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pistolpete1

To diesel, or not to diesel.....that is the question!

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As per the title I'm unsure whether the travelling I do warrants the use of a diesel engine. I've driven petrol all my life, but these days I do travel further to work 4 days of the week. It involves 4 miles of town, followed by 18 miles on an A road, which tends to be 60mph , with a stretch that is a 70mph dual carriageway. 

The rest of the week involves shorter journey, with some a few miles long and others about 10 miles. My main dilemma is whether this type of travelling will cause issues with a dpf, thus increasing the cost of ownership if it fails. I did speak to a dealership recently, and they suggested a single trip of about 25 miles each week would 'keep the dpf ' happy,  and clog free, so I'm kinda on the board line. 

Has anyone got any thoughts on this......as I've found a few tempting 2013 Ford Focus 1.6 tdci titaniums for sale!! :)

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Have Ford sorted out the coolant hose failure on the turbo petrol yet? Kind of put off looking at turbo petrols at the moment. ....Ford and the hose problem.....vauxhall and the oil problem on their turbo petrols. .....hmmmm! 

 

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33 minutes ago, pistolpete1 said:

As per the title I'm unsure whether the travelling I do warrants the use of a diesel engine. I've driven petrol all my life, but these days I do travel further to work 4 days of the week. It involves 4 miles of town, followed by 18 miles on an A road, which tends to be 60mph , with a stretch that is a 70mph dual carriageway. 

The rest of the week involves shorter journey, with some a few miles long and others about 10 miles. My main dilemma is whether this type of travelling will cause issues with a dpf, thus increasing the cost of ownership if it fails. I did speak to a dealership recently, and they suggested a single trip of about 25 miles each week would 'keep the dpf ' happy,  and clog free, so I'm kinda on the board line. 

Has anyone got any thoughts on this......as I've found a few tempting 2013 Ford Focus 1.6 tdci titaniums for sale!! :)

I was in the same boat and had pretty much always driven petrol.   Weekly use is not that different to you, but several times a year we travel a fair bit i.e. Highlands, Cornwall, Lakes, Wales etc. I do very little town/city driving.

Had no problems with DPF or anything else (but do use premium diesel) and it's been great in hilly areas when fully loaded, where are previous 1.6 petrol struggled.

The main reason I chose diesel this time was running cost i.e. no road tax, much better MPG. I tried a 1L petrol 125 but didn't like it especially on the motorway and mpg wasn't great.

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48 minutes ago, avi said:

I was in the same boat and had pretty much always driven petrol.   Weekly use is not that different to you, but several times a year we travel a fair bit i.e. Highlands, Cornwall, Lakes, Wales etc. I do very little town/city driving.

Had no problems with DPF or anything else (but do use premium diesel) and it's been great in hilly areas when fully loaded, where are previous 1.6 petrol struggled.

The main reason I chose diesel this time was running cost i.e. no road tax, much better MPG. I tried a 1L petrol 125 but didn't like it especially on the motorway and mpg wasn't great.

Glad it's not just me going through this dilemma. Like you, we do occasionally travel further during the year too, so it seems it is do-able judging by your experiences. 

How do the servicing costs differ? Is it much more to service a modern diesel engine? 

I love the simplicity of naturally aspirated petrol engines, compared to all the turbo powered engines of today. Less complicity means less problems in my book, and throughout my time with petrol engines my ownership costs have been very good.

But as turbo diesels have been mainstream longer than turbo petrol engines,  I'm assuming that technology is more problem free. Both have turbos to go wrong now, so they are both starting on equal terms....thus the possible interest in a diesel driven Focus.

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16 minutes ago, pistolpete1 said:

Glad it's not just me going through this dilemma. Like you, we do occasionally travel further during the year too, so it seems it is do-able judging by your experiences. 

How do the servicing costs differ? Is it much more to service a modern diesel engine? 

