Hi all,  I will likely be looking to change my Mk2 to a Mk4 when we are all allowed back out of confinement.  It will be either new or nearly new (<1 yr) depending on the deals available, estate version and diesel engine due to doing reasonably long distances and no town driving.  I would be interested in your feedback on 1.5 vs 2.0 litre diesel engine options for things like reliability and fuel efficiency.  Also any other tips on trim options and extras welcomed, though I am veering towards Titanium or Tit X versions.

On my Mk2 I got the engine remapped, DPF deleted and EGR blanked with very good results.  What is the current thinking on the benefit of doing this on newer models - ok I know that eliminating the DPF has become a no-no but are EGRs still the pain they have always been?

 

Thanks in advance for your help

I guess nobody has looked into this before, or maybe if these engines are newly developed there has not been any long term feedback yet?  I didn't do enough research at the time I bought my Mk2 1.6 TDCi and didn't know of all the issues around blowing turbos so trying to be better informed this time around.  As it happens my preventative measures on the Mk2 has kept it running well for 150,000 miles, maybe more by luck than anything else though!

As you say, they're far too new to establish any long term reliability!  Anything that breaks currently is under warranty anyway. 

EGR is used during DPF regen, it shouldn't really be removed alone, but it's illegal anyway as you're aware. 

Slightly unrelated but my old 1.6TDCi Mk2.5 has finally failed MOT due to the DPF removal now.  

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

As you say, they're far too new to establish any long term reliability!  Anything that breaks currently is under warranty anyway. 

EGR is used during DPF regen, it shouldn't really be removed alone, but it's illegal anyway as you're aware. 

Slightly unrelated but my old 1.6TDCi Mk2.5 has finally failed MOT due to the DPF removal now.  

You're probably right Tom, not enough experience yet and I'm sure Ford won't be shouting from the rooftop about any persistent issues coming back under warranty!  I'm thinking I will go for the 2 ltr, but they do seem less common than the 1.6 so probably less good deals around on nearly new.

How did the tester pick up on the DPF, and what does the new owner think about that (am I right in remembering you had sold it)?

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, south_bound said:

You're probably right Tom, not enough experience yet and I'm sure Ford won't be shouting from the rooftop about any persistent issues coming back under warranty!  I'm thinking I will go for the 2 ltr, but they do seem less common than the 1.6 so probably less good deals around on nearly new.

How did the tester pick up on the DPF, and what does the new owner think about that (am I right in remembering you had sold it)?

2 litre is probably the way I'd go tbh...there's no replacement for displacement after all.   I've had a 2.0 TDI Golf for nearly 2 years now, don't regret it at all, tax, insurance and MPG is the same as the 1.6 Focus's (I had a Mk2.5 & a Mk3) but tonnes more torque and a much smoother drive.

I don't know the new owner, it was sold again since I sold it, I just checked the MOT history while bored recently lol.  Failed early March (before lockdown) and wasn't put in for retest.  My guess is they'll scrap it, not worth trying to reinstate the DPF, EGR & Eolys system. 

The 2.0 TDCi is a great engine, if you are doing the miles/journeys for a diesel.

Be warned, it is thirsty though.

The 1.5 was fitted to the MK3.5 for a bit, it's not new to the Mk4.

Thanks for that.  I take it the 2 ltr is a new engine for the Mk 4?  If so, would I be better waiting until the Mk 4.5 so Ford can iron out any design flaws like they( eventually) did with the Mk2 1.6TDCi?  Are Ford collaborating with other manufacturers on engines nowadays, like they did with PSA/Volvo a while back?

1 minute ago, south_bound said:

Thanks for that.  I take it the 2 ltr is a new engine for the Mk 4?  If so, would I be better waiting until the Mk 4.5 so Ford can iron out any design flaws like they( eventually) did with the Mk2 1.6TDCi?  Are Ford collaborating with other manufacturers on engines nowadays, like they did with PSA/Volvo a while back?

No the 2.0 is still basically the same PSA engine they’ve been using for 10+ years. It’s just been refined and added to over that time.

Ah OK, so the 2 ltr has some history and should be reliable enough then, depending on all the other stuff that is bolted onto it and electronics used to control them.  

