Hi all, my wife's '02 Ford Focus 1.8 TDCI is difficult to start when cold. As it is nearing winter I changed the glow plugs as a precaution.

However, I reckon the problem relates to either the starter motor or the battery. When I turn on the ignition the glow plug light comes on briefly then goes out. When I turn the engine over it cranks for about a second or so, then I have to turn off the ignition and try again. It will start but the starter motor won't crank continuously.

Is this normal?

I'm more used to working on motorbikes and on my bike when I press the starter, the starter motor continues to crank until I let go of the button. So I'm assuming this should be the case for the Focus too.

I'm reasonably handy with the spanners but my bike is over 30 years old so it is a much simpler beast than the car.

The battery charges when the engine is running and is 12.8 volts when not charging. I have tried connecting a battery booster pack across the battery to give it more power but the starter motor still only turns for a second or so.

Anyone had similar problems or any ideas on the likely cause?

Thanks,

Rod.

Additional to the above, I got the car warmed up and tried it again, the starter motor will continue to crank. So I'm thinking that the battery may be on they way out, struggling to turn the engine over when cold, thicker oil etc.

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Battery is most likely the issue!

To be honest, if you havent changed it in the last few years then your best off doing it!

Thanks for the info. Having had a look at other threads I get the impression that a silver battery is needed, not sure what type of battery is currently fitted so I'll check when the other half gets back from work.

We've only had the car for about 6 months so I don't know how long the battery has been in. I got a local garage to check it over when we bought it and he mentioned that it hadn't had much done to it, so I suspect the battery may be quite old. So far I have had to replace the front brake pads & discs, glow plugs, front crash sensor and changed the oil & filters. MOT next week so I'll wait to see how much that is going to cost. Hopefully most of the expense is over with for now.

Any idea how much a decent silver battery should cost? Cheapest I have found is Varta at about £80

Yes, you need a silver calcium battery if your car has a smart-charge system (most modern fords)

I managed to pick up one for my Mondeo for £45, (trade discount/ direct from distributors) it was a varta with "powerframe" technology, but a bit smaller than stock,(12kilos instead of 19) but has got me through a couple of winters

PS - i would not recommend downsizing the battery - i use a solar panel and have a total in/out LED conversion, and the smaller (high performance) battery has only slightly less CCAs than a stock one

the thing about a lead-acid (car) battery is if you flatten it it reduces the capacity - so you should always keep a charge in it, i have an led voltmeter and know how much voltage the car needs to start- i check it before starting the car so i don't take the last little pit of power out of the battery needlessly if the car isnt going to start anyway - the solar panel is supposed to keep the battery charged when the car is sitting for long periods (eg- when undergoing rebuilds/ extensive modificarions)

You can get a neat little LED voltmeter that fits in the cigar lighter -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Mini-LED-12V-24V-Car-Vehicle-System-Voltmeter-Voltage-Gauge-Volt-Meter-/360650995916?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item53f87978cc#ht_2036wt_1141

Thanks FOCA, I have just checked and the one fitted is a Bosch S3 004, 470A 53Ah.

It is reading 12.8 volts with ignition off, drops to 11.7 volts with the glow plugs heating up and charges at 14 volts.

Does this seem normal?

Thanks FOCA, I have just checked and the one fitted is a Bosch S3 004, 470A 53Ah.

It is reading 12.8 volts with ignition off, drops to 11.7 volts with the glow plugs heating up and charges at 14 volts.

Does this seem normal?

Yes, 12.8 is about right with little load, it drops to 11.7 because of the heavy load of the glow plugs (it will drop even more when you crank/ turn the engine over) - the smart charge system will boost the volts when the engine(/ battery) is cold (and the engine running) it can boost it upto 16v maximum apparently (so the 14v is ok), this would boil a regular(non- silver calcium) lead-acid battery

it can be a fine line between starting and not, with just a little bit more/ extra juice enough to start the engine

These batteries are less effective at lower temps, the glow plugs tend to go on for longer, more load/ taken out of the battery in the winter (demisters heated bits lights on for longer etc ) all adding up

I got a Varta c6 52AH 520CCA (cold cranking amps) "silver dynamic" "powerframe technology" 12.5 kgs 175x175x207 £50.95 delivered (see link- ) - you had better check the phisical size and the polarity/ terminal orientation - i drive a 2.0L diesel Mondeo mk3 the stock mondeo battery is 74AH (or 80AH for the 2.2), but the battery can weigh 19+kgs the high-performance varta brings the ccas up to 520, and saves 5-1/2kgs of weight (and some money too!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VARTA-SILVER-C6-52AH-VAUXHALL-CALIBRA-CAR-BATTERY-/281008365004?_trksid=p2054897.l4275#ht_2932wt_1170

the little voltmeter only costs £4 and is a good investment, even with a new battery

Hi Rod, I believe S3 is the correct battery to use, but the voltage looks right now but might not be the right ampage to start?

