Hello All,

I just picked up a 2018 ST Line 140, lovely little car, really enjoying it, never owned a Ford before either.

So I do have some questions on other things because this car comes with a lot of features, however, my enjoyment was rather cut short by an influx of youtube videos to my feed, showing people discussing ecoboost engine issues. This ranges from some saying how good the engine is to some saying it's a terrible design, and of course the recall that Ford had put out.

Apologies for bringing it up again as I'm sure this must have been thrashed out before, but I just wanted to hear the truth of the matter without all the noise.

The car is on 44,000 miles, doesn't have a full service history but does have three services stamped, no paper work to suggest it had gone back for any recall etc.

Do I need to worry about this and is there anything I should do to prevent any wet belt problems? I feel that if this was the nightmare I've seen decsribed elsewhere, none of you would be driving these cars around anymore right? 

5 minutes ago, Paulzx said:

I feel that if this was the nightmare I've seen decsribed elsewhere, none of you would be driving these cars around anymore right? 

We're not!  

No service history could mean it's had the wrong oil or very long intervals between changes.  In theory you could have up to 4 years left on the recommended belt interval but without knowing the history there's no way of knowing whether it's likely to last the 10 years or fail tomorrow.

Yearly oil & filter changes with the correct spec oil is the best thing you can do try and prolong the belt.  Also avoid short, cold trips.  The engine needs to be fully warmed up on every journey ideally.  Other than that, it is generally recommended to change the belts a bit earlier than the Ford interval now.

18 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

We're not!  

You're saying you're not driving the ecoboost cars? As in people are getting rid of these cars?

There is service history, just not complete. I do a fair amount of short journeys as I only live a couple of miles from work, so I am  bit concerned now. There was a service and oil change done by the dealer when I bought the car last month.

Do you think I should look to get the belt replaced now then, or maybe sell the car if it's going to be a gamble on this engine?

1 hour ago, Paulzx said:

You're saying you're not driving the ecoboost cars? As in people are getting rid of these cars?

There is service history, just not complete. I do a fair amount of short journeys as I only live a couple of miles from work, so I am  bit concerned now. There was a service and oil change done by the dealer when I bought the car last month.

Do you think I should look to get the belt replaced now then, or maybe sell the car if it's going to be a gamble on this engine?

Yes, people have been getting rid of wetbelt 1.0 EcoBoosts for years on here.  I'm fairly sure none of the forum regulars would recommend buying a used wetbelt 1.0 EcoBoost now.  Some may recommend the later chain driven 1.0 EcoBoost.

It only takes one engine flush, one extended interval or one wrong oil type to accelerate the wetbelt degradation.  That's why full history is so important with these.

It is entirely your decision on what to do with the car now.  Personally, I wouldn't have bought it.  I also don't believe that spending £1500+ for a belt change is good value on a used car.  But we do have members paying to have the belts done quite often, so it must make financial sense for them.

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Yes, people have been getting rid of wetbelt 1.0 EcoBoosts for years on here.

I'd find it interesting to know how many members still have a pre-chain ecoboost.

I still have mine, but as some know it's only because of the amount of work and cost invested in it.

I'll probably keep it now until either I or the car expires 🤔

3 minutes ago, RayC333 said:

I'd find it interesting to know how many members still have a pre-chain ecoboost.

I'd find it even more interesting as to how many members would admit to owning one 🤣

My 140 was no bother, but I had annual oil/filter changes from new and still parted with it at 5 years.

If hanging on to the car, annual changes are highly recommended. And avoid short journeys if at all possible - walking a couple of miles to work will be good for both of you!😀

 

 

 

22 hours ago, Paulzx said:

Do I need to worry about this and is there anything I should do to prevent any wet belt problems? I feel that if this was the nightmare I've seen decsribed elsewhere, none of you would be driving these cars around anymore right? 

Welcome to the forum Paul!

I don't think 'worry' is the word I would use, but I would certainly be mindful of the issue. However, based on my own experience and more importantly that of mechanics who have replaced belts on hundreds of these engines now, there appears to be a strong - if not absolute - correlation between regular oil changes (of the right type) and longevity of the wet belt system. In your shoes, with the uncertainty over service history, I would find a garage that has done at least a few belts now to drop the sump and check the oil pick up strainer for belt debris. Such an inspection will tell you with certainty how far along you are and then you can decide what course of action to take, whether that be an immediate belt change or just a plan for doing so in a few years/10k's time.

Be careful making judgement from the Internet - whilst there are lots of people that have suffered with this engine, and lots of forum coverage and videos etc showing the problems, there are also lots of us with absolutely no issues whatsoever but that's nowhere near as interesting to talk about and so won't be mentioned all that much!

18 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

My 140 was no bother, but I had annual oil/filter changes from new and still parted with it at 5 years.

If hanging on to the car, annual changes are highly recommended. And avoid short journeys if at all possible - walking a couple of miles to work will be good for both of you!😀

 

 

 

I do plan to have the oil change done yearly. Problem is, I bought the car for my business, to use at work not just to get there, so it needs to fulfil that role too.

