I have had a problem with the Engine Management Light (EML) coming on in my Galaxy since having the timing belt done in May 2024.  But as far as I can tell there is no timing issue with the engine.  Below is a fairly detailed timeline of what's been done since the EML started coming on after I had the timing belt done.

1.6 Galaxy 2013

If you're able to give me any ideas about what is actually wrong it would be appreciated!

May

Had timing belt replaced as part of standard service interval.

Car was in the local garage for a couple of weeks because they said the EML came on due to temperature sensor issue and they wanted to resolve it. Returned it to us with EML off. Came on when got home. They said it was temperature sensor because it requires two parts to be perfectly lined up and was proving difficult for them to do. I needed car for family trip which was a long drive. They assured me it was fine to drive the car.

Car went back to local garage for them to try and resolve. They had it for a long time again and said they needed a specialist tool to fix it properly. (I assumed at the time that it was a specialist tool for the temperature sensor but it may have actually been a fault code reader.)

Car was returned as fixed a couple of times and each time the car was returned with EML off. EML came back on usually the next time we started the engine.

June

After a few attempts we decided to go to dealer garage. They told me the fault code was “crankshaft camshaft correlation fault”. I know know this to be P0016:78-EC, Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation - Bank 1 Sensor A.

They redid timing belt. Returned to us EML off. When driving car out of the garage after paying EML came back on. Dealer then had it back in to investigate further. They wanted to investigate under camshaft cover but I refused to pay for this because I thought this meant they suspected the pistons were hitting the valves and I knew from the engine sound this was not happening.

July

Back to local garage because I needed the car for family holiday and MOT was needed. They confirmed that the code was P0016:78-EC but the engine timing was spot on and cleared the code which stayed off while they had it and did the MOT. Emissions tests were perfect confirming timing was not out.

August-October

Back to local garage a couple more times. Replaced crankshaft sensor to rule that out from being issue. EML was off. Came back on next time we started the engine.

October…

Lived with EML on for several months.

Some important things since warning light been on:

1. Fuel economy has been excellent.
2. Engine has not been misfiring at all.

January

Dashboard message came up: “Engine malfunction” So bit the bullet and back to dealer garage. Dealer had it in for a couple of weeks. They discovered “play” in variable camshaft timing. Replaced it.

They road tested several times over three days to confirm ok. They returned it to us with no EML but there was a fault logged in the “background”. Master Technician left this note on invoice “Carried out road test no eml on - PCM Storing code PO017 SENSOR B but no EML on”. So fault shifted from sensor A to sensor B. (This suggests maybe not a camshaft sensor issue.) I spoke with Master Tech. and he is baffled by what the issue is, but he is wondering if car was serviced with wrong engine oil it could be causing an issue since VCT is oil pressure driven.

EML came back on two days after collection. But this time it came on while driving the car.

48 minutes ago, ptolemicus said:

he is wondering if car was serviced with wrong engine oil it could be causing an issue since VCT is oil pressure driven.

It would be a good idea to change the Oil unless you are certain that the correct Oil was used.

47 minutes ago, Tizer said:

It would be a good idea to change the Oil unless you are certain that the correct Oil was used.

I think changing the oil would be a good idea regardless, so that can ruled off the list of potential issues.

Could there be an intermittent wiring fault/sensor fault if the code doesn't come on immediately?

@unofix has just posted before me.

23 hours ago, Tizer said:

It would be a good idea to change the Oil unless you are certain that the correct Oil was used.

23 hours ago, unofix said:

I think changing the oil would be a good idea regardless, so that can ruled off the list of potential issues.

Thanks, yes I think it is a good idea to rule out the oil being an issue.

 

23 hours ago, Shearers said:

Could there be an intermittent wiring fault/sensor fault if the code doesn't come on immediately?

@unofix has just posted before me.

Could be some wiring fault, but not sure how it would flag sensor A continuously then switch to sensor B when the VCT was fixed (assuming it was actually faulty and then fixed).

I'm sorry but I didn't know that Galaxys had Variable Camshaft Timing and as I don't know that type of engine I'll have to lurk on this thread.

If the fault has just changed from one sensor to the other, after some timing check has been done, that is a bit of a clue but perhaps an oil (+flush?, Ouch!) and filter change should be done to get that out of the way?

