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Bleeding Brakes.


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It's driving me crazy to figure why...

I've been bleeding my brakes after flushing the system. Done the cycle, and when the person bleeding they'll say it's hard and I'll double check it... go to the next brake and do the same... the moment I turn the engine on... that work has gone out the window...

What am I doing wrong?

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Just now, TomsFocus said:

What's happening?  The pedal will drop when you turn the engine on.  Or are the brakes spongy?

The pedal will drop and be spongey again. Feels like there you're not compressing anything... alhough you're able to stop... but you're a few cm away from the floor before the brakes are even touched.

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Hmm, ok that's odd, does sound like air still in the system.

I assume you made sure the level didn't drop below min while bleeding?  And that you didn't let any air back in before closing the nipple?

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Just now, TomsFocus said:

Hmm, ok that's odd, does sound like air still in the system.

I assume you made sure the level didn't drop below min while bleeding?  And that you didn't let any air back in before closing the nipple?

Topped up each time done one brake - got all the air out. I'll have another go tomorrow and have my mother on the pedal. It's driving me nuts as I was thinking is it something to do with the pedal - but if there was it wouldn't go hard when the car isn't switched on would it?

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5 minutes ago, iantt said:

have you adjusted the rear brakes ?

I've not touched the rear brakes apart from bled them, due to them been drums.

All I have recently done is changed the pads due to low, but the brake pedal was spongey before that. I've done all four brakes and nothing. It goes really tough (like a brand new car) until I switch the engine on.

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Everytime I've bleed the brakes I've only ever topped the fluid up when it gets below minimum, maybe that might be your problem, your topping the fluid up to much, as if you keep adding fluid after every bleed your only adding more air to the system

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the problem is its a 2011 Fiesta and there known to have occasional bleeding problems, you may need to take it to a ford dealer to get the "master bleed" carried out. basically the brakes are bled in conjunction with abs pump activated.

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Would you suggest bleeding all 4 again and see what happens if not it's a trip to ford? Something I can't afford right now but gonna have too if everything else fails. 

Guess this is away to get revenge on me as I refuse to use the dealer I bought the car from after already damaging the car, refusing 2 jobs that were covered under warranty and foul customer service. :( 

With me changing the pads recently would you maybe suggest double checking the piston also, or would this not make a difference? 

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i doubt anything you try will make any difference but you can try, are there any non dealer ford specialist type garages round your way, just needs a garage with access to fords diagnostic ids system to bleed your car.

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9 hours ago, Preecematt said:

Everytime I've bleed the brakes I've only ever topped the fluid up when it gets below minimum, maybe that might be your problem, your topping the fluid up to much, as if you keep adding fluid after every bleed your only adding more air to the system

That's not right I'm afraid, Matt.  You will only get air in the system if the level drops too low (as low as the MC), the only problem with overfilling is that eventually it'll come back out of the cap when you lift the pedal and make a mess lol.

 

I was always under the impression ABS valves were permanently open until it needs to work, is that no longer the case? :unsure:

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Rang 4 dealerships - each gave different answers. 

First dealer was £60 second dealer wanted £850 third dealer didn't have a clue what I was on about fourth dealer said you don't need a computer to flush the abs module instead bleed the brakes with the engine switched on. 

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If thats the response from the dealers round , I feel sorry for you, probably 2nd dealer was nearest to knowing what the problem can be if master bleed doesnt fix it, abs module replacement likely £850 probably about right.!

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The first dealer you can't speak too personally, instead you speak to someone from Newcastle Upton Tyne. The second dealer had no idea what I meant and got a technician on and he said also that there is no computer that can connect to a Fiesta to control the ABS. The second dealer was on about an ABS module, so guess that's where the £850 come from.

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Cant believe a ford dealer who doesnt there way round there diagnostic machine, even ford give a routine to follow for Fiesta spongey brakes, measuring travel etc and abs bleed / software update

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30 minutes ago, iantt said:

Cant believe a ford dealer who doesnt there way round there diagnostic machine, even ford give a routine to follow for fiesta spongey brakes, measuring travel etc and abs bleed / software update

Has it got to be a ford dealer as I know someone who has a garage they work on all cars, would they not be able to sort this?
phoned another dealer, they want £39 as they'll renew the whole fluid and apparently flush the system though the master cylinder... got whole new fluid in it, so bit of a waste.

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As long as garage has the equipment to bleed via abs pump , then any garage in theory can do it. 

Im not saying doing this is going to fix your issue , but some it does, and some it doesnt then your looking at abs module fault.

What  is most important before trying to cure spongey brakes is to have rear drums off and make sure auto adjusters on shoes are working, and if possible slightly wind adjuster but not too much that drums bind.

Then your safe in the knowledge adjustment is not your issue.

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On 4/18/2016 at 8:43 AM, TomsFocus said:

That's not right I'm afraid, Matt.  You will only get air in the system if the level drops too low (as low as the MC), the only problem with overfilling is that eventually it'll come back out of the cap when you lift the pedal and make a mess lol.

 

I was always under the impression ABS valves were permanently open until it needs to work, is that no longer the case? :unsure:

We always got told at college that was how to bleed brakes as you only replace it if gets to/below minimum although saying that they also said if your car is pulling to one side you check the other side first lol.  I can't remember ever talking about ABS valves to be honest, obviously we covered brakes as that was in the first year & I remember working on the brake rigs.

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I took it round my grandads and he had a look before I took it Ford. He knows a garage owner and a guy who deals with race cars. My grandad did all the brakes on the trains before he retired. 

Anyway, story short - the guy at the garage said it's the servo at fault and to bleed the brakes with the engine running. He deals with race cars also and is a owner of a well known garage in my area. 

My grandad couldn't figure it out as he didn't do ABS but said there is air in the system (which we know) another guy said the my pads are worn (don't see how considering they were replaced last month so he wasn't much help. The guy who does a lot with car racing said try pushing the brakes down and rebleed hopefully you'll catch it. 

Anyway, not had the chance to do anything today, but I rebleed them again last night hoping to chance my look and my brakes failed completely and hand brake light came on. Since fixed that and got brakes working. Managed to slam the brakes on a few times and feels like I'm getting more of a response only tiny but a little better. So I'll bleed them again tomorrow and hope if not, I'll take it ford. ( really do not want to give them money hence why I am been a sod about it) 

Thanks for the help. 

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I've not had chance to yet. Be weekend before I get a chance and even then I don't know if I can doing with the hassle. I might just get ford sort it for me instead of trying, loosing my patience with it. 

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On 20/04/2016 at 7:56 PM, iantt said:

you had any joy bleeding them again?

Was driving to work this morning, brakes felt a little sharper then would go back to been spongey then slightly hard again. I've not bled them as was busy yesterday but think it is bleed again and no luck just send it dealers. 

I've got to put new discs on, do you think that might make a difference with the pads not having so far to travel it's only a few mm though.. So wouldn't would it? 

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