Swearwolf

2005 2.0tdci issues

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still having problems and close to just scrapping the car and moving on... still wont go over 29mpg even with boost leak repaired

starting still takes an age and throws out white/grey smoke when it finally catches and wont fire without my foot on the accelerator all the way down

glow plugs are all brand new still working, wiring is fine from them to the glow plug relay which looks clean but can it fail? as i keep getting glow plug circuit error codes on forscan

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still having problems and close to just scrapping the car and moving on... still wont go over 29mpg even with boost leak repaired
starting still takes an age and throws out white/grey smoke when it finally catches and wont fire without my foot on the accelerator all the way down
glow plugs are all brand new still working, wiring is fine from them to the glow plug relay which looks clean but can it fail? as i keep getting glow plug circuit error codes on forscan
Where are you man? Jokes aside. Off you're Suffolk area you can swing by one evening and I'll run my eyes over it.

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2 hours ago, bashbarnard said:
2 hours ago, Swearwolf said:
still having problems and close to just scrapping the car and moving on... still wont go over 29mpg even with boost leak repaired
starting still takes an age and throws out white/grey smoke when it finally catches and wont fire without my foot on the accelerator all the way down
glow plugs are all brand new still working, wiring is fine from them to the glow plug relay which looks clean but can it fail? as i keep getting glow plug circuit error codes on forscan

Where are you man? Jokes aside. Off you're Suffolk area you can swing by one evening and I'll run my eyes over it.

unfortunately im up in northamptonshire,, thanks though mate

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used jumper cables on them off the car til they shine brighter than the sun LOL

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Glow plug fault cleared now was loose pin in plug. Still won’t start. The plugs each get 12.3v for 7 seconds once key is turned and can hear the relay click off after 7seconds... always 7 seconds either hot or cold 

 

starts first flick of key rest of day after 

 

getting embarassing

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another update. it was 9c outside this morning and went to take kids to school, car took just shy of 30 seconds to catch and fire, by far the longest its ever taken

it seemed to be cranking over too slowly to fire? as it sounded like it wanted to but didnt quite make it..

im not sure where to go now as i cleaned up all the earth connections i found etc but is it starter or battery? battery looks relatively new is 760cca 80ah yuasa thing but unsure where to go from here

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Get the battery load checked is the next thing to to do, if its not cranking fast enough the fuel doesnt get delivered correctly that could be your problem. There will be a date on the battery somewhere 

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Have you got access to a jump pack or even jump leads from a spare car?  If it fires easily with an extra boost then it's the battery at fault.  Batteries hate cold weather but starter coils prefer it.

Glad you've fixed the glow plug fault.  7 seconds should be more than enough to heat the plugs in the current temps, mines more like 2s at 5-10c, though they do also stay on after start-up for emissions reasons on the later cars, not sure if they will do the same on yours as it's probably a late Euro 3 model.

I'm wondering if you've got a minor fuel line leak tbh.  Sounds like it might be leaking back to the tank over night.  There's no low pressure (intank) pump on these so once the HP pump loses fuel it takes an age to draw all the air through before the fuel gets back.  That would also flatten the battery after waiting for the glow plugs and spending ages cranking over.

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im leaning towards a fuel issue: left it cold after my nightshift last night and recorded the fuel pressure during start up (its in kPa),

ignition on no cranking: 650 kPa (6.5 bar) (pressures all recorded at fuel rail)

initial crank no acceleration just key it crept up to 16,840 kPa (168 bar) and fired, mountains of white, dieselly smoke. turned straight off, back on, fired immediately, no smoke.

this defo suggests a fuel pressure issue doesnt it?

pressure.png

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I'm glad fuel pressure has been suggested, as the symptoms sounded very similar to my car which turned out was a faulty pump (but fuel pressure can be many other, less expensive things), as soon as that fuel pressure went back to normal the starting was a dream and mpg improved (mine's 2.2 so not a good/ even worse than a 2.0 for economy).

 

Another ex-306 owner, D-Turbo then s16 (which was FUN).

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On 9/21/2019 at 4:53 PM, Swearwolf said:

im leaning towards a fuel issue: left it cold after my nightshift last night and recorded the fuel pressure during start up (its in kPa),

ignition on no cranking: 650 kPa (6.5 bar) (pressures all recorded at fuel rail)

initial crank no acceleration just key it crept up to 16,840 kPa (168 bar) and fired, mountains of white, dieselly smoke. turned straight off, back on, fired immediately, no smoke.

this defo suggests a fuel pressure issue doesnt it?

pressure.png

Yep, looks like either the HP pump is worn and struggling or (cheaper fix) it's just leaking fuel back to the tank over night.  Have a very close look around all of the low pressure pipes and connections between the tank and the HP pump, including the fuel filter housing.  It's probably only a tiny pinhole leak somewhere.  They are awkward to find as it's not pressurised on that side so no fuel leaks out, just air leaks in.

