2006 1.6 Ti Vct Cam Variator Problems.

[Effingfocus]

Hi all. First post and I've signed up because searching for my problem led me to this post.

I've just bought a 2006 1.6 Ti-VCT Focus for my son. 79,000 miles on the clock. It had an occasional rattle on startup but there was no consistency to it - one moment it would rattle after switching off for half an hour but then wouldn't do it when left overnight. Next day could be the opposite. First thing I did was change the oil & filter using 5W/30 fully synthetic. No flush though. Would start and run fine, the only problem being that when driving it, it wouldn't reach working temperature. I suspected the thermostat and on stripping it I found that the lugs that hold it into the plastic housing had broken and it was floating loose. This thermostat comes complete with the housing so I replaced that and now the temperature when driving is spot on in the middle of the gauge. But...... As soon as it warms up it runs flat. If you continue driving after about 20-30 minutes the engine management light comes on. Fault code P000A comes up which, amongst other things, COULD indicate a mechanical fault. As I've still to change the cam belt kit, and because of the occasional rattle, I'm changing the two VCT units while it's all off. The part numbers and prices (for someone that asked earlier) are F1796573 at £57.83 and F1798086 at £59.82. Both prices are plus VAT although my son works at Fords and with his staff discount the pair including VAT came to £98.84). I have the belt and tensioner kit already and I'm just waiting for my cam and engine locking kit to arrive from Amazon (£55). Reading this, I'm going to give it a flush and another oil and filter change before doing the job but I'll keep you all posted as to whether I have any success! Bye for now.

Update as promised: Finally the cam/VVT locking tool that I ordered on May 7th arrived from amazon so today I fitted the new VVT units as well as a new cam belt and tensioner. What a difference! Ticking over quietly, running sweet, pulling like a train and no pesky warning lights on. At least that should keep my son off my back for a while!

[kpg]

Update as promised: Finally the cam/VVT locking tool that I ordered on May 7th arrived from Amazon so today I fitted the new VVT units as well as a new cam belt and tensioner. What a difference! Ticking over quietly, running sweet, pulling like a train and no pesky warning lights on. At least that should keep my son off my back for a while!

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Excellent, glad to hear it's made such a difference. How hard was the while process? You wouldn't be able to do a tutorial/write up on it would you?

Sent from my iPhone 5s.

[Effingfocus]

Well, it's easier to follow this YouTube video than for me to try to write it all up.

It's in Russian (I think) but you don't need to understand the language, just watch the video and you'll see how it's done. You do need the proper tool to lock the cam sprockets and if you are changing the sprockets you need a camshaft locking plate. If you read the instructions it says you need a flywheel locking tool, which I had, but I couldn't be bothered to remove the starter so I locked the crank pulley with a tool similar to what they used in the video. Probably not a DIY job - I have access to workshop facilities so not a problem for me to do. Two things I struggled with - undoing the crank pulley bolt - I used a 3/4" drive impact tool to remove it and it has to be tightened VERY tight. Torque up to 45NM and then turn it 90°. Again, I used a 3/4 drive socket set and had to use a scaffold pole on the ratchet to turn the bolt 90°. There's no keyway on the crank/pulley and it's just the bolt being done up tight that holds it all in place - very critical - you must use a new stretch bolt but you get one in the cam belt kit (actually you get three different ones - you just use one the same size as the one you are replacing). The other thing was the drive belts. They say to cut them off and fit new but that's nearly another £40-50 so I wound them off like a bicycle chain and reused them, fitting them back on the same way. You need three hands to do it though! That's it really. Took me about three hours in total.

[kpg]

Well, thanks for taking the time to describe the process. It does seem like a workshop job, obviously. Unfortunately I don't know any mechanic in my area, or trust for that matter, well enough to get them to carry out such repairs so I'm kinda stuck with mine until I can change car again.

Thanks again for the info, I'll take a look at that video later.

Sent from my iPhone 5s.

[jimjamyaha]

Hi All,

Been reading this thread with interest as just under 2 years ago we started getting a startup rattle after a cambelt change.

3 questions:

1. Would a cambelt replacement on a Ti-VCT 56-plate Ford Focus MK2 cause/contribute to this (odd that it only started after the replacement, but could be coincidence/result of a tighter timing belt)
2. Is it ok to leave this "as is" until something specific happens (has been 'ok' for 2 years with no current loss of power/eml).
3. Assume that Ti-VCT is working despite the initial rattle?

​Here the rattle is (recorded from inside of car). Here is a 'normal' startup on second start.

Thanks,

James.

[Effingfocus]

I doubt if a new belt would cause any problems as they can't be tightened incorrectly as its all done by a pre-tensioned belt tensioner pulley. If it's running okay and you are getting no warning lights or loss of power then there's not much to worry about - just turn the radio up a bit! You'll soon know when it's going wrong by the loss of power and warning light. You won't do any damage to the engine either.

[artscot79]

its probably injector slap which is normal and a common trait of the engine you dont hear it on newer focus as they have thick under bonnet insulation

[jimjamyaha]

Artscot79, thanks for your reply. Bit confused as in other posts I thought you mentioned that the ti-vct starting to fail is a 2-3 second rattle on startup? This is what has started happening....

its probably injector slap which is normal and a common trait of the engine you dont hear it on newer focus as they have thick under bonnet insulation

[Effingfocus]

I think when the variators are worn, oil drains down from them when the engine is switched off and takes a few seconds to get back up there after start up, hence the rattle. Probably nothing to worry about as long as everything else is okay. Are you changing your oil and filter regularly with the correct spec of oil? An oil flush additive just before the next oil change wouldn't do any harm either.

[jimjamyaha]

Hey, yes everything else is being serviced as the correct intervals and to Ford spec - so not worried on that front.

Just saw this other thread too - where someone has exactly the same issue - 2-3 sec rattle without any eml light or loss of power - and def not the tappets making noise until the engine warmed up as it's about the 2-3 sec rattle rather than idle noise: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/33534-slight-rattle-on-engine-startup/

For now I'll just let it be and keep an eye on performance.

Think you're right about the oil pressure on startup - although I think the oil drains anyway regardless of wear. As the issue is only noticeable for a few seconds on a cold startup as there is no oil in there during which they'll be running aligned as per spec (or out of spec with wear) as far as I understand.

Further problems like specific loss of power and EML lights indicate more complete failure or additional components that are failing with the VCT system - so I'm hoping that it's just early-stage wear at the moment.

I think when the variators are worn, oil drains down from them when the engine is switched off and takes a few seconds to get back up there after start up, hence the rattle. Probably nothing to worry about as long as everything else is okay. Are you changing your oil and filter regularly with the correct spec of oil? An oil flush additive just before the next oil change wouldn't do any harm either.

[jimjamyaha]

Just found this nugget from earlier on in this thread which explains what is probably happening at an early stage of ti-vct failure (bold below):

Yes, a flush may help but regular oil chages with fully synth is the way to go (I'd recommend half the usual service interval), then you shouldn't get any sludge or carbon build up in the first place. It's also important to get the oil upto temperature every couple of weeks with a decent motorway run. Lots of short trips could mean it never gets hot enough to evaporate the moisture out of the oil which builds up over time due to condensation, especially in colder weather.

Saying that, I don't think the majority of VCT failures are due to blocked galleries. Failures tend to begin with a rattle on startup which lasts 1-2 seconds. This suggests a mechanical failure within the timing variator unit (there is no oil presure in first couple of seconds anyway, so during this time at should be at the default setting with no audible rattle). They seem to start failing between 60 and 80K miles.

From: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/58996-2006-16-ti-vct-cam-variator-problems/page-2#entry390983

[jimjamyaha]

Artscot79 - apols - as per the above post found it was another member that identified the specific startup 2-3 second rattle as indicating the start of problems.

Totally understand that tappet noises on warm up with this engine is normal - but the 2-3 second initial rattle is not and they're 2 different issues... Certainly looking through the forums there has been different discussions around startup noise - which is also confused as VCT failure resulting in limp home mode can of course also result in a very tappety-sounding engine :)

Artscot79, thanks for your reply. Bit confused as in other posts I thought you mentioned that the ti-vct starting to fail is a 2-3 second rattle on startup? This is what has started happening....

[pky]

You've really got problems when it sounds like a diesel at idle. I've done 70,000 miles since mine was replaced and have done an oil change every 8-9000 miles. I wouldn't stress yourself about it as when it goes it goes, just do oil changes every 8000 or even before and hope for the best. If mine goes again it'll go to the scrappy that's for sure, but I do love her and don't want to get rid!

[saklak]

I wondering if worth it to buy those parts from a sh card parts store ? any clue about the compatibility ( mk2.5, mk3 - all the same ) ?

[artscot79]

Ti vct units are different secondly if its a rattle its likely just the oil getting pressure it can be a ti vct cam solenoid unto you get eml and loss of power leave it alone

[Effingfocus]

I wondering if worth it to buy those parts from a sh card parts store ? any clue about the compatibility ( mk2.5, mk3 - all the same ) ?

Both variators are only just over £120 for the pair. Due to the labour costs involved, I wouldn't chance fitting secondhand parts if they were given to me for free!!

[artscot79]

New variators you also need a new timing belt kit and an oil change so oil and filter as well as the cam locking tool its not quite as cheap as just pop on the variators

[jimjamyaha]

oil def a factor on the startup rattle.

Seems to def happen when started from cold, but also sometimes also when partially warm and parked for a bit when facing uphill (thinking the oil drains away from the top sections quicker). Def happens less when parked on the flat or downhill.

[Spiros]

Hello ! My first post here from Greece ! :) My father owns a focus mk2 with ti-vct bought in 2007 . We did a timing belt change on ford dealership service and shortly after it there was a rattle noise ( deffinately not tapping ) and more like clack-clack for 1-2-3 seconds mainly at cold starts but occasionally at warms too . The symtoms look like Jimjamyaha has described so there is not felt loss in power neither any check engine lights BUT the oil pressure light remains open at these first seconds during engine start up after ignition . I contacted the dealership and told me it is an early stage cam sprocket failure and that i don't need to change it unless there is loss in power or check engine lights .( Future cost replacement will be 350 euros )

My question is : Is there any chance that the problem's cause is a wrong cam timing setting made under cam belt change ?

I think it that way since as far as i understand how the VCT systems works when the engine is cold there should be no change in timing by the cam variator .

If there is no chance , then do i need to change both the cam sprockets and the solenoids or what else ?

Thanks in advance

[artscot79]

You get injector slap which is normal you get a tick from cold sometimes warm irs normal take any new ford ti vct and lift the bonnet you'll hear it you cant normally as ford put an undertray and sound deadening under the bonnet and more bulkhead insulation inside

If there's no loss in power no warning lights leave it alone if it goes later it'll cost more Tha 350 as you'll need new cam variators new oil new oil filter new timing belt and tensioner

[jimjamyaha]

Hi Spiros,

It's weird isn't it - the rattle in my case also def *only* started after having the cam belt changed - and sounds *exactly* as you describe the situation in your case.

I do wonder, like you mention, if a timing issue has been introduced with the belt being changed. Or, possibly, that a new belt has corrected timings that was starting to drift (as the belt slowly stretches to match the sprockets) and this then reveals the wear on the ti-vct system (cam variators).

James.

Hello ! My first post here from Greece ! :) My father owns a focus mk2 with ti-vct bought in 2007 . We did a timing belt change on ford dealership service and shortly after it there was a rattle noise ( deffinately not tapping ) and more like clack-clack for 1-2-3 seconds mainly at cold starts but occasionally at warms too . The symtoms look like Jimjamyaha has described so there is not felt loss in power neither any check engine lights BUT the oil pressure light remains open at these first seconds during engine start up after ignition . I contacted the dealership and told me it is an early stage cam sprocket failure and that i don't need to change it unless there is loss in power or check engine lights .( Future cost replacement will be 350 euros )

My question is : Is there any chance that the problem's cause is a wrong cam timing setting made under cam belt change ?

I think it that way since as far as i understand how the VCT systems works when the engine is cold there should be no change in timing by the cam variator .

If there is no chance , then do i need to change both the cam sprockets and the solenoids or what else ?

Thanks in advance

[jimjamyaha]

Hi artscot,

Thanks for the heads-up again about injector slap - which is def. noticeable on my engine - but never been an issue/annoyance for me personally.

However, the symptoms that myself, others and Spiros describe is definitely nothing to do with this normal operating sound and have all a quick 2-3 burst at startup rather than an ongoing sound - and is the cam variators being out of sync briefly until oil pressure is up.

You get injector slap which is normal you get a tick from cold sometimes warm irs normal take any new ford ti vct and lift the bonnet you'll hear it you cant normally as ford put an undertray and sound deadening under the bonnet and more bulkhead insulation inside

If there's no loss in power no warning lights leave it alone if it goes later it'll cost more Tha 350 as you'll need new cam variators new oil new oil filter new timing belt and tensioner

[Effingfocus]

I cannot see how having the timing belt changed would have any effect on the rattle at start up even if it were incorrectly timed. Did you have the oil and filter changed at the same time by any chance? My rattle only became noticeable after I changed my oil and perhaps it was because the new oil flushed all the old gunk out of the variators maybe? Hindsight is a wonderful thing though - it would have cost very little in labour to have the variators changed at the same time as the belt - now the whole belt changing process will need repeating if/when the variators are to be changed - I think it is advisable to change the variators on these engines at every belt change as that's how long they seem to last!

[Spiros]

Sight !! The car today started to feel rought at startup , after 20 minutes at idle the rpms would drop to 300 and then go all the way up to 1500 and again to 300 .... I am starting to get really bored about the car .... , any thoughts what could it be ?

[artscot79]

Its not the cam then it could be the injector solenoids or a good many other things you'll need live data to find out what though on this car the injectors when you switch off go into a ready position so to speak you hear it as a few clicks and a mechanical noise if they don't the car will not idle correctly its impossible to say given these parts aren't cheap diagnosis is cheaper

It could be the maf sensor a coil issue a lambda sensor a hose or it has an ecu issue throttle position sensor cam sensor variator solenoids blocked cat faulty temp sensor fuel pump........