I love the simplicity of naturally aspirated petrol engines, compared to all the turbo powered engines of today. Less complicity means less problems in my book, and throughout my time with petrol engines my ownership costs have been very good.

But as turbo diesels have been mainstream longer than turbo petrol engines,  I'm assuming that technology is more problem free. Both have turbos to go wrong now, so they are both starting on equal terms....thus the possible interest in a diesel driven Focus.

I use Ford dealer servicing due to warranty and the 12 month Ford Assist extension.   When I last checked service costs were the same i.e. £185 for an interim service in my area.

I always felt that I was really pushing the 1l petrol but the diesel feels more relaxed, especially on the motorway.

 

 

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But as turbo diesels have been mainstream longer than turbo petrol engines,  I'm assuming that technology is more problem free. Both have turbos to go wrong now, so they are both starting on equal terms....thus the possible interest in a diesel driven Focus.

err , turbo diesels problem free?? err no. i saw 10 times more diesel related issues than petrol.(inc the 1.0 ecoboost)

to be fair the 1.6tdci in the mk3 isnt that bad. the only issues i had were multiple injector failures, ocassional hpfp failure, inlet metering valve lazy, and most of all premature fuel filter blockages.

the egr, dpf , turbo and engine are reliable

servicing costs are simular even at 3 yrs when all the filters are changed, only diffence is fuel filter on diesel and plugs on petrol and they cost about the same.

 

 

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I have just changed from a Focus 1.6 180 Ecoboost to a Mondeo 2.0 210 Diesel. 

In my case both these vehicles have similar performance both 0~60 and top speed (if I were daft enough).

My average mileage per year over the last two years has been around 4600 as I only tend to use the car at weekends.

According to the research I have done on diesels with the DPF, your driving will be more than sufficient to pose no problems for you.

The costs of running either a diesel or a petrol engine are very very similar over 60,000 miles there is very little between them long term. You get more mpg in a diesel, but diesel costs more. Look after and service the car regularly, costs will also be similar. With generally high  engine torque a diesel has lots of midrange pulling power and cruises at just over idle. Petrol engines sound better under acceleration especially with a sound symposer but you may need to work the gears more.

So for me, I miss the roarty exhaust of the petrol but not the 33mpg, as for the diesel, It has a dual clutch auto, I like the lazy easy auto gear changes, I like the 47-55mpg. I like the effortless overtaking and the 450nm of torque.

As to reliability, previous Ford Cars includes the mileage from and to when I owned them.

1. Petrol Escort 1.6 head gasket failed at new-134,000 miles scrapped. 

2. C-max 1.6 Diesel 16-80,000 (54 plate) which I gave to my dad and still going strong.

3. C-max 2.0 Diesel 12-138,000 (56 plate) never had a problem, part ex it.

4. Focus 1.6 petrol 180 (62 plate) with a never resolved v slight coolant leak part ex at 5-34,000 miles last December but never off the road and always reliable.

The choice as they say is yours.

Final point, Government is demonising diesels, some cities like London charge you for the privilege of owning one, yet the newest diesels and regenerative DPF pollute less.

Personally with your commute I'd go diesel and opt for an auto, but maybe not the dry clutch version in the Focus.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lars G said:

Final point, Government is demonising diesels, some cities like London charge you for the privilege of owning one, yet the newest diesels and regenerative DPF pollute less.

 

Not sure if you mean the toxic tax for London, but that also applies to petrol depending on the euro emission of the car i.e. pre Euro 4. Euro 6 diesel cars  do not pay to enter the current LEZ or ULEZ that comes into effect in 2019.

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Tbh you could just get a naturally apsirated petrol (1.6), and any additional cost in fuel would be offset by the numerous problems you would have later down the line with the tdci unit lol

But it's no longer 2003, so I'd go for a turbo petrol. Pretty sure the recent ones have had most of the bugs ironed out.

