Hi all not sure how to diagnose this any pointers much appreciated. It is a Focus manual 1.6 2009. It has developed a noise that you can hear when lifting off/coasting with clutch in or out. If the car is under power you cannot hear the noise (but maybe it is there you just cannot hear it under the engine noise). Have checked for anything rubbing on the driveshafts and did fine that the undertray that goes under the crank was touching the driveshaft secured that but noise still present. Put the car in the air, currently has space save on and put it in gear and went from first to 2nd and there was a heavy vibration and the traction control was activating on the dash. Turned that off and still there was heavy vibration that felt awful. Only extra thing to mention is that during the test It was on the spacesaver spare as the tyre needs changing. Note that before th space saver was on the issue was apparent. Can only really describe it as a grinding noise from the front of the car. Changed the rear transmission mount as noticed a clonk in the last couple of weeks occasionally when reversing this was completed yesterday when the test mentioned was carried out. Are the transmissions the same across all the range or do I need to look up for a specific model number if it is the transmission. Bit of a catch 22 situation as MOT is due next month not sure if worth spending out on it so maybe get MOT done as it stands and see if it passes to work out next stage? Clutch was done last year Valeo brand as the first cheapo one lasted 2 weeks. Car is not driven with much mechanical sympathy (son thinks he can abuse it and things like this dont happen). Keep saying he will kill it 😞 Mileage is 156000

 

Thanks

Could just be a bad tyre

I don't believe it's the tyre or is my test flawed with having the vehicle in the air? My axle stands were on the inner edge of the wishbone so maybe the vibration was due to the wheels dropping downwards from their normal plane? Can try it again with the stands more outboard to load the suspension more if you thinknit was flawed? Could perhaps swap tyres front to back to see if any change.

If you're drving the front wheels off the ground I wonder if the vibration is simply the ABS cutting in. This is only a guess on my part but I imagine the ABS compares the the signals from all the sensors and activates if there's a significant difference in wheel rotation rates. Since your rears are stationary that would trigger it I'd have thought.

The diff will not be happy with a spacesaver on one side.  Get that swapped for a start.

The Traction Control will do as Mike says, grab the wheel that's turning more quickly when you accelerate - which will be the lightest one, in this case the space saver, unless you've got a sticky brake on that side which will also alter the diff loading.

(For info, ABS doesn't cut in unless you're pressing the brake pedal.  It is Traction Control that prevents slip between the driven wheels in this case using the ABS system.)

Hi Mike that I was thinking along those lines but the brake was not being pressed I know some vehicles will reduce duty cycle on detection of loss of tractoin which is indeed what it would have though was going on but dont think the focus is that advanced. Was the only test I could come up with at the time and maybe making me think more is wrong. Really cannot think of a way of testing this currently to try an isolate the noise. With what I done i was not liking being under the car whilst it was bucking around like it was that is how bad it was I was going to put a stethascope on the trans but got out quickly from underneath it :-)

 

Thanks Tom our posts crossed over. Do you think it is a valid test once the standard wheel is back on then? This time round will jack the car up and test with the standard wheel and also locate the stands so that the wheels are more in the position that they would be when the car is on the ground and run it up to speed and listen around for the noise.

 

Just now, scoobydo said:

Thanks Tom our posts crossed over. Do you think it is a valid test once the standard wheel is back on then? This time round will jack the car up and test with the standard wheel and also locate the stands so that the wheels are more in the position that they would be when the car is on the ground and run it up to speed and listen around for the noise.

Yes & no.  It's not a perfect test due to the way the diff works, but it is worth trying again.  Also worth noting that traction control can't be fully turned off in many cars.  The button just allows a bit more slip for snow driving (otherwise you'd never get anywhere) but will still prevent a total wheel spin.  I can't remember if the Mk2 Focus is set up like that or not.

I would put the stands on the sills if possible.  Can jack up on the subframe as long as your jack is low enough to fit under.

Thanks Tom if I put the stands on the sills then there will be major droppyness on the driveshafts but if this should not cause an issue then can try that. My plan was on the end of the wishbones so the driveshafts are more i their normal plane but of course will have back up stands in case of any slippage given that I will be having the wheels rotating.

Hmm, fair point.  The wishbone bushes might be knackered if they're that droopy when jacked up though.  The rubber should keep them fairly level.

From a safety perspective, I really don't like the idea of stands under wishbone ball joints, but I'm sure you're old enough to make your own decisions on safety risks.  

Will update when car gets back here. I am still alive 😉

OK so here are some videos on Google drive and explanations

Took spacesaver off and had car up in the air with driveshafts not far off from normal positioning. Still get traction control light flashing and even with TC off the engine bucks and it really feels bad. Other videos are with the car in gear and turning the wheel by hand anything but the smoothest of motions results in jerking amd clonking. Not sure if this is a valid test. Clonking coming from gearbox area more towards the tail end.

There is definitely a leak from the driveshaft so maybe low on fluid. So depending on if these are valid tests/mean anything I haven't topped up oil. The faster you go on deceleration the faster the clonking nothing noted when under power.