I looked it up and this page explains a bit:
https://axlewise.com/diagnostics/obd-codes/p0017/

Therefore I would be looking at oil as said, reluctor wheel as mentioned, and still crank and cam sensors and their circuits.
My question is does the sensor (are there definitely two, one per camshaft) know and correlate the actual camshaft positions when the timing is altering i.e. does it check (and manage via the ECU) the altered value of timing or is it just looking at the gears that don't change position?

14 hours ago, Shearers said:

My question is does the sensor (are there definitely two, one per camshaft) know and correlate the actual camshaft positions when the timing is altering i.e. does it check (and manage via the ECU) the altered value of timing or is it just looking at the gears that don't change position?

This is a 1.6 EcoBoost.  Same engine as Mk7 Fiesta ST180, but slightly detuned in the Galaxy.  They have twin independent variable camshafts.  There are two separate sensors.  They pick-up directly from each shaft to detect the angle of advance on each one at any given time.

21 hours ago, Shearers said:

I'm sorry but I didn't know that Galaxys had Variable Camshaft Timing and as I don't know that type of engine I'll have to lurk on this thread.

If the fault has just changed from one sensor to the other, after some timing check has been done, that is a bit of a clue but perhaps an oil (+flush?, Ouch!) and filter change should be done to get that out of the way?

I looked it up and this page explains a bit:
https://axlewise.com/diagnostics/obd-codes/p0017/

Therefore I would be looking at oil as said, reluctor wheel as mentioned, and still crank and cam sensors and their circuits.
My question is does the sensor (are there definitely two, one per camshaft) know and correlate the actual camshaft positions when the timing is altering i.e. does it check (and manage via the ECU) the altered value of timing or is it just looking at the gears that don't change position?

Great find - looks like oil change is a good shout.  Do you think a flush as well is necessary, that expensive is it (going by your "Ouch!")?
The video in that article says clean about the VVT solenoid, do you think just cleaning around the solenoid that would be sufficient, or defo flush?  Already spent a lot of wonga on this and I don't know how much a  flush would be.  Do you know a ballpark?

My Ouch! was totally due to the Marmite issue of flush, i.e. some people (me) have done it at every oil change whilst others believe it is Snake Oil or a Spawn of The Devil Mechanic!
It's a tin of solvent about £4.50.
The only time I'd be a bit dubious is if the oil hasn't been changed for far too long e.g. years overdue where there is a small possibility that C__P can be dislodged.

However my experience is good in that I had to remove the head from a Mondeo at about 100 000 miles and the bores and camshaft etc were surprisingly clean. Don't know if it helped or not but I'm still doing it.
One example:
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/what-is-an-oil-flush-are-they-necessary/
I'd draw the line at removing sump...

A little more negative:
https://club.autodoc.co.uk/magazin/engine-flush-does-it-work-and-it-safe
Any negative comments with evidence guys?
Unsure about solenoid cleaning but as that is the control for the system causing issues it may be worth trying after doing the simple things first, in stages, and assessing any improvement or otherwise?
I'd also suggest a real diagnostic check of the detail of the signals coming from the 3 sensors but that will take someone with expertise and equipment (before just changing everything as it may be wiring)

16 minutes ago, Shearers said:

My Ouch! was totally due to the Marmite issue of flush, i.e. some people (me) have done it at every oil change whilst others believe it is Snake Oil or a Spawn of The Devil Mechanic!
It's a tin of solvent about £4.50.
The only time I'd be a bit dubious is if the oil hasn't been changed for far too long e.g. years overdue where there is a small possibility that C__P can be dislodged.

However my experience is good in that I had to remove the head from a Mondeo at about 100 000 miles and the bores and camshaft etc were surprisingly clean. Don't know if it helped or not but I'm still doing it.
One example:
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/what-is-an-oil-flush-are-they-necessary/
I'd draw the line at removing sump...

A little more negative:
https://club.autodoc.co.uk/magazin/engine-flush-does-it-work-and-it-safe
Any negative comments with evidence guys?
Unsure about solenoid cleaning but as that is the control for the system causing issues it may be worth trying after doing the simple things first, in stages, and assessing any improvement or otherwise?
I'd also suggest a real diagnostic check of the detail of the signals coming from the 3 sensors but that will take someone with expertise and equipment (before just changing everything as it may be wiring)

Nice one, thanks.  I'm no mechanic myself so I'm going to phone the garage tomorrow AM and ask them to do the oil change and inspection of components anyway.  They had the camshaft cover off anyway to do the VVT (or VCT not sure which is correct) so maybe they could see how clean things were looking then.

