loosing alot of oil.. (Z-TEC S)

[spitfire123]

hi all,

i have a 97 fiesta 1.25 ztec s(non-powersteering)

basicly the other day i checked the oil in her (checked about 2 weeks prior to this and she was fine) and the oil level was JUST on the dipstick so a bit low....annyway i topped her up and now about 300 miles later she is back to low AGAIN.

now she isnt buring oil at all...she runs as sweet as a nut and starts 1st time very time and has 100% power.

now i juscked her up tonight when i got home from work and it looks like round the back on the sump and the loewest pully is coverd in a gunky oil?

now it looks like the sump gasket is slightly perrished round the edges but im more concerned that the lower pully (i think its the water pump) is quite heavly coated in oil and i think this is the cause.

so is the pully at the verry bottom of my engine the oil pump or the water pump?i cant work it out.

Now there is absaloutly NO oil stains on my driveway or anything it just looses oil as its being driven... which would explain a build up of oil pressure and leaking as im driving?but it isnt blueing or anything (buring oil).

anyone got a manuel for my car or somthing that you can post up to see what this pulley is?as it looks a mixture of the sump and the pully to me.

or can shed some light on the subject?

many thanks all.

[spitfire123]

just to add,

My oil light has not come on at any period scince owning the car.

[welshie_miles]

just to add,

My oil light has not come on at any period scince owning the car.

Nah usually you get a beeping noise going round corners quickly the oil moves around) then you know you are very very very low. Think the oil light is usually for no pressure. My audi is quite prone to drinking, oil yet leaves no puddles or anything.

[DONFRAMAC]

just to add,

My oil light has not come on at any period scince owning the car.

Your engine is old enough to be definately the range that had hydraulic tappets/narrow oil-ways/sticky valve-stems, that required special "Ford-spec 5W30 oil", and was withdrawn from service later to be modded, returning to service with bucket tappets, and bigger oil-ways, and anybody's 5W30 oil would do. (Revised engine first fitted to Mk 6 fiesta)

SO, for your engine, flush-out the oil-ways in time-honoured style, (I used "FORTE" brand additive on my ROVER 25 TD which had hydraulic tappets ), and use the proper FORD spec oil 5W30, bought from them. It is possible that the oil pump has met so much pumping resistance, that a seal is leaking now, but should be less pronounced after the flush and oil/filter change. One thing you can't do with early zetec engines, is to use heavier oil than 5W30, in ANY circumstances. (Some cars now actually use 5W20 oil, e.g. the 2009 Toyota Aygo, and 0W60 oil is available for high performance use)

[spitfire123]

Your engine is old enough to be definately the range that had hydraulic tappets/narrow oil-ways/sticky valve-stems, that required special "Ford-spec 5W30 oil", and was withdrawn from service later to be modded, returning to service with bucket tappets, and bigger oil-ways, and anybody's 5W30 oil would do. (Revised engine first fitted to Mk 6 fiesta)

SO, for your engine, flush-out the oil-ways in time-honoured style, (I used "FORTE" brand additive on my ROVER 25 TD which had hydraulic tappets ), and use the proper FORD spec oil 5W30, bought from them. It is possible that the oil pump has met so much pumping resistance, that a seal is leaking now, but should be less pronounced after the flush and oil/filter change. One thing you can't do with early zetec engines, is to use heavier oil than 5W30, in ANY circumstances. (Some cars now actually use 5W20 oil, e.g. the 2009 Toyota Aygo, and 0W60 oil is available for high performance use)

Wow alot of info there, you seem to know your z-tecs :-)

anyway back on topic:

this additive you use to de-gunk the valve stems? whit is it like redex and you put it in the oil?and how long do i leave it in there for before i change the oil to 5w30 as you say?

i have no idea what oil is in it at the moment as the bloke befoe me serviced it before i bought it so have no idea what oil he used..but have been topping up with castol (halfords)5w30, which ill do the oil change with.

and as regards to the oil pump... looks like its leaking at the verry bottom of my engine is the water pump?and that looks to be leaking oil?is this right? as all the other pullys are clean apart from this suspet pully with half its housing coverd in oil.

i take it its a new water pump and gaket? i think ill do the sup gasket aswell while im at it as that looks a bit perrished and dont want to put new oil in to find it has to be taken off again.