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my 1.0 ecoboost got no bugs to iron , on 60k and remapped

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, iantt said:

err , turbo diesels problem free?? err no. i saw 10 times more diesel related issues than petrol.(inc the 1.0 ecoboost)

to be fair the 1.6tdci in the mk3 isnt that bad. the only issues i had were multiple injector failures, ocassional hpfp failure, inlet metering valve lazy, and most of all premature fuel filter blockages.

the egr, dpf , turbo and engine are reliable

servicing costs are simular even at 3 yrs when all the filters are changed, only diffence is fuel filter on diesel and plugs on petrol and they cost about the same.

 

 

Might just get on my bicycle after reading this! 😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, avi said:

Not sure if you mean the toxic tax for London, but that also applies to petrol depending on the euro emission of the car i.e. pre Euro 4. Euro 6 diesel cars  do not pay to enter the current LEZ or ULEZ that comes into effect in 2019.

Luckily I avoid London like the plague! 😂😂

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2 hours ago, Lars G said:

I have just changed from a Focus 1.6 180 Ecoboost to a Mondeo 2.0 210 Diesel. 

In my case both these vehicles have similar performance both 0~60 and top speed (if I were daft enough).

My average mileage per year over the last two years has been around 4600 as I only tend to use the car at weekends.

According to the research I have done on diesels with the DPF, your driving will be more than sufficient to pose no problems for you.

The costs of running either a diesel or a petrol engine are very very similar over 60,000 miles there is very little between them long term. You get more mpg in a diesel, but diesel costs more. Look after and service the car regularly, costs will also be similar. With generally high  engine torque a diesel has lots of midrange pulling power and cruises at just over idle. Petrol engines sound better under acceleration especially with a sound symposer but you may need to work the gears more.

So for me, I miss the roarty exhaust of the petrol but not the 33mpg, as for the diesel, It has a dual clutch auto, I like the lazy easy auto gear changes, I like the 47-55mpg. I like the effortless overtaking and the 450nm of torque.

As to reliability, previous Ford Cars includes the mileage from and to when I owned them.

1. Petrol Escort 1.6 head gasket failed at new-134,000 miles scrapped. 

2. C-max 1.6 Diesel 16-80,000 (54 plate) which I gave to my dad and still going strong.

3. C-max 2.0 Diesel 12-138,000 (56 plate) never had a problem, part ex it.

4. Focus 1.6 petrol 180 (62 plate) with a never resolved v slight coolant leak part ex at 5-34,000 miles last December but never off the road and always reliable.

The choice as they say is yours.

Final point, Government is demonising diesels, some cities like London charge you for the privilege of owning one, yet the newest diesels and regenerative DPF pollute less.

Personally with your commute I'd go diesel and opt for an auto, but maybe not the dry clutch version in the Focus.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to type this post. Not sure I fancy an auto box....my left hand would get bored. 

Nice to hear your (and others) thoughts on diesel vs my daily commutes. Sounds like diesel power would be an option to consider, rather than a definite no no.

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18 minutes ago, iantt said:

my 1.0 ecoboost got no bugs to iron , on 60k and remapped

 

 

 

 

Have you had the hosepipe that cracks replaced then? Read some horror stories online about engines being scrapped due to this problem, and Ford not creating a recall for it. 

Have I got that correct? The pipe is something to do with the coolant for the turbo?

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1 hour ago, Incontro said:

Tbh you could just get a naturally apsirated petrol (1.6), and any additional cost in fuel would be offset by the numerous problems you would have later down the line with the tdci unit lol

But it's no longer 2003, so I'd go for a turbo petrol. Pretty sure the recent ones have had most of the bugs ironed out.

Got one of those already....my mk 2.5 is the 1.8 petrol engine (58k miles). Before the recently replaced battery I was getting around 36mpg from this engine. Currently building that back up due to the restart of the counters after replacement. Currently it's 33mpg. 

My initial thought was to move to a turbo petrol, but with all these stories online about Ford and Vauxhall turbo petrol going wrong, I'm a little put off them at the moment. 