I've found some good examples of nearly new Mk 4s with 2 ltr diesel engine and lots of options included - winter pack, electric boot lid, panoramic roof, tinted windows, reverse camera, integrated GPS etc.   One question when comparing prices, are the optional extras priced as per the ford website when actually added to a new car specification, or do the dealers "throw in" these as part of a negotiation? I have never bought a new car built to order so just wondering if the quoted prices for options are real or just a way of saying it is worth £x as part of a deal.  The advert claims the new price including options to be over £30k which looks right when you add them up but wonder if that is just marketing guff.

Another thing, the one I am looking at also has 18" alloys fitted as an option. I think I read here that 18"causes the ride to be quite harsh and might not be a good selling point.  Any thoughts on this?  There is no mention of the spare wheel so I imagine it will be just a can of squirty stuff, so I will factor in getting a spare separately myself.

2.0 in the standard Focus is 150bhp, but given that it's 190bhp in the ST and Kuga it should be nicely remappable.

With kit I think that although Ford charges us hundreds for extra packs, it actually costs them pennies in the factory so I reckon they load some cars up to shift them, especially diesel cos its going out of favour these days.

You can see this if you look at new cars that the dealers have had in stock for a while.  "£1900 of factory options" they say, but the car itself is massively discounted cos I don't think the dealer paid 1900 quid.

It's just marketing guff.  No-one pays full price for optional extras.  Dealers often run 'limited' deals with a few options as well, so you may get pearlescent paint thrown in free if you take a limited lease deal rather than speccing a factory build for example.  Wouldn't take any notice of that in ads, just look for the options you actually want.

With regards to 18s, the estates (and possibly 2.0TDCis?) all come with the independent rear suspension as far as I'm aware.  They're likely to be a bit harsh on the twist beam setup of lesser hatches!  It's one of things where you'd really have to test drive and see what you think.  I tend to avoid 18s as I'm very sensitive to ride comfort but haven't driven a Mk4 yet.

I think you're both right - these 1 year old cars are either ex-demo or rental cars which no one paid full price for and they can get better second hand prices with the optional extras.  Its a pity that the ones that have what I want also have a load of other stuff I don't so I just need to keep an eye on what comes up in the adverts.

On the wheel sizes, are you saying that 18s might be better suited to an estate version because of the independent suspension?  Its an estate I am looking to get.  Is there any difference in wear (for the same driving style and conditions) between 16 and 18"?  I see new tyres at 18" are more expensive so racking up the miles will add to the tyre replacement budget as well.

If you're only looking at 1 year old, do they depreciate so much that it's not a similar price just to spec a brand new one with the exact stuff you want instead of buying an over-specced used one with a year less warranty?  I'm sure dealers will be practically giving new cars away once people are finally allowed back into showrooms!

Yeah, sorry, I worded that really poorly lol.  I would expect a smoother ride on 18s with IRS than without, especially if you take any rear passengers.  You would have to double check that all the estates still come with IRS though as I'm not 100% sure if it was dropped mid production.

Hmm, good question regarding tyre wear, I've swapped wheels on plenty of cars but never kept them long enough to guage any difference in tyre wear.  The 18" tyres themselves cost more though as you say.  

 

It seems that Titanium spec cars generally have more options added than the lower trim versions, so you get all the Titanium bells and whistles anyway.  Personally I am not that fussed on the driving aids such as traffic sign recognition, lane assist, hill start hold, obstruction emergency stop and all that.  OK if it gives you the information to make decisions while driving, but not when it constrains the way you want  to drive based on what it thinks it sees and is programmed to react.  Like the other thread where the hand brake won't disengage if the door or boot lid is not closed (yes there are times when I do that).  I could live without it all but it doesn't seem to be an option any more!  Anyway, rant over.

Change of subject - .I see some cars advertised as having tow preparation installed, which I imagine is the wiring harness ready to plug the tow bar electric cable into?  No tow bar installed so that would be up to me which is ok.  However when I look up tow bars on the PF Jones website the wiring harness with or without TP installed is the same or even more expensive than not - so what is the advantage?  On my Mk 2 I just spliced into each of the light cables in the boot and it worked, but I guess with LEDs and complex electronics I can't do that any more either.

The ones with the tow bar prep do a few fancy things that you don't get when splicing into the wires in the boot. The car detects that a trailer is connected and disables the reversing sensors and the rear fog light on the car. This stops the reversing beep annoying you because it is detecting the trailer, and prevents you from being dazzled by the fog light reflecting off your white caravan.  