 

 

 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rxcH7fjZwJMa6z5F1JFfbrdVDQlSItIk/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15qC2E_D4g3o5Rr3xgwWOfInIwfVX71Zz/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19H2y7Q336IOR4_9SD7o89rBMFUDknXiL/view?usp=drivesdk

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19H2y7Q336IOR4_9SD7o89rBMFUDknXiL/view?usp=drivesdk

Broken CV joint ?

Thank unofix any ideas hiw you diagnose that? Are my tests valid above not sure if what I am feeling is the lash due to me turning the wheel rather than the wheel being turned. Doesn't come across great in the video but when the car is in the air and in gear it is awful the way the engine jumps about but that could be invalid test.

That's an interesting test.  If you were turning the wheel back & forth then I'd expect that amount of play in it.  But as you're turning it in one direction I don't think there should be any play in it.  Unless you're not keeping enough momentum in it maybe.

For reference, here's a video I took of mine a few years ago when I was unsure.

 

If you really concentrated then you could spin it with consistent pressure and it seemed OK. So still unsure if valid test. But definitely with front wheels of the ground and trying to drive results in the engine bucking around like there are no engine mounts amd seems to correspond with the TC light. That could be a red herring and normal. So we have GB issue driveshaft / CV issue notwithstanding the issue of the driver :-). When turning the wheel by hand the noise seemed to be coming from the plate on the back of the transmission or at least around that area.

IB5 gearbox is quite a noisy box in general.  Reliable enough though, if you don't rag them.  Mine does a fair bit of clunking when up on stands, in gear or not, if you rotate wheel back and forth.  I did notice a bit of engine movement in one of the videos so if you haven't checked the top mount, at the alternator side of the engine (drivers side in UK) for play, I'd check that first as they can play havoc with vibration through the car when they fail.

Have you checked for play in front wheel bearings?  They're great at failing without the usual loud drone that gets worse when you steer and transfer more weight onto it.  Does the wheel feel smooth on the hub when you slowly rotate it or does it feel a bit "gritty", for wanting of a better word.  Good tell tale is, when rotating, it can feel like a bit of resistance in the rotation but resistance is on off, on off when turning it.  If there's no resistance, bearing in good condition.

As unofix suggested, I'd defo be checking the Inner / Outer CV joints for play as they can also sound nasty when the bearings start disintegrating in the joint.  Rare for inner joints to go, if the outside one is bad you can road test by getting in a car park or similar and do a turn full lock one way then the other.  If you hear a constant cracking / clicking type noise when steering on full lock, it's usually the outer CV joint that's failed.  It'll go a lot quieter in a straight line after you straighten up.  If the car on stands, grip the driveshaft with your hand and get you son to slowly rotate wheel back and forth and any excessive play should be evident on the outer joints.  You also hear the grease squelching around if it's really gone.

Hi Bar72 

Thanks for what you have written. Have you ever tested with the car in the air with the engine driving the wheels. It really does sound bad and much beyond the actual original observation and why I started a thread on it. If it helps the noise when driving normally and coasting (clutch in or out) is rhythmic ie faster you are going the tapping gets faster. Cannot feel any vibration in the cabin but perhaps it hasn't developed enough yet. Thanks again

With the vehicle in the air if I turn one wheel the one on the otherwise does not rotate. Have compared that to a fiesta 2005 and the same test results in the opposite wheel turning in the other direction. Not sure if same transaxle between models so maybe another invalid test. If anyone has a 2009 1.6 petrol Focus it would be great if you could spend 10mins trying these tests 😉

1 hour ago, scoobydo123 said:

With the vehicle in the air if I turn one wheel the one on the otherwise does not rotate. Have compared that to a fiesta 2005 and the same test results in the opposite wheel turning in the other direction.

This might just be the brake dragging slightly. Have you tried doing this with it in gear (engine off, obviously)?

Mjt you might be onto something with that idea as one side has spacesaver wheel on and although it spins maybe slight more drag but that could be weight difference. The nearside driveshaft seal is leaking so done transmission top up through the sensor hole at the front  as couldn't find anywhere else to top up? It took 1L but still the noise persists ;-(

There is a filler plug behind the black plastic cover. If you filled through the sensor hole, you may have over-filled it.

See photo in this post that shows the plug. It has to be removed using an 8mm Allen key. It can be tight if it has never been removed before.

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/126917-mk75-fiesta-ib5-gearbox-oil-change/

Opps. So can expect the driveshaft seal to leak a bit more now ;-( Just in case anyone stumbles across this thread here is the picture in the other post.

Over-filling can cause the seals to fail completely when it is driven. In my opinion it would be safer to drain the excess oil out.

 

Hi all my Son now says that it no longer makes the noise when coasting out of gear. If this is the case does that give us a positive diagnosis of failed transaxle? I found this online Mk6 Fiesta 1.4L sent them a message and they say will not fit anyone know if that is true or what models I can look for? Thanks

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276540931097?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ZMOYUoWLROW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=-s8NmpsGQfK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY