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Rounded bolts! Replacing them?


Simmo80
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Hello knowledgeable people! 

I have couple of bolts that are rounded off. 2 on front calliper bracket (not sliders) and 1 on rear knockle that holds the rear lower wishbone bar. 

I have found replacements for the calliper bracket. I think! If there a standard size. But i can't find the other replacement bolt (without buying the upper and lower bars again or buying full set for around £60) dont want to buy parts again and not paying £60 for a handful of bolts! 

Does anyone know the propper sizes? I know they all got 15mm heads but i dont know thread or length or bolt size. 

Appreciate it if anyone can tell me the propper bolt sizes

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35 minutes ago, Simmo80 said:

Hello knowledgeable people! 

I have couple of bolts that are rounded off. 2 on front calliper bracket (not sliders) and 1 on rear knockle that holds the rear lower wishbone bar. 

I have found replacements for the calliper bracket. I think! If there a standard size. But i can't find the other replacement bolt (without buying the upper and lower bars again or buying full set for around £60) dont want to buy parts again and not paying £60 for a handful of bolts! 

Does anyone know the propper sizes? I know they all got 15mm heads but i dont know thread or length or bolt size. 

Appreciate it if anyone can tell me the propper bolt sizes

why dont you get one out and measure it ?

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To be honest, I'd be down the local scrapyard for something like that. Should be a fairly cheap and easy find as few people really want second hand running gear parts.

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8 minutes ago, Darkman said:

To be honest, I'd be down the local scrapyard for something like that. Should be a fairly cheap and easy find as few people really want second hand running gear parts.

well just pop one out and measur it up and order some

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1 hour ago, mrmetallica said:

why dont you get one out and measure it ?

I dont have a thread/pitch measurement. Also dont want to make a mistake and ruin the thread. If it comes down to it i will take it out and take it a shop/dealer but i only have 1 mode of transport so ill have to ask someone to take me. 

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Also once i take them out they aint going back in. So if i dont find the right one iam without a car until i do. And its used daily. I think ill ask at my local scrappers. If no one has the answer iam looking for 

Example (m12 1.25 30mm) 

 

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Should be able to order these from Ford, will be the correct part then (prices have gone up mind you). Or get them from a scrap yard.

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I think caliper bolts will be high tensile so double check that if buying from a hardware store.

7zap shows some bolt sizes but not the full spec.

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Tom is very much correct. You need to as much worried about getting the correct tensile strength bolt as well as the correct thread. Bolts that secure the brake caliper are not your regular mild steel fastening that you get from B&Q.

Personally I'd only use the genuine bolts from Ford given the safety implications of a failure. They might be a few pounds each but better than your brake caliper coming off in an emergency situation.

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10 hours ago, Simmo80 said:

I dont have a thread/pitch measurement.

Tip: You might have disregarded the idea of using an ordinary ruler for measuring thread pitch as impractical since the pitch diameters are too small to measure with such an implement, but not so! It's easy enough if you measure 10 pitches at a time - You can easily enough tell the difference between 12.5mm vs 15mm vs 17.5mm!

For diameter, you can try the ruler, or, compare against drill bits. (Works best if you look with only one eye open).

As others have already pointed out though, it is of vital importance to get a bolt of the right tensile strength.

Recently I had to replace a bolt on my throttle body; I ended up going to Furrows (www.furrows.co.uk) who charged me £2.81. (The only eBay listing for "genuine" replacements was £10 for 3; getting a generic replacement was similar or more than Furrows).

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20 minutes ago, rd457 said:

Tip: You might have disregarded the idea of using an ordinary ruler for measuring thread pitch as impractical since the pitch diameters are too small to measure with such an implement, but not so! It's easy enough if you measure 10 pitches at a time - You can easily enough tell the difference between 12.5mm vs 15mm vs 17.5mm!

For diameter, you can try the ruler, or, compare against drill bits. (Works best if you look with only one eye open).

As others have already pointed out though, it is of vital importance to get a bolt of the right tensile strength.

Recently I had to replace a bolt on my throttle body; I ended up going to Furrows (www.furrows.co.uk) who charged me £2.81. (The only ebay listing for "genuine" replacements was £10 for 3; getting a generic replacement was similar or more than Furrows).

I found these 10.9 grade. Just need to figure out what size. I guess i can measure the bolt from the other side as i can replace that and still use the car till it arrives. This link looks like a reputable seller

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182469868561?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QEP8ll8ZRom&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=cmrVhlhqQFC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

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I’d be really cautious using non-Ford bolts for high torque critical parts like suspension components. 
 

If you’ve got a photo of the where the lower wishbone bolt is on the car etc it will be possible to find on sites like 7zap to work out the FINIS number, just sometimes they’re not always on the diagram you’d expect to find it on.

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I saved loads of screenshots over time from another parts site, is it the one below?

If so, FINIS 1473945 gets you what you’d need

 

EA450A6C-8722-4738-A743-F59C75B811AC.jpeg

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On 9/16/2022 at 7:13 PM, troy45 said:

I saved loads of screenshots over time from another parts site, is it the one below?

If so, FINIS 1473945 gets you what you’d need

 

EA450A6C-8722-4738-A743-F59C75B811AC.jpeg

Hb6 is the bolt rounded on suspension. So whats the part number? Hb6? And am guessing some other digits? 