so this is needed:

water pump/gasket

additive stuff (not sire what thiis is exacly, if someone could post a link taht would be good)

new oil filter

new sump gasket.

how much are the sump gaket and waterpump gasket likley to cost on my 1.25 z-tec s engine?

any help to the above is much apriciated.

thanks all

[spitfire123]

okay so far this is what ive come up with

forte engine flush £6.95:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-X-GENUINE-ADVANCE-...id=p3286.c0.m14

water pump(dont no if this comes with gasket) £25:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-WATER-PUMP-FIEST...id=p3286.c0.m14

service kit including plugs oil filter etc £25 : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SERVICE-KIT-FORD-FIE...id=p3286.c0.m14

sump gasket for my ally sump i cant find unfortanatly.

cheers

[DONFRAMAC]

okay so far this is what ive come up with

forte engine flush £6.95:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-X-GENUINE-ADVANCE-...id=p3286.c0.m14

water pump(dont no if this comes with gasket) £25:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-WATER-PUMP-FIEST...id=p3286.c0.m14

service kit including plugs oil filter etc £25 : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SERVICE-KIT-FORD-FIE...id=p3286.c0.m14

sump gasket for my ally sump i cant find unfortanatly.

cheers

P.S. I must emphasise, that only the Ford Approved oil for this vintage of zetec engine will do the job safely;-- even Mobil 1 5W30 fully synth is no use because of the inherent design faults. Only the redesigned zetecs can take non-Ford oil, and you must quote the year of your car to the Ford storeman, to get the correct oil. If you consult the opieoils website, and quote your year of car, and then try 2003, for a quote of the correct oil, the website will come up with 2 different specs.

Only Ford is a reliable source of oil for your car. ( they once had to have a special fully synth oil for early 5-speed Sierra gearboxes, until a redesigned 'box got fitted, and the oil was only available from Ford, and your gearbox, and later ones, of the IB/IB5 type have such a reputation for baulky gear-changes, that a special fully synth version of Castrol SMX gear oil, called Castrol SMX-S, is fitted as standard, and is also used by other manufacturers who have "difficult" 'boxes. Even the Transit 'box and diff use it.)

[spitfire123]

hi mate,

okay i see what your saying.

right questions..

1) that is the opeoil website link?

2) i will also be changing my gearbox oil on my car as its a very clunky change so i need a specal oil for this aswell?

3) also this additive that i put in this oil i have in it now to clean the valve stems?when i buyy it how long do i leave it in there for? or do i put it in with the NEW oil?

thanks very much.

top man!

[spitfire123]

okay just found the website, and it came up with this..

Motul FORD SPECIFIC 913B 5W-30 Ford Gasoline and Diesel engine oil Technosynthese

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-882-motul-ford...nosynthese.aspx

i tae it this is the one i need?

[coysht]

2) i will also be changing my gearbox oil on my car as its a very clunky change so i need a specal oil for this aswell?

The clunky gearbox could well actually be the clutch (wearing of the springs rather than friction material) - that was certainly the case on a couple of '98 1.25 fiesta's I've driven.

Is it worse on 1st, 3rd and reverse gears?

[spitfire123]

The clunky gearbox could well actually be the clutch (wearing of the springs rather than friction material) - that was certainly the case on a couple of '98 1.25 fiesta's I've driven.

Is it worse on 1st, 3rd and reverse gears?

not particulary mate.

it happens every so often in a couple of gears.

clutch is perfct on the car.

cheers

[spitfire123]

UPDATE regards to oil leak:

right took the plugs out and they are knackerd (hardly any electrode left) so they need rplacing but the plugs are a decent colour and aren fithy black with oil....so its defenatly not blueing.

anyway i realised that the component coverd in oil Isnt the water pump that's furthur up...so its the oil pump (by process of illimination,lol).

BUT saying that the bloke before me who had the car (who was a mechanic) looks to have taken the sump off and replaced it not with a gasket but with liquid gasket (the rubber silicon crap) and it looks to be leaking fron the O/S of the sump...anyway went round all of the bolts and most of them had 1/2 of tignting in them with a 1/4 rachet.

so it looks to be the sump gasket.