2 hours ago, MJNewton said:

Welcome to the forum Paul!

I don't think 'worry' is the word I would use, but I would certainly be mindful of the issue. However, based on my own experience and more importantly that of mechanics who have replaced belts on hundreds of these engines now, there appears to be a strong - if not absolute - correlation between regular oil changes (of the right type) and longevity of the wet belt system. In your shoes, with the uncertainty over service history, I would find a garage that has done at least a few belts now to drop the sump and check the oil pick up strainer for belt debris. Such an inspection will tell you with certainty how far along you are and then you can decide what course of action to take, whether that be an immediate belt change or just a plan for doing so in a few years/10k's time.

Be careful making judgement from the Internet - whilst there are lots of people that have suffered with this engine, and lots of forum coverage and videos etc showing the problems, there are also lots of us with absolutely no issues whatsoever but that's nowhere near as interesting to talk about and so won't be mentioned all that much!

Thanks Matthew, that is the way of course, problems get highlighted but you never really know to what extent. Almost every van/vehicle I've ever bought for work, has had some negative publicity that came to light after purchase, even the mighty Ford Transit I've had people warning me off, it never ends!

Two questions that come to mind as of right now...

1) Getting the strainer checked for debris - what sort of cost should I expect, and is 44,000 miles still worth checking or is it way too soon?

2) What would you replace the car with as a similar replacement around same spec, size - value is approx £10k 2018 reg etc. I'm not really familiar with the rest of the Fiesta range to be honest

14 minutes ago, Paulzx said:

Thanks Matthew, that is the way of course, problems get highlighted but you never really know to what extent. Almost every van/vehicle I've ever bought for work, has had some negative publicity that came to light after purchase, even the mighty Ford Transit I've had people warning me off, it never ends!

Two questions that come to mind as of right now...

1) Getting the strainer checked for debris - what sort of cost should I expect, and is 44,000 miles still worth checking or is it way too soon?

2) What would you replace the car with as a similar replacement around same spec, size - value is approx £10k 2018 reg etc. I'm not really familiar with the rest of the Fiesta range to be honest

Do people still recommend annual oil changes if the later chain driven engine?

4 minutes ago, Casbantam said:

Do people still recommend annual oil changes if the later chain driven engine?

Yes!

The chain engine still uses a wetbelt for the oil pump.  So yes, annual changes are still generally recommended. 

However, I suspect a chain version doing big motorway mileage probably would be fine with the 18k/sub 2 year interval.

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

However, I suspect a chain version doing big motorway mileage probably would be fine with the 18k/sub 2 year interval.

I've often thought even the original version would probably be ok under those circumstances. As a business vehicle, it probably adds up.

Thinking back to my pattern of use back in the day - start with a new car, 3 year lease, 30,000 plus miles per year, so at least 1 service per year - this is what Ford were probably thinking of, and aiming to compete with VWs extended service interval in the fleet market. (Though VW also used super expensive oil for cars on the extended service regime).

Not so good for a low mileage private user, though.

3 hours ago, Paulzx said:

Problem is, I bought the car for my business, to use at work not just to get there, so it needs to fulfil that role too.

If you're doing a good mix with lots of longer trips too, you'll probably be fine. I got the impression initially it was mainly short trips.

We don't know how long you were intending to keep the car, but if looking long term, as has been mentioned, stick to annual oil charges and change the belt early, say 8 years. We've seen some very  sad cases where belts have failed literally days before they were booked in to be changed at 10 years, such as this:

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/156090-eco-boost-wet-belt/#comment-1066855

2 hours ago, Paulzx said:

2) What would you replace the car with as a similar replacement around same spec, size - value is approx £10k 2018 reg etc. I'm not really familiar with the rest of the Fiesta range to be honest

The Fiesta range around that age/price is almost exclusively 1.0 ecoboost unless you look at a 1.5 diesel. 

VW Group superminis such as the Polo, Seat Ibiza, Audi A1, and Skoda Fabia mostly also use a 1.0 triple in various outputs but with the crucial difference that they have a conventional dry timing belt.

 

 

I'm assuming the newer engines with the timing chain and wet oil pump belt still have the big bill at 10 years (to change the oil pump belt), just without the risk of catastrophic engine failure in the meantime?

1 minute ago, TimST3 said:

I'm assuming the newer engines with the timing chain and wet oil pump belt still have the big bill at 10 years (to change the oil pump belt)

Unfortunately so!

2 minutes ago, TimST3 said:

just without the risk of catastrophic engine failure in the meantime?

That's the $64,000 question! 

2 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

If you're doing a good mix with lots of longer trips too, you'll probably be fine. I got the impression initially it was mainly short trips.

