Considering Between A Fiesta Zs And A Suzuki Swift Sport

[GlynnZS]

Does how the car looks come into the equation or just running costs and how it drives? Zetec s has good compromises between running costs, looks, power and handling. If you just want something that's economical to run and buy then likelihood is it won't be too aesthetically appealing.

[MattDRX]

That doesn't make a lot of sense, so you're saying that cheap eco cars don't look good in short? personally I think the ZS is overpriced, it's essentially a few K over the basic model for just a body kit and some springs right? which in years to come all the Yoof will be buying the cheap models and fitting ZS stuff too for a fraction of the cost.

Depreciation is also !Removed! poor on these, but from that post just because a car is cheap doesn't mean it will not look good at all.

[GlynnZS]

Yes, my opinion is that cheap eco cars don't look great. Judging by Kathy's past car's I speculate that her opinion might coincide with mine, but thought I'd ask to confirm.

The Zetec 1.0 ecoboost 100hp is £13445, the zetec s £15495. I'm more than willing to pay the extra £2000 for the bodykit, bigger wheels and springs, better seats and extra 25hp.

Why did you get the zetec s over the zetec or a lower model? Just forget for a second that you wanted a faster car, would you have gotten rid of your overpriced zetec s, if so what for? A Kia Picanto?

[GlynnZS]

And I definitely would not get one of the none ecoboost engines. The 1.25 is so gutless it's untrue. My car is currently in the bodyshop after somebody pulled out on me (admitted fault and are paying for my car to be fixed) and ive got a 2013 1.4 corsa sxi, and the lack of torque of the thing is depressing. All my future cars will be turbo petrol or turbo diesel, and I'll pay to have that the torque.

If you drive the 1.0 ecoboost right, you can have decent torgue and 45+mpg. The corsa hasn't and is doing 38mpg, slow and not great on economy.

[kathyp]

hmmm I do agree that a lot of the citycars don't look great...but there are a few, the base fiat 500's look ok, as does the new i10 (though wouldn't go for one of those) and of course the reworked aygo triplets come out in a couple months and the RWD twingo also later this year looks the most interesting.

maybe i have to hurry up and wait on this one, getting something like that doesn't preclude me from swapping into something fast again in a year or two....although driving the ST made me realise that I would possibly kill myself in it so easy is it to go fast in :D

[GrahamJC]

As a matter of interest, did you get a price on the Zetec S? I got my one for £13,700 including privacy

glass, 17 inch wheels and Panther Black paintwork I am not sure if that was about right but I was happy

with it!

[MattDRX]

The 1.0 is out of breath after 60MPH, try pulling out on the Motorway to overtake, it struggles to hit 70 the gear ratios are way to long for a little engine like that.

That's £15,495 also before paint and other extras right? you're then into the territory of buying a 1 series, A3 or Golf, or even a half well speccd A1 with the decent 1.4 Turbo or even a Corsa VXR as they go dirt cheap actually, or even a decent enough Mini, all of which these will retain better value, better and nicer to drive with similar economy and don't give the same impression that Corsa Unlimited editions do ( bad boy who couldn't afford / insure / run an ST much the same with VXRs )

Sorry but the ZS is just poor value for money, in years to come when they've all been made " individual" by everyone slapping on Gel Overlays and sold with the words Unique on them, everyone will have a different opinion of them and will be the new chav mobile, no one will want them and they'll be sitting at the 3K mark, at the end of the day, it's just a 1.0 car with a very small turbo and crap brakes, just this particular model has very expensive tyres for a 1.0.

[GlynnZS]

Are you comparing Ford list prices to second hand car prices or VW/BMW/Audi prices after dealer discounts?

Its £16995 for a bottom of the range Golf with a 1.2 85PS engine. Think about trying to overtake on the motorway in that! Right?

The 100hp BMW 114i starts at £18305....thats £3000 more for a slower car with a BMW badge right? And as Graham has just shown, you get pretty big discounts from Ford, I cant see you getting a 1 series discounted to anywhere near the LIST price of the zetec s.