But i have found another bigger problem....the low end does sound a bit 'tappy' towards the O/S i mean its like a verry faint knocking sound?...so if i take the sump off how easy are the bearing shells to get to on the bottom end of the conrods while laying underneeth the car? id assume its an un-bolt and drop out job as regards to the beariong shells? leaving the crank in of corse.

cheers all.

[DONFRAMAC]

UPDATE regards to oil leak:

right took the plugs out and they are knackerd (hardly any electrode left) so they need rplacing but the plugs are a decent colour and aren fithy black with oil....so its defenatly not blueing.

anyway i realised that the component coverd in oil Isnt the water pump that's furthur up...so its the oil pump (by process of illimination,lol).

BUT saying that the bloke before me who had the car (who was a mechanic) looks to have taken the sump off and replaced it not with a gasket but with liquid gasket (the rubber silicon crap) and it looks to be leaking fron the O/S of the sump...anyway went round all of the bolts and most of them had 1/2 of tignting in them with a 1/4 rachet.

so it looks to be the sump gasket.

But i have found another bigger problem....the low end does sound a bit 'tappy' towards the O/S i mean its like a verry faint knocking sound?...so if i take the sump off how easy are the bearing shells to get to on the bottom end of the conrods while laying underneeth the car? id assume its an un-bolt and drop out job as regards to the beariong shells? leaving the crank in of corse.

cheers all.

The poor delivery rate of oil to the crank bearings will make them more vocal. Add the flushing additive to the present oil, when it is hot, then start it up again, and run it on fast idle for at least 10 minutes, before dumping the oil. Of course, you will be taking the sump off, and fitting a proper gasket, and I would suggest a new oil pump and gasket, and auxilliaries belt, before changing the oil filter, and filling with the proper spec oil. When the sump is off, clean the base of the sump pan, and if it has not been cleared of gunk by the flushing oil additive, then the pan needs manual cleaning, followed by another flushing, until the drained oil is clean, then a new filter + fresh oil should be flowing thro' clean oil-ways, including those vital drillings in the crank-shaft that lube the big-end & main-bearing shells, and squirt up to the bores, and go up drillings to the cylinder-head to fill the tappet capsules etc. (P.S. the type of liquid gasket presently in use, is well known to swell in contact with hydrocarbons, as I found out in 1989 when a junior mechanic used it on my Austin Maestro carb. I got 2 miles away before the jets blocked up. I took the car to another garage.)

Regarding the renewal of crank-shaft shell-bearings, I don't think the 2 end main-bearings can be done in-situe, but the noises may well be just due to the low oil-flow, as mentioned, and the aluminium construction of the engine is well known to exaggerate internal noises, as I can attest to in relation to a Renault 5 with a 850 cc engine with an aluminium head, wet-liner cylinders, and a warbly-note from the 3-main-bearing crank, that I just could not tolerate. I traded that in for a Fiat 127 CL 1050 cc, with 5-main-bearing crank & bored block & OHC, as soon as possible.

[spitfire123]

ok cheers for the info mate.

is this oil i quoted above the right oil for my car?

says ford specific?

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-882-motul-ford...nosynthese.aspx

any why cant i change all 4 crank shells together when i tak eoff the sump?

thanks again

[DONFRAMAC]

ok cheers for the info mate.

is this oil i quoted above the right oil for my car?

says ford specific?

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-882-motul-ford...nosynthese.aspx

any why cant i change all 4 crank shells together when i tak eoff the sump?

thanks again

Yes, that MOTUL oil you found, IS correct for early zetec engines, -- pre-upgrade to the Mk 6 fiesta form. To get total confirmation, you are always welcome to 'phone the oilmen at opieoils, as they are very friendly folk, and know their onions.

If you actually have a drain plug on your gearbox, then the superior "fix" to difficult 'boxes, is the current-spec oil, Castrol SMX-S, a fully synthetic gear oil, that is used by more than one manufacturer, but some 'box problems are due to cable adjustment being needed. ( 2 cables enter a black plastic box at the front of the 'box, and are the main place for corrective tweaks to be done, apart from under the gear-lever, where major sloppiness can be originated.) ( Other companies make an equivalent to the Castrol gear oil.)

P.S. your 4-pot engine crank is supported by 5 main-bearings ( i.e. one each end + another between each cylinder, and I really am not fully sure that the end ones are out-of-reach, a look at a Haynes manual would be reccommended.)

