually you that has decided to “ignore” them? Which, is absolutely fine with me. As I’ve said, I’m new to the forum and still working out who is genuinely interested in sharing knowledge and experience and who is just using it as an opportunity to sarcastically demean the contributions of others.        

Your last comment –

“One last comment before I press the button to ignore all future posts from you, grow up and get a pair of big boy trousers” – is very predictable and again speaks volumes.  

1 hour ago, alanfp said:

1 hour ago, alanfp said:

Hi Graham and welcome to the forum.

I've only driven a MHEV for a couple of miles and I didn't experiment with different modes so I can't really answer this question or your other question on the other thread.

But I hope you get used to it however it is, and you can experiment and make your own mind up as to whether / how the mode makes a difference. It took me several months to get used to the different braking feel on my Mondeo compared with my previous Focus (which I had driven for 100k miles!).

 

Hi Al, thank you for your warm welcome, it’s much appreciated.

Yes, I’m sure you’re right about me needing to adapt to my MHEV Fiesta. To be honest, if I stick with it (which I will need to) I’m sure I will do. To be honest it’s my wife I’m most concerned for. She’s a nervous driver at the best of times (bless her!) and hasn’t tried driving it yet. I know that the first time she experiences the inconsistency of the brakes, I’m sure it will be the last time she drives it at all! That’s why I wondered if anyone had experience with using the ‘Eco Mode’ for everyday driving and whether that was in their experience any less fierce than the other settings.

Thanks for getting back

Graham   

I've had another quick look back on threads from when the MHEV was first introduced. Not a lot is said about the braking, but where mentioned the consensus seems to be it is fiercer in Sport.

It may be that you simply have to try driving a decent time in each mode and see what you prefer, though I can understand your problem if you share the car. My wife has flatly refused to drive mine, fortunately she has her own!😀

15 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I've had another quick look back on threads from when the MHEV was first introduced. Not a lot is said about the braking, but where mentioned the consensus seems to be it is fiercer in Sport.

It may be that you simply have to try driving a decent time in each mode and see what you prefer, though I can understand your problem if you share the car. My wife has flatly refused to drive mine, fortunately she has her own!😀

Hi Roger,

Thanks for that. Yes, you’re right and I’ve decided to do just that. It’s been in ‘sports mode’ all day although unfortunately I’ve not been able to do a lot of mileage with it. My plan is to do at least 30 miles of ‘mixed driving’ in each mode, then change to the next setting. I already have some idea regarding ‘Normal Mode’ but (in the main) just in slow traffic/ town driving.

As I say 30 miles of mixed driving in each mode will help me make a better judgment, as to which setting I suggest my wife uses on her first drive out in it. I’m hoping there’s a marked difference? ‘Sports mode’ is interesting and I dare say I think I could quite get to like it, ha! although it’s definitely not for the Mrs on her maiden voyage.

Logically, if Sport Mode is considered as being fiercer, Eco Mode should be less so, at least when it comes to the ‘regenerative braking’. As for the standard braking system, I’m going to get them checked out anyway because it has occurred to me that the rear shoes may be worn and consequently the adjusters on the shoes may not be operating as they should (apparently this is a not too uncommon problem with some Fiestas). Therefore the majority of the braking goes to front of the car. Which, is what it sort of feels like       

Thanks to the advice, experience and shared opinions of people like yourself, I have at least established that the car and the regen seems to be operating as it should. Which, was something I wasn’t too sure about when I first posted on the forum. It was all new to me and I wasn’t that sure whether the car we bought was harbouring a problem of some kind.

Thanks again for your support

Take care

Graham

8 hours ago, Graham Wood said:

Therefore the majority of the braking goes to front of the car. Which, is what it sort of feels like       

I doubt there'll be an issue with the rear brakes, tbh, unless you feel there's a problem - e.g. handbrake not holding. 

I don't know the exact figures for the Fiesta, but with FWD cars in general 60-80% of the braking is done by the front wheels. The rears do little more than steady the car in normal braking.

15 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I doubt there'll be an issue with the rear brakes, tbh, unless you feel there's a problem - e.g. handbrake not holding. 