 

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33mph ? That’s not fast, try changing in to 3rd gear lol 

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10 minutes ago, drsdriver said:

33mph ? That’s not fast, try changing in to 3rd gear lol 

***** predictive text! Well spotted. .....

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6 hours ago, pistolpete1 said:

I love the simplicity of naturally aspirated petrol engines, compared to all the turbo powered engines of today. Less complicity means less problems in my book, and throughout my time with petrol engines my ownership costs have been very good.

This is the very reason I went for the 1.8 Duratec. I did own a 2010 Vauxhall Astra 1.7 diesel for six months, the difference in torque to what I was used to was amazing, though the mpg wasn't as good as I expected, I really wanted a Focus Zetec S so six months later I god rid.

My 1.8 petrol has been pretty reliable since I bought it two and a half years ago. It was high mileage when I bought it on 82000 and it's now on 105000. Only down side is the mpg only getting high 20s low 30s.

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I like diesels as a daily, the 1.6 td I've got atm is just shy of 200 ft/lb , (which is a bit rubbish tbh, my last car a 2ltr S40 had double 😕), but power is were you can use it @2500-3000 rpm. 

Saying that, there's something about reving a petrol to the redline  😁

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35 minutes ago, wilto said:

This is the very reason I went for the 1.8 Duratec. I did own a 2010 Vauxhall Astra 1.7 diesel for six months, the difference in torque to what I was used to was amazing, though the mpg wasn't as good as I expected, I really wanted a Focus Zetec S so six months later I god rid.

My 1.8 petrol has been pretty reliable since I bought it two and a half years ago. It was high mileage when I bought it on 82000 and it's now on 105000. Only down side is the mpg only getting high 20s low 30s.

My two previous Mondeo's were using the same engine, and although one used up some oil both were very dependable. This is part reason I got this 1.8 Titanium. 

Judging by your mileage, mine has loads of life left in it. Have you ever had to replace the clutch on it? If so, what does it cost on these engines?

High 20's to low 30's. ...heavy foot.? 😂

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8 minutes ago, pistolpete1 said:

My two previous Mondeo's were using the same engine, and although one used up some oil both were very dependable. This is part reason I got this 1.8 Titanium. 

Judging by your mileage, mine has loads of life left in it. Have you ever had to replace the clutch on it? If so, what does it cost on these engines?

High 20's to low 30's. ...heavy foot.? 😂

No exactly the opposite, I NEVER drive more than 75ish and change up at around 3000 rpm, I'm starting to think my hego/ lambda sensors are on the way out, passed MOT emmisions in November with no issues. Got a new air filter on order to see if that will improve it, replaced it when I bought the car, 23000 miles ago.

Have changed my clutch, it went on me at 92000, it was the concentric slave cylinder that went not the clutch, replaced with a 3 piece LUK clutch kit, cost £120 on eBay, and my mate's garage fitted it for £250.

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Went to Minehead last year. Filled up, then filled up again on our return.  Worked out mpg to be 43 for that journey! Not bad when fully loaded with stuff.

Heard a new clutch was quite expensive, but in the past I tend to sell around 80-85k miles to avoid that bill.

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i find that on a good day a diesel takes approx. 7 miles of motorway before you get good mpg, within that first 7 miles ive found it no better than petrol and in some cases (getting to the motorway) actually worse than petrol. Personally, I don't think you do enough to make a diesel worth it. I do about 30 miles each way, the vast majority of that is motorway, older petrols would kill me on fuel costs but newer petrols are so good I'm struggling to justify it.  

Then you have the lepers tax to consider, even tho there is no actual direct proof, just extrapolated predictions based on theory's, diesels are the new antichrist in this new world we live in. you can expect more cities to follow the diesel tax model. I find it amusing that diesel cars are given such a hard time considering they only contribute something like 8% of the harmful gasses produced. but its the new trend I suppose. just need to live with it until something else comes along to moan about.

 

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