2005 Focus 1.6 Ti-Vct Cooling Issues

[bakelit79]

Hello there,

I hope not to get stoned for repeating questions as I am sure what I write here has been covered already. I have done my browsing on here and I think I have some of the answers but I would like to get the full picture so please bear with me.

After a long period of driving Japanese I ended up having a 2005 Focus Estate with a 1.6 TI-VCT engine. I have had it for a good week now and as far as I can tell after about 500 miles I like it. When I bought it the coolant temperature guage was suspiciously steady at 60 C even after 15-20 miles. I think I should have thought of the obvious why the previous owner parted with it.

I suspect my thermostat is stuck open or semi open. The tests I have done so far:

Set the on-board computer to show the engine temperature ( I hope I am right saying this shows the cylinder head temperature)

started the engine and put my hand on the radiator. Started with the radiator being cool and the temperature in it started to build up very quickly , although the engine temperature was only showing about 86-88 degree C. The coolant temperature gauge was still on 60 degree C. Then I spent another 20 mins sitting on 1500RPM (still on the drive) to get the engine temperature up to 120-125 degree C. At this point the coolant temperature guage had reached around 80 degree C. I carried on warming the engine to test if the fan was working as I had never heard it come on before. About 10 minutes later at around 142-143 degree C I finally could hear the sound so the fan was working. At this point the coolant gauge was just under 90 (ever so slightly before the middle mark) so I guess the gauge is not the most accurate as people here say the fan is set to come on around 100 C.

I also took the car out for a drive a day later. I drove 20 miles to see what would happen under life like conditions with the computer set to show the engine temperature. I was doing a mixed drive, revving the cr@p out of it as well as go as slow as possible and the engine temperature just would not get over 80 degree C. I could only push it over when I rolled onto the drive and let the engine run for a few more minutes.

The other thing I think my be a give away (I might be wrong) that from Peterborough to Birmingham and back with no traffic issues I could do near enough steady 65-70mph and the coolant guage would not move from 60 C and my mpg when I refilled the car worked out only to be 32-33mpg (around 8.8 l/ 100km). I would have expected more on a long run, given that the temperature was relatively mild at the weekend.

The car pulls OK otherwise and does not judder or misfire.

One strange thing I think is also worth mentioning that when I checked the engine temperature from home to work this morning upon turning the key to the second position whilst holding the trip computer button and selecting the engine temperature the starting temperature was about 43 degree C. I found it a bit odd as the car had not been driven since the evening before. I would have expected it to be around 10 C , same as the air temperature.

Here are my questions:

1. Do you guys think it could be thermostat or is it something else?

2. Is it possible that my temperature sensors are not working or giving false reading?

3. Where is the coolant temperature sensor situated in my focus?

4.What temperature does the engine temperature sensor actually measures? Is it the cylinder head?

5. What is the usual operating temperature measured by the engine temperature sensor ?

6. At what temperature folks would you expect the thermostat to open and let coolant go to the radiator?

7. What is the temperature set point for the radiator fan? Is it 140 +/- 5 degree C of the engine temperature or is it the coolant at 90 -/+ 5 degree C?

8. Which temperature sensor feeds the ECU (PCM)? And would the ECU give the signal to the gauge on the dash or would it be a separare unit?

Sorry for the lenghty post, I am new to cars although have been driving for 15 years but only just recently started to show interest in how they actually work.

Thanks in advance!

Pete

[cbirchy87]

I have the same car. Mine does the same thing. Turns out its normal for this car to do this! the needle never hits the centre.

[artscot79]

Its normal coolant gauge not engine temp aircon fan runs constantly also due to the type of pump

[bakelit79]

Guys,

Thank you for the answer, however I still do not feel what I am experiencing is acceptable.

What temperature sensor is seen under the name of "engine temperature" in the hidden computer menu (trip counter reset pressed and key turned to second position) of the MK2 1.6 petrol focus? Is that the cylinder head sensor?

Where would you expect the above temperature to sit this time of the year (7-10 degree C) when the car is warmed up and driven 20-30 miles on motorway? 80 C? 100 C? or more or less?

My aircon has been disconnected, the bottom pipe of the front radiator is lashed up so I cannot possibly have the aircon on.

Having read this forum my heater fan is constantly set to 1 and temperature just in the mid position. Also, the air is not set to be blown onto the front windscreen which in theory switches the aircon on and I can only get the engine temperature up to 88-90 degree C irrespective of how and where and how long I drive the car unless I hit slow moving traffic. Again, this temperature is not the coolant gauge in the instrument cluster but the 'engine temperature' from the hidden on board computer menu.

I am getting a bit annoyed as the fuel efficiency is way too low and not just around town.

The thermostat has been tested by my mechanic and he said it was working when he put it in hot water. Whether he checked if it closed as well that I did not ask.

I am happy if you tell me that this time of the year running the engine at 85-90 degree C is acceptable but I want to know if it s normal. Wherever I read on the net most forums say around 110 degree C for cars in general, hence my question.