Ah, OK so if I don't need/want the fancy things and just for the lights to work on the lighting board then can I still just splice into the cables in the boot in the old fashioned way?

46 minutes ago, south_bound said:

Ah, OK so if I don't need/want the fancy things and just for the lights to work on the lighting board then can I still just splice into the cables in the boot in the old fashioned way?

Yes, but you'll have to put up with the constant BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP from the rear parking sensors!  

You can disable them every time you start the car but that's gonna get annoying, and also means you lose the front sensors - sounds unnecessary but the front visibility was awful on the Mk3, no idea where the front end actually was, I don't know if that's any better on the Mk4 but I doubt it!

There is also a more serious use of the tow prep though, it includes 'sway control', which essentially alters the way the ESP works to control a snaking trailer should that issue ever arise.  You may also get CANBUS issues with a generic scotch lock job, causing bulb failure warnings and stopping the car 'sleeping', causing dead batteries.  Honestly it's much better to go for the proper kit nowadays...  It's not a cheap car and you're obviously intending to keep it a while anyway.  

You're right, I intend to keep it as long as practical, that's why I am cautious on all the tech stuff that sounds great when new but can start to fail after a few years and can cost more to fix than the value of the car after 10 years.  By then if things stop working I can decide if they were really useful or I can just live without - fine if they are stand alone but a real pain if they are all interconnected and the sensor on one thing affects others from working properly.  Its probably part of the built-in obsolescence to get you to buy a new one before you are ready.

I was looking at one model that has the electric opening boot lid where you move your foot under the rear bumper to open it - useful or just a gimmick?  What happens if you want to transport something that is just too long to fit and it has to stick out a bit with the boot tied down onto it - will the electric boot cope with that? 

Isn't it technically illegal to transport things with the boot open?  I've done it myself but was never really sure!  

I'm not sure how the electronic tailgate actually works, must be some sort of motor, presumably acting on a ram?  Interesting question!!  As to how useful it is, I guess it depends how often you use the boot and what for...I can see that it could be helpful if you're carrying a baby in one arm and shopping in the other...  But for myself the only benefit would be not getting my hand covered in all the road grime I should've washed off the tailgate weeks ago!

 

Honestly, I'm not sure todays cars will last more than 10 years...I may be proved very wrong but tech moves on so quickly now and with the ever decreasing CO2 targets they don't want cars to be on the road for too long...  I wouldn't be at all surprised if diesel private cars were completely banned in urban areas at some point as well.

Yeah,probably just a gimmick to show off to your mates but not that useful for most people in real life!

Looks like I will have to start looking at 1960s classics - simple mechanics and no electronics.  Though it would probably spend most of its life up on axle stands waiting on spares from some specialist supplier and I would have to join the enthusiasts forum...  As an aside, I have a trailer that uses wheels and hubs from the classic mini and one of the brake cylinder retaining clips had fallen off. I was surprised at the number of specialist parts suppliers that had the exact clip in stock and could send it out same day, all in for the princley sum of £1.04.

No, you're all missing the point.   Modern cars are great!  I mean who wants to actually physically turn a volume knob when you could be twiddling your hands in the air like a ***** wizard?

😀

2 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

No, you're all missing the point.   Modern cars are great!  I mean who wants to actually physically turn a volume knob when you could be twiddling your hands in the air like a ***** wizard?

😀

Can't remember the last time I had to twist a volume knob, even my 90's 306s had steering wheel controls!

Gesture control might work on BMWs...but I'm dreading Fords effort!  

4 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Can't remember the last time I had to twist a volume knob, even my 90's 306s had steering wheel controls!

Gesture control might work on BMWs...but I'm dreading Fords effort!  

I don’t think it really works that well on BMW’s either 😂

On 6/1/2020 at 8:41 AM, TomsFocus said:

Isn't it technically illegal to transport things with the boot open?  I've done it myself but was never really sure!

I believe it is OK to drive with the boot open however most boots or hatchbacks have the number plate fastened on the outside so not having the plate visible would be a bit naughty.

Having the boot flapping up and down in the breeze (assuming it has no number plate or legal light on it) looks a bit like a hazzard and may require some discussion if stopped.

You can have your secured load hanging 1 metre over the back without any problem so long as number plate and lights are not obscured, 1 to 2 metres requires approved markers.

The exhaust gasses which will be drawn inside the car through the open back should be relatively harmless you would think these days with catalysts fitted.

Best of luck,

ScaniaPBman.