I don't know the exact figures for the Fiesta, but with FWD cars in general 60-80% of the braking is done by the front wheels. The rears do little more than steady the car in normal braking.

Hi Roger,

No, the handbrake holds fine. I guess i'm just 'grasping at straws' 🤔 The more i think about it you're probably right. Went for a drive today (about 15 miles) and for the first time i actually really enjoyed it because i said to myself before setting off 'it is what it is' okay the brakes are sharp and can be unpredictable. But so what? 😂 👍

9 hours ago, Graham Wood said:

But so what? 

Indeed. Both my non-MHEV Mk 8s have been a little variable - sometimes "snatchy" sometimes not, particularly when not used for a few days. I think you'll find you do acclimatise over time. 

I do suspect that this is the issue rather than the regen effect (which has always seemed more akin to "engine braking" to me).

It's still a bit annoying compared to how things used to be, but that's the case in many areas these days (see the "Things I don't like" thread on here!😀

On 12/30/2024 at 12:58 AM, Graham Wood said:

Hi Roger,

 

Thanks for that. Yes, you’re right and I’ve decided to do just that. It’s been in ‘sports mode’ all day although unfortunately I’ve not been able to do a lot of mileage with it. My plan is to do at least 30 miles of ‘mixed driving’ in each mode, then change to the next setting. I already have some idea regarding ‘Normal Mode’ but (in the main) just in slow traffic/ town driving.

 

As I say 30 miles of mixed driving in each mode will help me make a better judgment, as to which setting I suggest my wife uses on her first drive out in it. I’m hoping there’s a marked difference? ‘Sports mode’ is interesting and I dare say I think I could quite get to like it, ha! although it’s definitely not for the Mrs on her maiden voyage.

 

Logically, if Sport Mode is considered as being fiercer, Eco Mode should be less so, at least when it comes to the ‘regenerative braking’. As for the standard braking system, I’m going to get them checked out anyway because it has occurred to me that the rear shoes may be worn and consequently the adjusters on the shoes may not be operating as they should (apparently this is a not too uncommon problem with some Fiestas). Therefore the majority of the braking goes to front of the car. Which, is what it sort of feels like       

 

Thanks to the advice, experience and shared opinions of people like yourself, I have at least established that the car and the regen seems to be operating as it should. Which, was something I wasn’t too sure about when I first posted on the forum. It was all new to me and I wasn’t that sure whether the car we bought was harbouring a problem of some kind.

 

Thanks again for your support

 

Take care

 

Graham

 

Hi Graham, I have the 2023 version of your car and have had it for about 4 months now. 

It did take a while to get used to more than any other car I have owned infact, particularly the steering sensitivity ( a previous post ) 

With regards the regen braking I actually like it in the most part but again it takes some getting used to.

I can't answer your question about eco mode now - but will try when next in the car and back at work on Thursday.

TBH I use normal mode about 90% of the time and find the regen good especially down hills as it saves the brakes and charges the battery. What I find a little annoying is when in regen and you step on the clutch and the car lurches forwards as it comes out of regen mode. You then have to apply the brakes to compensate which feels a bit weird at first.

In Sport mode the throttle response is much livelier as is the regen feature when letting of the throttle and the braking can feel quite harsh. With this in mind I would expect the ECO mode to be the opposite and be a lot less noticeable?

I like the car on the whole and I am quite impressed with the performance and MPG I am getting. Mixed driving is getting me 58-60 mpg according to the computer!!

It has only done 7k and the gear change feels quite stiff but guess as with most nearly new cars I have owned will loosen up and get smoother over time.

Also it can sound a bit rattly and knocky on these cold mornings for the first minute of driving or so. I had a Pug 208 so was used to the 3 cylinder thrum but it didn't sound rattly like this one does. When warmed up it is OK though. 

Hope you get it sorted Graham

 

I have a late 2022 face-lift MHEV Fiesta and usually drive it in Sport mode as it feels much livelier with the better throttle response. Unlike others I seem to have no steering wheel sensitivity difference whatever the mode.