Thanks again!

Pete

[cbirchy87]

Mine acts 100% the same as yours. I do find it strange, but it does seem normal for this engine.

[bakelit79]

Hello there,

I have blocked up the lower front grill. Engine temperature is now around 100 C cruising on motorway at 70 mph, but I am yet to see if it is sustainable around town and when inching in traffic i.e. the fan can dissipate the heat when needed. I might just replace the thermostat for good measure.

Chris,

Is yours also poor on fuel? It seems mine gains a lot just by keeping the engine warmer. Try putting a cardboard across the lower grill, make sure you secure it somehow so it will not get pushed away at higher speed. It cost nothing but 15-20 mins fiddling with the tool knife and cable tie, and it can look ugly unless you slap on something black to make it look less inconspicuous. I used black duct tape. Engine warms up quicker, and engine temperature seems to be relatively steady at about 10-12 C higher than pre modification. I might get some removable insulation under the bonnet too to experiment with.

good luck!

Pete

[JW1982]

The temperature gauge is directly controlled by the PCM. The values shown on the temperature gauge (and also in the test menu) are calculated values and not realtime values. These values are calculated based on the data of several sensors (engine temperature, outside air temperature, MAF and/or MAP sensor, lambda sensors, etc.). Each of the sensors used to calculate the value can affect the value shown on the temperature gauge.

On a Focus MK2 the needle of the temperature gauge is just before the middle of the scale (if the engine has reached is normal operating temperature) and stays there.

The instrument cluster firmware does also affect the behaviour of the temperature gauge.

Bottomline is that both the temperature gauge and the test menu are not reliable to diagnose the engine temperature.

[biff55]

Bottomline is that both the temperature gauge and the test menu are not reliable to diagnose the engine temperature.

Which begs the question , why the hell did ford install a monitoring system that relays inaccurate temperature data to the driver ?

i dont want instrument gauges showing a best guess lol.

[artscot79]

a lot of cars dont have any gauge for temp itrs just there to tell you when its either over cooling or over heating other than that its just a gauge as i said in a previous post the ti vct gauge sits where it is not slap bang in the middle its just a tad before it most gauges are nothing more than a best guess

[bakelit79]

Could the thermostat drift an open at lower than the rated temperature? Mine does not seem to regulate at all, just let coolant go to the radiator pretty much instantly after the engine starts and this is by touching the top hose to the radiator. I book my car in for a proper check, it really is bugging me. Thanks for the ideas anyway, I am just hoping that the garage will find the culprit.

Cheers,

Pete

[artscot79]

its not going through the rad there is a scondary thermostat on the bottom hose from the rad that fits into a y piece when closed the coolant cycles through the engine as it heats up it disperses into the small hose into the expansion tank and is sucked through the thick hose on the bottom of the tank into the y piece which then goes to the pump and the process repeats until the temp is enough to open the main thermostat then it goes round the engine but the air going through the rad at this time of year will quickly over cool so the thermostat shuts again its how a car works the ti vct system is a bit more complictaed than a normal system if youre gauge is just under half way leave it alone or you may open a can of worms that just gets expensive

[bakelit79]

Arthur,

My needle never leaves the starting point i.e. 60 C unless in ever so slow moving traffic or if I block of half the radiator or the bottom grills which I have just experimented with. Under normal conditions like 1.5-2hrs drive on the motorway the needle stays on 60 and never moves. If mine was just before the 90 C mark when warmed up I would be a happy man. Even when the radiator is half blocked I only get to 90 when inching in traffic as soon as I get up to speed the needle drops very quickly back to the base line. My mpg is poor but with the blocked off grill/radiator it has greatly improved and the temperature can get up to the first mark (70-75 C equivalent) when driven for 30-45mins. I think my thermostat might not have the right rating and opens at much lower temperature not letting the engine warm up at all. Or it never closes. I will check if the instrument cluster is faulty, I know my coolant sensor has just been replaced.

Anyway, I keep repeating myself I will need to get some action or I will be forever guessing. If there is anything to report I will get back to here.

thanks,

Pete

[bakelit79]

Hello there,

I thought might be useful to report back that I was right about the thermostat.

Chris if yours doing exactly the same as mine then you have a broken unit. It is best to double check everything it seems and I am glad I took the unit out in the end and inspected it. One of the frame holding brackets on mine was broken so the spring was not tracking properly and did not close the thermostat fully.

My coolant temperature needle now sits just a bit before the centre line irrespective of how, where and at what temperature or speed I drive.

I do wonder what my car mechanic did when he checked it and said it was working fine about a week or so ago. Also just as an aside, when he flushed the the coolant and replaced it it was so dilute that it would have frozen just by looking at it. So best if you do things yourself as much as you can.

Anyway, I am sorted now, the next challenge is the front cigarette lighter.