I agree about some of the kinds of people buying them, and the gel overlays (From the way you post, Im surprised you havent got these) and my car will be gone as soon as i start spotting these people driving zetec S's on a daily basis...but so far I hardly see any at all.

Then again a large proportion of ST buyers are likely to be similar to the above people, who just happen to have a bit more money.

Im going to assume you avoided my question of why you got a zetec s over a zetec/style/1.2 Golf/£18000 114i and what you would have done with it if you hadnt have wanted a faster car.

[MattDRX]

You may actually want to go into BMW and check what offers they'll give you, you can easily get a 116i Sport for £199PM with a few K down, VAG group do much better discounts than Ford as do Mini.

BMW do events and chuck out stupid deals to people, they are ridiculously common for a reason, there sales would halve if they didn't discount the way they did.

And I didn't dodge your questions as I had just a Zetec and paid 10,495 for it cash, that was the sole purpose I bought it, was said great economy and no other cars came new with that level of trim or supposed economy for £10k, but it wasn't the colour I wanted and missed a few other things, these Epic discounts people rave about are the same deals I got on this, just the car they have in at the time and bought from Ford to get it cheaper themselves, you very limited choice on these " deals " Ford chuck out to people.

And no I wouldn't get Gel overlays, by far the most unoriginal thing going in the Ford world, much like the Eurolook on the VW scene, take the number plates off and keys away at a meet and none of the owners will be able to find their car as they all look the same.

Still haven't seen any ST drivers at the traffic lights, sitting low with the windows down and the system up, Snap back on, Ray Ban wayfarer glasses ( being original with themselves )...... you get the picture. seen myself a lot of ZS owners rollin' about like this though.

Also for the record as is evident on a lot of Ford and VX forums when buying the Sporty but not option, what's the first post asking about?? Mods and where can I buy an Exhaust and Air filter from? Trying to buy a standard one in a few years will be a tricky task.

And what would I do when I want a faster car? well I bought the ST for one, when I get bored of this which I will I'll be buying a 2nd hand 135M as it's the best hatch around, either that or an Impreza Cosworth if there are any left or they drop below 25K which is unlikely for several years yet.

Heres another,

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/alfa-romeo/mito-hatchback/1-4-135-multiair-distinctive-3dr/summary/63323

These go on 0% at the moment so it makes it cheaper to finance on list price vs the ZS list price, Quicker car and looks better IMO, better extras to be had as well, can even get Bose Stereos on these, Giant wheels which everyone likes.

Loads more options out there for less than a ZS.

[GlynnZS]

The only car I test drove before getting mine was a 116i. Maybe the dealer wasnt in the position at that time to chuck a stupid deal my way, but I couldnt get it anywhere near the ZS price. It was nicer inside and maybe slightly quicker than the ZS, but overall I couldnt justify the extra cost to purchase and the extra running costs of higher insurance and tax.

One of my mates has a new 116d, and he pays £290 a month for 4 years with a £8500 balloon payment, F that. I really do prefer mine, I'm paying for mine on Ford Aquire, and have already paid off more than it has depreciated, and am easily in a position to get a 1-series, or an ST, but have no inclination to. Except when, as you say, every chav on the block has one, which come to think of it happened with the mk7 ZS.

[666Damian666]

I want to thank MattDRX

I have had a crap day in work but coming on here and reading what Matt has to say, never fails to make me laugh

[MattDRX]

The only car I test drove before getting mine was a 116i. Maybe the dealer wasnt in the position at that time to chuck a stupid deal my way, but I couldnt get it anywhere near the ZS price. It was nicer inside and maybe slightly quicker than the ZS, but overall I couldnt justify the extra cost to purchase and the extra running costs of higher insurance and tax.

One of my mates has a new 116d, and he pays £290 a month for 4 years with a £8500 balloon payment, F that. I really do prefer mine, I'm paying for mine on Ford Aquire, and have already paid off more than it has depreciated, and am easily in a position to get a 1-series, or an ST, but have no inclination to. Except when, as you say, every chav on the block has one, which come to think of it happened with the mk7 ZS.

Only a matter of time, the 6-7k mark for any body kitted car with cheap insurance will make them flock to it bank loans at the ready.

I want to thank MattDRX

I have had a crap day in work but coming on here and reading what Matt has to say, never fails to make me laugh

Serving the forum for 290 or so days a year.

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[WelshFordFan]

MattDRX - 'The 1.0 is out of breath after 60MPH, try pulling out on the Motorway to overtake, it struggles to hit 70 the gear ratios are way to long for a little engine like that.'

Sorry mate that's just nonsence, My ZS 125 Ecoboost is still pulling hard at 90MPH (Don't drive this speed everywhere honest ;) )

You love your ST we get it, but talking out your bottom and quoting ridiculous made up stats just make you look a fool

[MattDRX]

Sorry but mine didn't. Pure and simple. I drive on the motorway everyday for 62 miles to work and back and it isn't sufficient for the job. I get others are in love with the 1.0 engine but I really fail to see why, I put up with it for 4 months and I give it a 4/10 for ergonomics. Others on here clearly agree by ditching theirs for an ST and more will follow.

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[NQbbe]

Despite not being the biggest fan of the 1.0 engine, mainly due to turbo lag (actually I'm just not a turbo fan at all), I have to disagree with you MattDRX.

My ZS 125 pulls quite quickly from 60mph to 90mph (when I'm overtaking) in 3rd gear.

Haven't modified it in any way, so it's not due to chipping etc.

Also I might add that there's a significant difference in how much value for money you get, depending on what country you live in.

The ZS in Denmark is roughly 19.500£, whereas the ST1 is around 31.000£. (Notice that's the ST1, the ST2 is 33.500£ and the ST3 isn't even sold)

[GlynnZS]

Sorry but mine didn't. Pure and simple. I drive on the motorway everyday for 62 miles to work and back and it isn't sufficient for the job. I get others are in love with the 1.0 engine but I really fail to see why, I put up with it for 4 months and I give it a 4/10 for ergonomics. Others on here clearly agree by ditching theirs for an ST and more will follow.

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Unless it was a typo, you said you had a zetec not a zetec S, and you can't get the 125hp engine in a zetec, just the 100hp correct? 25% more power is a lot.

[MattDRX]

Disagree all you like, you may wish to drive at 60mph in 5th gear to save fuel however as that's what im referring to.

On second thought, I sincerely apologise to all Ford enthusiasts, please sell your car immediately and buy a ZS 1.0 ecoboost. It is the greatest car on earth, it will take on a Zonda round the Nurburgring and win even when driven by a blind man with no legs and on flat tyres. Please ignore any opinion on the Internet relating to this model of car as it's complete nonsense. This post is based on fact from consumer feedback.

/Endthread as Kathy isn't impressed and didn't buy one.

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[MattDRX]

Unless it was a typo, you said you had a zetec not a zetec S, and you can't get the 125hp engine in a zetec, just the 100hp correct? 25% more power is a lot.

A few tenths of a second more.

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[WelshFordFan]

Sorry but mine didn't. Pure and simple. I drive on the motorway everyday for 62 miles to work and back and it isn't sufficient for the job. I get others are in love with the 1.0 engine but I really fail to see why, I put up with it for 4 months and I give it a 4/10 for ergonomics. Others on here clearly agree by ditching theirs for an ST and more will follow.

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You had a dud then ...

Should have taken it back

You clearly chose the wrong car for you, can't see why it took you 4 months to realise this ?? Did you not test drive it 1st ??

Anyone who upgrades from a ecoboost to a ST in such a short space of time never really did their homework in the 1st place

[GlynnZS]

So a 100hp engine won't pull very hard in possibly the longest 5th gear on any production car. Wow, didn't see that coming.