I have to say that I have never experienced any inconsistency in braking. The regen seems to come in and out very smoothly and I have every confidence in them, though to be fair they are a bit more sensitive than other cars I have driven but you quickly get used to that. The only brake snatchiness I get is when first driving the car after it has stood for a few days and it quickly wears off. I attribute that to the discs going rusty while the car is standing unused.

 

1 hour ago, Casbantam said:

Also it can sound a bit rattly and knocky on these cold mornings for the first minute of driving or so.

Same here, done it from new.

On 12/31/2024 at 5:11 PM, Casbantam said:

Hi Graham, I have the 2023 version of your car and have had it for about 4 months now. 

It did take a while to get used to more than any other car I have owned infact, particularly the steering sensitivity ( a previous post ) 

With regards the regen braking I actually like it in the most part but again it takes some getting used to.

I can't answer your question about eco mode now - but will try when next in the car and back at work on Thursday.

TBH I use normal mode about 90% of the time and find the regen good especially down hills as it saves the brakes and charges the battery. What I find a little annoying is when in regen and you step on the clutch and the car lurches forwards as it comes out of regen mode. You then have to apply the brakes to compensate which feels a bit weird at first.

In Sport mode the throttle response is much livelier as is the regen feature when letting of the throttle and the braking can feel quite harsh. With this in mind I would expect the ECO mode to be the opposite and be a lot less noticeable?

I like the car on the whole and I am quite impressed with the performance and MPG I am getting. Mixed driving is getting me 58-60 mpg according to the computer!!

It has only done 7k and the gear change feels quite stiff but guess as with most nearly new cars I have owned will loosen up and get smoother over time.

Also it can sound a bit rattly and knocky on these cold mornings for the first minute of driving or so. I had a Pug 208 so was used to the 3 cylinder thrum but it didn't sound rattly like this one does. When warmed up it is OK though. 

Hope you get it sorted Graham

 

Hi Scot,

Thanks for sharing you thoughts on the subject. Yes, I’m sure you’re right in terms of me needing to get used to the car and it’s ‘idiosyncrasies’. I also agree that this particular Fiesta is taking some getting used to (like yourself) I think more so than any other car I have driven. But then I’ve never had a car this ‘new’ before and from what I am gathering from others who post on the forum, to a greater or lesser degree all newer cars are like this now.

Interesting what you say about the regen, as this is also an issue for me. I step on the clutch and it feels as if the car lurches forwards. You then apply the brakes but don’t really how much to do so, because they can be quite snatchy at times and I’m never sure when that’s going to be? I always try to brake ‘progressively’ but then there have been occasions when I realised that I needed to brake harder to stop safely. But as you say, it’s all a learning curve.

If I understood it correctly, someone on this forum brought to my attention that the regen only kicks in when there is spare capacity in the battery. So if there’s no capacity available it won’t. He went on to say that the problem was that there’s no way of knowing when this is. This is the type of inconsistency that annoys me as it makes it that much more difficult to get used to the car.     

I’ve tried Sport Mode and it has its appeal but I’m going to try ECO Mode for around 30 miles of mixed driving, in preparation for my wife getting behind the wheel. Hoping, as you suggest that (the regen at least) might be a lot less noticeable? I do hope so, she’s a nervous driver at the best of times and I don’t want her first experience to be a negative one.

Yes, mines a bit knocky on start up especially when the weather is colder. However, I’m putting this down (in part) to only having the 3 cylinders and engine balance. However, like yours its fine when it warms up – in fact it’s very smooth indeed. I think there’s also something about the engine deciding how many cylinders it uses in given situations. So this could be a factor also?

I’m glad you seem to be enjoying yours, which gives me some confidence going forward. As you are at least 2 months ahead of me in adapting and getting used to it. I’m sure I’ll get there, as I feel it’s in many respects, a very good car.   

I will post how I’m getting on with it from time to time on the forum. Yes, that’s right to those less tolerant to my situation, I will one day STOP moaning.

😂

 

Thanks for getting in touch Scot

Graham

 

 

13 hours ago, Graham Wood said:

I’ve tried Sport Mode and it has its appeal but I’m going to try ECO Mode for around 30 miles of mixed driving, in preparation for my wife getting behind the wheel. Hoping, as you suggest that (the regen at least) might be a lot less noticeable? I do hope so, she’s a nervous driver at the best of times and I don’t want her first experience to be a negative one.