OK, thanks guys. I'll see how it goes for now, I can get one pretty quickly if I need to. Once the MOT is out of the way I'll see if I can raid the Christmas savings.

18v max charge on a dead battery 14.4 v is the standard charging rate on the dash or 14 on an almost fully charged battery it then drops as the cars being run so it can charge at 13v if its fully charged

A couple of messages have gone missing due to the recent problems. Update as follows...

jeebowhite: I have listened in the passenger footwell and the only clicking is what sounds like a relay engaging when the ignition is switched on, it clicks just once so I assume this is ok. The headlights don't flicker.

Speaking to a local mechanic and describing what happens, he thinks it is the drive that engages the starter motor with the engine, which is what I had suspected. So I'll have a look at that and hopefully the problem will be sorted. I'll post again once this has been checked.

Hi Rod,

In that case, it indicates that the battery itself is fine, if you hear it clicking like nuts, that would suggest the battery is dead. it could be the starter solanoid or brushes that's the issue (just a bad contact)

If you do any repairs, do feel free to do a few photos and guidelines for anyone who might benefit from it :)

(nod nod, wink wink)

:)

A couple of messages have gone missing due to the recent problems. Update as follows...

jeebowhite: I have listened in the passenger footwell and the only clicking is what sounds like a relay engaging when the ignition is switched on, it clicks just once so I assume this is ok. The headlights don't flicker.

Speaking to a local mechanic and describing what happens, he thinks it is the drive that engages the starter motor with the engine, which is what I had suspected. So I'll have a look at that and hopefully the problem will be sorted. I'll post again once this has been checked.

With the age of the car, it is possible that the DMF (dual mass flywheel) if one is fitted, may be starting to break up - this can contaminate the starter motor engagement mech (often a bendix type on modern Fords)

You can fit a new starter motor (approx £50 for a pattern one) but it may start playing up again if the DMF is continuing to break up - The DMF is a big job and the gearbox has to be dropped to do it, normally you change the DMF, both parts of the clutch and the CSC, (concentric slave cylinder AKA thrust bearing) - it can cost upto £800 to get this done (parts+ labor)

Fitting a higher capacity battery is easy (can be done yourself) and is relatively cheap, the battery, being new, may mean the difference of cranking/ turning the engine over a couple more times, even if the fault lies elsewhere, - it could mean the difference between the car starting or not - that is why i recommend you do this, even as a temporary measure untill the fault is fixed (even if the battery that is fitted is "ok") - it also eliminates the battery as the problem - its just common sense, really

The batteries actual "real life" capacity/ ability to start the car is dependant on temprature, the power you get at 0 degrees or 4 degrees is much less than that of 18 degrees (centigrade) and with the head etc being cold and the glow plugs going on for longer/ the oil being thicker etc it all adds up to it being mor difficult to start when the weather gets cold

Finally sorted. My ever-trusting wife decided that she doesn't want me "messing about" with the car again and took it to the local garage. They identified the fault and as my wife describes it: "it was a cog type thingy for the starter motor".

Not exactly sure what a cog type thingy is but it has been replaced and the car now starts as you would expect. Fingers crossed that is the end of it and we can enjoy some trouble-free motoring. £80 lighter but my wife is happy, so that's a quieter life for me.

The cog is definitely the starter solenoid then.

When the ignition is enabled the cog pops up under the power of a magnetic coil to engage in the teeth on the flywheel, this then turns the engine over.

When the key is released the magnetic coil switches off and the cog drops back disconnecting the starter motor.

If the cog was not engaging properly or the solenoid wasn't functioning properly then you would get starting problems.

Just glad it's all sorted out for you.

lol. Dont you just love the other half technical talk "cog type thingy" - I can so hear my wife telling this...

My missus would just say the thing on the other thing.

Bless :d

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