We don't know no long you were intending to keep the car, but if looking long term, as has been mentioned, stick to annual oil charges and change the belt early, say 8 years. We've seen some very  sad cases where belts have failed literally days before they were booked in to be changed at 10 years, such as this:

VW Group superminis such as the Polo, Seat Ibiza, Audi A1, and Skoda Fabia mostly also use a 1.0 triple in various outputs but with the crucial difference that they have a conventional dry timing belt.

 

 

Thanks Roger. Let me add that the car has only done 44,000 miles and I don't do loads of annual miles, less than 10,000. As a daily car, it will do a lot of short trips but also some longer ones, but no real motorway miles. I plan to have it serviced annually anyway so changing the oil won't be a big deal. If the belt needs changing every 10 years, this 2018 car isn't due for a few years and it's done low miles, so hopefully that's all favourable. Having said all that, I'm going to phone around for some prices to get the sump dropped and the strainer checked.

As it is a work car, I probably will only keep it 2-3 years. If the thing is a hand grenade waiting to go off I'll have to move it on pronto!

3 hours ago, Paulzx said:

Thanks Matthew, that is the way of course, problems get highlighted but you never really know to what extent. Almost every van/vehicle I've ever bought for work, has had some negative publicity that came to light after purchase, even the mighty Ford Transit I've had people warning me off, it never ends!

Two questions that come to mind as of right now...

1) Getting the strainer checked for debris - what sort of cost should I expect, and is 44,000 miles still worth checking or is it way too soon?

It'd be a bit of a 'bespoke' request (i.e. not a run of the mill activity to undertake) so I'd expect to be paying around an hour's labour.

Quote

2) What would you replace the car with as a similar replacement around same spec, size - value is approx £10k 2018 reg etc. I'm not really familiar with the rest of the Fiesta range to be honest

You've only just bought this one! Why change it so soon? Because of the belt?

2 hours ago, Casbantam said:

Do people still recommend annual oil changes if the later chain driven engine?

All turbocharged engines, by virtue of the harsher operating environment (including increased temperature and piston ring blowby), will benefit from regular oil changes. When manufacturers specify extended oil change intervals they are almost certainly doing so because 1) it appeals to fleet car buyers and others making purchasing decisions based on total cost of ownership, and 2) they only need the car to last for as long as they are on the hook for the warranty period. For maximum longevity I wouldn't leave it longer than, say, annual / 7.5k mile intervals.

15 minutes ago, TimST3 said:

I'm assuming the newer engines with the timing chain and wet oil pump belt still have the big bill at 10 years (to change the oil pump belt), just without the risk of catastrophic engine failure in the meantime?

The oil pump belt does still fail on these.  And every one I've seen so far has required a new engine.  It's possible that people just aren't shutting off the engine quickly enough when the oil warning comes up.  And also possible that Ford aren't diagnosing any further than removing the sump.

But either way, there is still a proven considerable risk of catastrophic engine failure with the chain engine.

8 minutes ago, Paulzx said:

If the belt needs changing every 10 years, this 2018 car isn't due for a few years and it's done low miles, so hopefully that's all favourable.

Low mileage for year is worse for the wetbelt as that can only mean lots of short trips or lots of time sat unused.

1 minute ago, MJNewton said:

You've only just bought this one! Why change it so soon? Because of the belt?

That's what I'm trying to get an understanding of, do I need to be concerned enough to move it on? I'm assuming on reasonably low miles and only 6 years old, I don't have to panic just yet but equally, I don't want to have the headache of worrying about it down the road either, so I may just keep it until next year and look to move it on.

If it wasn't so expensive to change the belts, I would probably keep it a while, but £1500 approx to do that job is quite a lot considering it seems very prudent to do it well before the 10 year mark. I'm just weighing it all up really. I'm a bit disappointed as I really like the car!

Just now, Paulzx said:

That's what I'm trying to get an understanding of, do I need to be concerned enough to move it on? I'm assuming on reasonably low miles and only 6 years old, I don't have to panic just yet but equally, I don't want to have the headache of worrying about it down the road either, so I may just keep it until next year and look to move it on.

If it wasn't so expensive to change the belts, I would probably keep it a while, but £1500 approx to do that job is quite a lot considering it seems very prudent to do it well before the 10 year mark. I'm just weighing it all up really. I'm a bit disappointed as I really like the car!

There are many places doing it for <£1000, and these are places doing them weekly if not daily and so very well experienced at them. Where abouts are you located?

1 minute ago, TomsFocus said:

Low mileage for year is worse for the wetbelt as that can only mean lots of short trips or lots of time sat unused.

I imagine like a lot of cars, it didn't go anywhere much for 21 & 22 during the lockdowns. The mileage did shoot up a bit after that

2 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

There are many places doing it for <£1000, and these are places doing them weekly if not daily and so very well experienced at them. Where abouts are you located?

Oh really? That's a bit more promising. I'm actually based on the Isle of Wight. There are a lot of specialised mechanics here as well as a Ford dealer of course, although they wouldn't be my first port of call for obvious reasons