That's an interesting point. My wife is not in the least nervous, but is in no sense a "car person" and has only driven her own car over the last 10 years, won't touch any of mine. Just looking back, she's never driven anything over 82ps (a 1.25 Fiesta she had previously) or anything other than a "normal" 3 pedal manual. If she keeps driving, an auto (as most things are these days), an EV or an FHEV will be a heck of a shock!😀

I do wonder if those of us who've had lots of cars*, and driven many more, find it easier to adapt to things, even if we don't particularly like them!

*There's a "car history" thread on here as a bit of fun:

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/103261-car-history/

 

20 hours ago, Graham Wood said:

Hi Scot,

 

Thanks for sharing you thoughts on the subject. Yes, I’m sure you’re right in terms of me needing to get used to the car and it’s ‘idiosyncrasies’. I also agree that this particular Fiesta is taking some getting used to (like yourself) I think more so than any other car I have driven. But then I’ve never had a car this ‘new’ before and from what I am gathering from others who post on the forum, to a greater or lesser degree all newer cars are like this now.

 

Interesting what you say about the regen, as this is also an issue for me. I step on the clutch and it feels as if the car lurches forwards. You then apply the brakes but don’t really how much to do so, because they can be quite snatchy at times and I’m never sure when that’s going to be? I always try to brake ‘progressively’ but then there have been occasions when I realised that I needed to brake harder to stop safely. But as you say, it’s all a learning curve.

 

If I understood it correctly, someone on this forum brought to my attention that the regen only kicks in when there is spare capacity in the battery. So if there’s no capacity available it won’t. He went on to say that the problem was that there’s no way of knowing when this is. This is the type of inconsistency that annoys me as it makes it that much more difficult to get used to the car.     

 

I’ve tried Sport Mode and it has its appeal but I’m going to try ECO Mode for around 30 miles of mixed driving, in preparation for my wife getting behind the wheel. Hoping, as you suggest that (the regen at least) might be a lot less noticeable? I do hope so, she’s a nervous driver at the best of times and I don’t want her first experience to be a negative one.

 

Yes, mines a bit knocky on start up especially when the weather is colder. However, I’m putting this down (in part) to only having the 3 cylinders and engine balance. However, like yours its fine when it warms up – in fact it’s very smooth indeed. I think there’s also something about the engine deciding how many cylinders it uses in given situations. So this could be a factor also?

 

I’m glad you seem to be enjoying yours, which gives me some confidence going forward. As you are at least 2 months ahead of me in adapting and getting used to it. I’m sure I’ll get there, as I feel it’s in many respects, a very good car.   

 

I will post how I’m getting on with it from time to time on the forum. Yes, that’s right to those less tolerant to my situation, I will one day STOP moaning.

😂

 

 

Thanks for getting in touch Scot

 

Graham

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Graham,

I think you will get used to it and enjoy it like I am. As you say I am a few months ahead of you and so probably more used to its ways.

Having had my previous car a VW Polo for 6 years it was so different. I loved that car It was so sturdy and nimble a real pleasure to drive. When I decided to trade it in I went to buy a brand new polo Rline but it was gutless and the 5 speed manual gear ratio was terrible so decided against it. 

I had always discounted Ford's for some reason don't know why. But by fate perhaps I hired a car to drive to Scotland for the new polo and ended up with a Fiesta ST line 2021 100bhp. I was surprised by the performance and feel of the car and by the time I was back home 500 miles later it was a real option for me to buy one which I did 1 month later.

Anyways I drove to work in Eco this morning and although it wasn't much I did feel the regen braking was less than in Normal Mode which to me is not harsh like in Sport mode. Like you said try Eco for a while and see how you get on. The throttle is a little less responsive but nothing to worry about.

Hope it all works out for you and the Mrs gets on OK. Would probs get her to start in Eco. She would just have to remember to change to Eco when starting the car as it defaults to Normal 

ATB Scot

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Casbantam said:

Hi Graham,

I think you will get used to it and enjoy it like I am. As you say I am a few months ahead of you and so probably more used to its ways.