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DSC_0048.thumb.JPG.210ae7268f555d7fb035342f4dfc779b.JPG

Still cant get it out! Am i right in believing that the nut on the other end is welded on? Cos am thinking of cutting it off and knocking it through! 

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I am a bit lost with this thread.

Is the OP's problem with a brake caliper bolt or the bottom through-bolt on the rear suspension?

If it is a brake caliper bolt read no further.

If it is the rear suspension bottom through bolt, read on.

Many years ago when I was running a very rusty MK1 (it had spent many years by the sea with the previous owner) I had exactly the same problem with the bottom through bolt on the rear suspension..

The coach company that employed me at that time were very helpful but completely failed to get that bolt out.

I ended up purchasing all new rear suspension components and  starting afresh. They liberated the offending parts by dexterous use of an angle grinder.

You might want to consider that option.

ScaniaPBman.

PS. I have just been out to my garage and found a bolt that I purchased then for that very rear suspension job but did not actually need. It is still in its Ford bag unused. The FINIS number is 3718080 and the date is 20 May 08. If it is any good to you, you are welcome to have it.

Edited by ScaniaPBman
PS added.
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All three bolts are rounded. The 2 holding the calliper carrier on front and the one on rear suspension. Most bolts iv come across so far haven't been in the best shape. I need to change both front control arms soon. Iam dreading finding more seized bolts.

As for the current job. I am considering cutting it off. But the nut i believe is welded in place. After cutting it off iam guessing i need to treat the bare steel to prevent future rust. Any ideas on this would be welcome. Also thinking a washer. 

ScaniaPB if the bolt is m12 65mm 1.75 it would come in handy very much so. Thanks

I think iam going to try them twist grip sockets for the calliper. As cutting them off is out the question 

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There's stuff you can paint on to apply some anti-rust protection after rust removal.

I've never tried such special rounded-bolt removal sockets myself, but I have an impression that they can be a bit hit and miss.

The best solution to get stuck damaged fasteners undone might be to use a good pipe wrench, which will give some really good grip along with plenty of leverage.

The following things can help aid removal:

  • More leverage - the longer the lever, the greater the torque!
  • Penetrating oil
  • Percussive shock (give it some taps with a hammer)
  • Heat - use of a blow torch or similar to cause expansion of the two parts that are screwed together can help unstick/loosen them. (Take care not to cool them too quickly or else you might affect the metallic properties, and obviously wait for them to cool before making use of any nice tools).
  • Welding on a good nut, allowing use of normal sockets

Tip: It can sometimes be best to rock a stuck bolt back and forth (loosen, tighten, loosen, tighten...) to help break through the rust.

I don't know if you're aware of "nut cracker" tools (here's a random example). I've seen demonstrations on youtube and they seems to be a reasonably reliable means of breaking off old rusted nuts.

I'm not sure whether by "welded nut" you're referring to it being rusted on to the bolt, or stuck to a car part the nut+bolt are holding together. The term "welding", I believe, only applies where heat melts metal, so I hope you're not worried about it literally being "welded" to something. If you find that the nut is stuck to the car part after you've removed the bolt, you should be able to knock it off with either just a hammer, or hammer+chisel, or tear it off with a wrench, I would expect.

Quote

ScaniaPB if the bolt is m12 65mm 1.75 it would come in handy very much so. Thanks

Don't forget the grade attribute (strength).

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Oh, one more thing for you to consider. Sealey have a somewhat unique alternative to the normal rounded-bolt socket set solution - their "lock-on" sockets, which function as normal sockets, but additionally include three pairs of notches inside them for rounded nuts/bolts. (Example video here; promo video) These supposedly work with "up to 85% rounded fastenings". I recall seeing a review video on youtube a while back where this was put to the test and I believe they worked really well. (I think this was it).

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1 hour ago, rd457 said:

 

I'm not sure whether by "welded nut" you're referring to it being rusted on to the bolt, or stuck to a car part the nut+bolt are holding together. The term "welding", I believe, only applies where heat melts metal,

_20220926_234703.thumb.JPG.b98059e349bf15a8ca4511fb4848e5b2.JPG

This is what i mean by the bolts are part of the trailing arm. So if i just cut off head of bolt it would still be stuck in the threads. So am thinking just cutting the nut off and replacing with normal nut. 

Tried most except heat. And i do have a big set of stillsons but not enough space to get a good grip. I have a smaller set somewhere so may try when i find them out. 

The bolt strength is 10.9 

I watched a review on magic wrench, that didn't look a bad tool. Basically a pipe wrench. I will try and find the sealy tool your on about. 

Thanks for your input. Most appreciated

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8 minutes ago, Simmo80 said:

the bolts are part of the trailing arm.

Oooh, now I understand you. 😄 I thought you were saying they were "welded" on by the rust damage.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Journey so far. Got twist sockets and gripped into bolt, still wouldn't move. Cut both sides of bolt of would not knock through. Even though the arm can swing. The middle of the hardened steel bolt is stuck in the bushing.

IMG_20221010_134535.jpg

IMG_20221010_134526.jpg

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Eventually got hold of reciprocating saw and cut from the inside, after trying everything. Grinding and cutting blade wouldn't get in far enough. But it's been replaced with 10.9 bolt from member on here (thanks again) and a 10.9 nut and washer.

All done back together. Just want to protect it from rust now. But couldn't believe the bolt was SO SEIZED inside the bushing. Was shocking.

IMG_20221010_151054.jpg

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