[spitfire123]

Yes, that MOTUL oil you found, IS correct for early zetec engines, -- pre-upgrade to the Mk 6 fiesta form. To get total confirmation, you are always welcome to 'phone the oilmen at opieoils, as they are very friendly folk, and know their onions.

If you actually have a drain plug on your gearbox, then the superior "fix" to difficult 'boxes, is the current-spec oil, Castrol SMX-S, a fully synthetic gear oil, that is used by more than one manufacturer, but some 'box problems are due to cable adjustment being needed. ( 2 cables enter a black plastic box at the front of the 'box, and are the main place for corrective tweaks to be done, apart from under the gear-lever, where major sloppiness can be originated.) ( Other companies make an equivalent to the Castrol gear oil.)

P.S. your 4-pot engine crank is supported by 5 main-bearings ( i.e. one each end + another between each cylinder, and I really am not fully sure that the end ones are out-of-reach, a look at a Haynes manual would be reccommended.)

ok cheers for the info mate,

not goint o bother doing the big end as the knockinh as suddenly disapeared, a mate who has the same engine says his comes and goes so i supose ots normal.

so this gear oil? i dont think there is a drain plug on my engine?

there are two allan kep bolts (i pressume 1 if for level) but i dont see any drain plug.

will ook for the Castrol SMX-S, a fully synthetic gear oil on the web. 1-litre should do the trick shouldent it?

cheers

[DONFRAMAC]

ok cheers for the info mate,

not goint o bother doing the big end as the knockinh as suddenly disapeared, a mate who has the same engine says his comes and goes so i supose ots normal.

so this gear oil? i dont think there is a drain plug on my engine?

there are two allan kep bolts (i pressume 1 if for level) but i dont see any drain plug.

will ook for the castrol SMX-S, a fully synthetic gear oil on the web. 1-litre should do the trick shouldent it?

cheers

Halfords stocks the Castrol SMX-S gearbox oil, at about £13 per litre, as you would expect for its high spec. The volume, you have grossly underestimated, although I am sure it is less than 4 litres.

My handbook does not bother to quote it, as it is supposed to be a sealed-for-life 'box. I personally would change it if I could, at the age your car is, but the only way to dump a lot of gear oil is to disconnect a drive-shaft at the diff', and try to syphon a bit more out of the boot area.

The "full" level of the gear oil is below the top-up hole, and a special little probe is used in Ford workshops to dip thro' the hole, to see if the level is just reached. Too much oil is likely to overpressurise the input seal, and result in oil blowing through onto the clutch.

Nothing seems easy any-more. Changing a head-light bulb is no longer a task an owner can do.

[DONFRAMAC]

Halfords stocks the Castrol SMX-S gearbox oil, at about £13 per litre, as you would expect for its high spec. The volume, you have grossly underestimated, although I am sure it is less than 4 litres.

My handbook does not bother to quote it, as it is supposed to be a sealed-for-life 'box. I personally would change it if I could, at the age your car is, but the only way to dump a lot of gear oil is to disconnect a drive-shaft at the diff', and try to syphon a bit more out of the boot area.

The "full" level of the gear oil is below the top-up hole, and a special little probe is used in Ford workshops to dip thro' the hole, to see if the level is just reached. Too much oil is likely to overpressurise the input seal, and result in oil blowing through onto the clutch.

Nothing seems easy any-more. Changing a head-light bulb is no longer a task an owner can do.

P.S. one good reason for the knocking noise coming and going, is thick engine oil preventing a hydraulic tappet from filling for a period, during which it will tap, then when good availability of oil is restored, the capsule will fill OK, and run silently. That is why these hydraulic-tappet engines need good quality clean oil, and your description of "gunky" oil under your sump, implies poor oil, or at least, it is a thick grade.

The flushing reccommended, is for the oil-ways, crank-bearings, bores, and the top-end, get cleaned of broken-down oil (carbon), so that fresh low-viscosity oil can be delivered quickly to bearings/bores/tappet capsules. Modern engines have such fine engineering tolerances that they demand rapid oil delivery, and that means low-viscosity, and high shear-resistance, so it costs more. Sludged-up oil-ways will cause wear, by oil-starvation, and if your engine becomes an oil-burner after doing this work, you don't have the old option of upping the oil grade. Bore-wear could be revealed by this work, and lead to an engine-swap.