You stick in 5th gear for economy, but rather than change down to a non-overdrive uneconomical gear, you buy an ST. And you wonder why we can't take your arguments seriously!

You made a couple of great points, but unfortunately, as ever, they're overshadowed by the other !Removed! you talk

[MattDRX]

I did test drive it first, it's quite hard to take it out and replicate my commute on a test drive ( not being sarcy here ) but after a while the economy never picked up, just sat at 47mpg or worse when you gave it some for a work run. And it struggled quite badly to keep pace with the traffic of the m25 and A3 in the mornings.

Among other things such I think they brakes were !Removed! and the seats grated when sitting in them for an hour on Friday evening when the UK grinds to a halt. Also it's wobbly as a !Removed! up 30st man when turning more than 10 degrees. First impressions were great but very short lived.

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[MattDRX]

So a 100hp engine won't pull very hard in possibly the longest 5th gear on any production car. Wow, didn't see that coming.

You stick in 5th gear for economy, but rather than change down to a non-overdrive uneconomical gear, you buy an ST. And you wonder why we can't take your arguments seriously!

You made a couple of great points, but unfortunately, as ever, they're overshadowed by the other !Removed! you talk

Not at all because I make 43mpg blasting about in it, in all gears. Even in 6th gear flat on the floor it pulls all the way from 45 mph all the way to 135 with no issues at all.

Dropping down to 3rd gear from that speed isn't clever, it isn't safe by any means and will kill the clutch and box over time and you may wish to check what the car returns blasting at 60 in 3rd gear it's pretty damn poor.

Yes I'd much rather part ways and get something more comfy, more secure at speed, more capable to list a few things for what is effectively a few quid pm. For the purpose I have for car obviously.

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[666Damian666]

Every forum needs a comedy genius who believes in what he says soooooo much & has complete tunnel vision & that ladies & gentlemen in our case is MattDRX

I put his case down to small Manhood syndrome

[NQbbe]

MattDRX the car isn't damaged by shifting down to 3rd at 60mph - it'll do less than 4k rpm at that speed.

As for not being safe I cannot see how it should possibly be unsafe, it's not like you'll start swinging wildly etc.

In fact I'd say overtaking in the highest gear is rarely a good idea, as the overtake will take longer time than necessary, thus leaving you in the wrong side of the road for a longer period of time.

Furthermore taking your engine to high revs every now and then has the effect of cleaning sod out of the engine and exhaust system - something you definitely want removed.

As for the brakes, the ZS has plenty stopping power for a car its size - I agree the ST has better brakes, but the ZS isn't underperforming compared to its rivals (VW polo, Renault Clio, Peugeot 208 comes to mind)

Fuel economy you're absolutely right, it'll probably do less than 47mpg if you're mostly doing highways, in fact my does only 40 - but that's still 10 more than my previous car with similar power output.

The ZS being wobbly I cannot understand at all, it's got almost the entirely same suspension setup as the ST, the only difference being torque vectoring on the ST, which isn't adding any stability when cornering. The ZS and ST sit at the same ride height, and if you fit 17" wheels to the ZS, you've got the exact same geometry - my ZS corners flat.

Seats - can't say anything about this, as I haven't sat in the Recaro seats of the ST for a long enough drive - I have however driven for more than an hour plenty of times and never had any issues with the ZS.

I'll have to agree with Glynn in saying I think you had a "normal" Fiesta and not the ZS - that would explain the wobbly part, and if it was the 100bhp version it'd explain the lack of performance.

In fact the 125bhp version has plenty more power at higher speeds compared to the 100bhp verison, due to the 125bhp version's usage of overboost (gives it quite a hefty dose of extra torque, which is mainly what you want for accelerating - the ST uses the same trick)

[ed12]

Bet you regret making this topic now!

I was under the impression you can change down to any gear providing you rev match it up and the speed does not exceed the capability of the requested gear?

More power is always better, ALWAYS. ;)