All the best,

Pete

[eskimoigloo]

Hi bakelit, did you change the thermostat in the housing on the engine? Or this mystical second one I can't find? Mine does the same as yours but used to run at 90.

thanks, Chris

[pky]

1 hour ago, eskimoigloo said:

Hi bakelit, did you change the thermostat in the housing on the engine? Or this mystical second one I can't find? Mine does the same as yours but used to run at 90.

thanks, Chris

Hi,

If your coolant gauge is sitting at 60 when driving and perhaps rising when in staionary traffic then I'd say the thermostat needs changing. Had the same symptoms and that fixed it. The thermostat comes with the housing in an all in one. You probably can replace the thermostat inside it but I replaced just it with this from eurocarparts.

 

The mythical one is here:

Recirculation valve/ Solenoid

Part no: 1223988

 

 

I had a fault code relating to this part, so replaced it after finding one at a scrappy for £5.

[2010powen]

Hi Pete, sorry to hijack your post but your issues seem to be the exact issues I am having. I purchased a 05 focus 1.6 ti-vct last week. bringing it home I noticed the blowers weren't exactly red hot, more just warm! Didn't think much of it until last night after a 30min motorway drive I noticed the temp needle hadn't moved! ( I know from years of experience it should sit in the middle) and still only blowing warm air. the needle did start to rise slighty once sat in traffic but still no were where I think it should be. I also didn't think the mpg were great either. 35mpg accoringing to trip computer.

my first fought was thermosat, but then after doing some reading I discovered it has a ECT sensor ( first time i've heard of it ). 

So after doing some reading I seem to be getting conflicting results

Some say its normal.

Some ( like yours ) say thermosat ( yours didn't mention any regarding internal heaters)

Some say the ECT sensor runs both temperature gauge and internal heaters ( like my issues )

I've order a new ECT sensor  but it looks like it may be a bit more fiddly than I first so I'd rather not do it then still have to do the thermosat.

So basically I am hoping for some advice on which route I may best taking?

Were you also have issues with your heaters or was yours fine??

also were is the hidden menu you spoke of??

Thanks in advance paul 

[bob34]

Hi Paul and all

First of all, I apologise for my english, I'm French and I do my best.

I was looking at this post because I had the same problem!

I bought my car in june, and I didn't really noticed than I had a problem with the temperature gauge.

During summer the temperature was raising just above 70°C and goes to 90°C when in staionary traffic. But during winter the temperature gauge didn't move and the heater worked very badly.

I changed the thermostat and everything went to normal, 98°C after few minutes and hot air was back!

When I read your symptoms, this is probably the thermostat, this part seems quite fragile when you look at it! (2 little plastic parts to hold the thermostat in the housing... break easilly)

On 24/12/2017 at 4:10 PM, 2010powen said:

So basically I am hoping for some advice on which route I may best taking?

My opinion, thermostat first! When Ilooked on internet, it seems to be a recurring breakdown on the 1.6 ti-vct.

 

On 24/12/2017 at 4:10 PM, 2010powen said:

also were is the hidden menu you spoke of??

here

 

[2010powen]

hi bob, thanks for reply. yes after much reading I have decided to go for the thermosat 1st, it does seem like people have the most luck with changing that. Did you change yours your self?

It does look like it may be a bit of a pain! Ideally would like the weather to warm 1st, but then I wouldn't be in such a rush to do it! lol Suppose best get Christmas out of the way and crack on

 

[Stevesixty7]

I too would go for the thermostat Paul, that is usually the case when the cabin doesn't warm up. As for temperature gauge, my Focus doesn't have temperature readings, it sits always on half way and the blowers are hot in no time. My 2017 company van however has that, it too sits at halfway when properly warmed up which is 90 degrees.

[bob34]

11 hours ago, 2010powen said:

Did you change yours your self?

Yes.

11 hours ago, 2010powen said:

It does look like it may be a bit of a pain!

For me, it was a pain in the ***!

It took me almost 3h30 to change it.

You must first remove the alternator and the thermostat is just under it. After that, there is not a lot of space to grab the 4 screws...

But it's doable, take your time.

[2010powen]

 

thanks guys. decided to book it to get the thermostat done next week, will cost a little more but after reading your post bob I am quite pleased I did. To cold at the mo to be spending over 3 hours under the car!

Will let use know how I get on

 

[bob34]

Hey

Maybe this video can help you :

 

[2010powen]

great video thanks, he made it look really simple! almost temped to do  it myself lol 

[2010powen]

hi all, quick update. Got my focus back from garage today after having thermosat replaced. Heaters are now red hot and temp needle just off centre ( were it should be!)

Definitely the first port of call for anyone with same issue. 

[ChaserHUN]

I have a 2005 ford focus ti-vct. I had a problem that the water temeprature won't go above 70 celsius. The full thermostate has been replcaed like 2 weeks a go. After that the temperature was in center. A few days ago the temp won't rise again, but sometimes it won't even go above 60 celsius. The heating in the car is a lot weaker too. So if the thermostate is working fine, because it's new, what the problem can be? I thought the thermostate works fully mechanically.