Having had my previous car a VW Polo for 6 years it was so different. I loved that car It was so sturdy and nimble a real pleasure to drive. When I decided to trade it in I went to buy a brand new polo Rline but it was gutless and the 5 speed manual gear ratio was terrible so decided against it. 

I had always discounted Ford's for some reason don't know why. But by fate perhaps I hired a car to drive to Scotland for the new polo and ended up with a Fiesta ST line 2021 100bhp. I was surprised by the performance and feel of the car and by the time I was back home 500 miles later it was a real option for me to buy one which I did 1 month later.

Anyways I drove to work in Eco this morning and although it wasn't much I did feel the regen braking was less than in Normal Mode which to me is not harsh like in Sport mode. Like you said try Eco for a while and see how you get on. The throttle is a little less responsive but nothing to worry about.

Hope it all works out for you and the Mrs gets on OK. Would probs get her to start in Eco. She would just have to remember to change to Eco when starting the car as it defaults to Normal 

ATB Scot

 

 

 

 

Hi Scot,

Ha! perhaps that’s what I need a 500-mile round trip. I think some of the problems I’m encountering are probably magnified by the fact that I’m only doing 4–5-mile round trips every couple of days, which in the main is in slow traffic. Perhaps I need to ‘thrash the living daylights’ out of it and teach it a lesson?  🤣

I noticed today that the brakes are (for want of a better term) either ‘on or off’ a bit like a light switch. A lot of the time I’m pressing them so gently you can hear the pads scrapping the discs and then the slightest pressure thereafter WHAM! It’s a dead stop. There doesn’t seem to be any ‘middle ground’ involved at all, which is nothing like I’ve ever experienced with any other car I’ve ever owned.

Perhaps this is just my paranoia but I found it interesting that the car sales I bought it from, have been bombarding me over the last 2 months we’ve had the car, with offers for me to sign up to their ‘brakes and alloy wheel damage’ annual replacement or repair scheme. I’m being silly now but I did wonder whether they knew that it would need new pads and shoes in the near future when I drove it away? Gone are the days when I could get my togs on and scramble on the ground inspecting brake pads. But then if they were really down surely, I would be getting a dashboard warning of some kind?

However, the good news is that I’m beginning to enjoy many other aspects of the car. I think the engine is great, very responsive and the torque/ ratio in the gearing is quite amazing for such a small engine unit. On the few occasions I’ve engaged the turbo it feels it feels as though I’m driving a much bigger car. It’s not just the acceleration it produces but the smooth way it delivers it.

Your experience with the VW Polo is interesting as that’s exactly what we wanted ourselves. Unfortunately funds didn’t allow for one any younger than a 017-018 year, all with high mileage. So we opted for the Ford Fiesta.    

Thanks for the info on the ECO Mode, that’s encouraging. As it is, I do most of the driving but won’t be able to that consistently due to medical issues (spinal problems). So, it’s important that the Mrs gets to like this car over the long term. That’s why I don’t want her to have any major issues with the drive when starting out with it. Ha! I need to tame it first, tell it to behave itself.  😂

I’m sure it will all work out in the end; it’s going to have to.

Thanks again for the info

Kind Regards

Graham

11 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

That's an interesting point. My wife is not in the least nervous, but is in no sense a "car person" and has only driven her own car over the last 10 years, won't touch any of mine. Just looking back, she's never driven anything over 82ps (a 1.25 Fiesta she had previously) or anything other than a "normal" 3 pedal manual. If she keeps driving, an auto (as most things are these days), an EV or an FHEV will be a heck of a shock!😀

I do wonder if those of us who've had lots of cars*, and driven many more, find it easier to adapt to things, even if we don't particularly like them!

*There's a "car history" thread on here as a bit of fun:

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/103261-car-history/

 

Hi  Roger,

Thanks, that's cheered me up no end looking at the 'car history' stuff. Genuinely, it was good reading and brought back many memories of my own eclectic collection over the years. At some point when i find time (and it will take time!) i will stick a listing on here myself. I noticed in your comprehensive and impressive listing that you had a BSA 250. Was it the Star Fire? I used to have one of those in my biking days. Loved it to bits!