Ask for photos (as it seems to be a "thing") and a report?
Unfortunately this looks like it will have to be done in stages and without disrespecting anyone, it may need a detailed investigation that may be above the level of even a Master tech (unless they have deep expertise and equipment.

I'll give my usual You Tube Champions:
Diagnose Dan, Milligan Auto Diagnostics, Intelligent Auto 

As exemplars of how to "do" diagnosis (by testing not guessing and not simply replacing parts willy-nilly?
 

Edit: @ptolemicus I need to remember that flush is definitely not to be used on (I won't have one) wet belt engines, need to be sure about that - who thought that one up?

Edit 2: Dan's fix of VVT (granted it's BMW but the idea that dealer couldn't fix it and he can - with testing not guessing):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDutBrxBQ9Q

Can your dealer apply that level of expertise?

 

On 2/16/2025 at 9:17 PM, Shearers said:

Edit 2: Dan's fix of VVT (granted it's BMW but the idea that dealer couldn't fix it and he can - with testing not guessing):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDutBrxBQ9Q

Can your dealer apply that level of expertise?

That video was excellent.  I doubt they could replicate that.  However if the oil change does not resolve then I will try to pass that video along to him because Dan raises a couple of other common failures which is great.

I feel like the owner of that Beemer - spent a lot of wonga on this and still persists.

Sadly oil change has not resolved the issue.  But sent the article and video through to the garage.  Let's see if other common issues flagged there will lead to a solution.

Short update here (approx two months without my vehicle!).

After the oil change the code did not resolve but the code did move to "the other side of the engine" (which I interpret as another sensor).  Technicians were still insisting the engine timing is spot on.  This made me think this is a computer issue not an engine fault.  Asked them to do a hard reset - disconnect battery for 30 seconds.  That did not resolve.  So I was then suspecting a wiring fault.  But technicians wanted to open up the camshafts and inspect.  They did this and found a "cam slightly out of alignment".  I take this to mean (and will clarify during collection) the shaft was slightly out (as I believe the cams are machined out of the shaft).  They have fixed this and the code has cleared.

If the shaft was slightly out then this is interesting to me because the next port of call my local garage wanted to investigate was the sprockets on the camshafts as they said that the sprockets on Galaxys often get warped.  (I didn't continue with the local garage on this occasion because I became aware that they were dragging their feet and wasting my time in a lot of ways and I needed a focussed effort on the task.)

So all being well the camshaft fix has resolved this, and if it turns out the camshaft sprocket was at fault then that would be useful knowledge for timing issues on Galaxys specifically.

Issue is now resolved.  Garage opened up the camshafts and found that one of them was out by 1 mm.  So I guess they were on the right track with the investigation of the mechanical side of things.

Seems that my local garage when doing the timing probably took a shortcut and did not lock the engine fully.  By eye the timing was ok but sensors are more sensitive.

Cheers for all the assistance in the thread.

Thanks for coming back and telling us  - all of that due to a lack of care and attention on the initial job with no compensation for poor work apart from finding a better garage next time?

If the cams can move relative to gears or shaft when locked up for a belt or chain change then that's design issue that I haven't any knowledge of and would be poor design which I'd love to see a picture of?

4 hours ago, Shearers said:

Thanks for coming back and telling us  - all of that due to a lack of care and attention on the initial job with no compensation for poor work apart from finding a better garage next time?

If the cams can move relative to gears or shaft when locked up for a belt or chain change then that's design issue that I haven't any knowledge of and would be poor design which I'd love to see a picture of?

My mum's mechanic (who she swears by) had a ten minute chat with me on the phone (he is based too far away for me to realistically get him to do the job).  He said a lot of garages don't lock the variable valve timing gears and then they air gun the bolts off for speed's sake which can lead to the timing getting out by a tooth which can be easy to miss by eye but the sensors pick up.  Sorry I can't get you a picture of it!

Defo looking for a new garage now.  I now seem to have an overheating issue to sort out 🤦‍♂️ !