Also, I hope I'm not the only one that read all those no's and yes's as if it was a p*rn film... :unsure:  no, no, no, yes, Yes, YEs, YES, YESSSS! :laugh: I suppose the euphoria when it finally starts is pretty similar... :lol: 

11 hours ago, AndyDC said:

I'm glad fuel pressure has been suggested, as the symptoms sounded very similar to my car which turned out was a faulty pump (but fuel pressure can be many other, less expensive things), as soon as that fuel pressure went back to normal the starting was a dream and mpg improved (mine's 2.2 so not a good/ even worse than a 2.0 for economy).

 

Another ex-306 owner, D-Turbo then s16 (which was FUN).

306 owner from Norfolk?  Did you ever come to any of the EA meets around 10 years ago?  I remember plenty of DTurbo's but no S16s there!

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I’ve done (what I hope) will help, and added a aluminium non return valve in the fuel line from filter to pump. All fitted now with some 8mm fuel hose etc, car runs fine but the real test is tomorrow morning 👍

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On 9/24/2019 at 9:31 AM, TomsFocus said:

...306 owner from Norfolk?  Did you ever come to any of the EA meets around 10 years ago?  I remember plenty of DTurbo's but no S16s there!

No, didn't do any of the meets. The DTurbo had the wolf's clothing but perhaps not quite the power to go with the looks, whereas with the S16 I'm sure people thought it was a 1.6l because of the name.

 

@Swearwolf

One thing I did to help eliminate potential causes, was to temporarily bypass the whole filter and just run a "clean" supply  of diesel (so no chance of air) from the tank line to the pump inlet, then block off the pipe that would have gone to the pump from the filter, I only had to turn the engine over a few times using the starter, that's how I discovered that air that was getting into my pump return was due to the pump itself. I also had tried a low pressure hand vacuum pump on the filter housing and pipe system but that's awkward as there are two pipes from the tank that need to be plugged and the filter's seals may be strong enough to seal normally but may leak air at forced vacuum so not a foolproof test. There are a few places that you can see the fuel in the pipes, so utilise those to check for air, if there's no air then that hints at an internal leak such as pressure regulator  / pump/ injector.

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I’m sure it’s internal or something, as the check valve on the inlet to the pump stops the fuel from backing up overnight, could the leak off pipes having a slight leak cause it?

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Non return valve won't help there, the issue is in the low pressure side somewhere either in the filter housing or in the pipes between the tank and filter. 

Fit the non return valve just after the tank outlet if that's the route you want to take.

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8 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Non return valve won't help there, the issue is in the low pressure side somewhere either in the filter housing or in the pipes between the tank and filter. 

Fit the non return valve just after the tank outlet if that's the route you want to take.

Ohh, I thought between the filter and pump was best to avoid the pressure between them dropping overnight

so I need to put a non return before the fuel filter?

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7 minutes ago, Swearwolf said:

Ohh, I thought between the filter and pump was best to avoid the pressure between them dropping overnight

so I need to put a non return before the fuel filter?

Yeah, it's probably the filter housing/connector that's leaking tbh, but the closer you can get to the tank, the more pipework you're covering. :smile:

It's such a tiny amount of fuel between the filter and pump it wont make much difference how much is there.  There isn't any pressure between the filter and pump, the pump sucks the fuel in...but it really struggles to suck air in which is why it takes an age to build up the fuel pressure once it's leaked back.

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1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Yeah, it's probably the filter housing/connector that's leaking tbh, but the closer you can get to the tank, the more pipework you're covering. :smile:

It's such a tiny amount of fuel between the filter and pump it wont make much difference how much is there.  There isn't any pressure between the filter and pump, the pump sucks the fuel in...but it really struggles to suck air in which is why it takes an age to build up the fuel pressure once it's leaked back.

so essentially the fuel filter is whats emptying overnight then? makes a bit more sense now lol

also just found my oil leak.. the vacuum pump 😮 need to find a gasket for that now...

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so

put a non return right out of the tank - still wont ***** start

replaced all injector seals and leak off seals and clips for new - still wont ***** start

just to reiterate

wont even think of starting without my foot jammed hard on the gas pedal and loads of cranking. sometimes sounding like its trying to catch but doesnt, til it eventually starts with plumes of white smoke from exhaust and into the ***** cabin if i forget to turn the fans off.

where next?!?! fuel pump?

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unplugged the coolant temp sensor this morning before starting

 

started much much quicker but not perfect

 

any ideas?

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its me again sorry to be annoying lol

i still havent rectified any of the faults even with rigourous testing and fiddling

my mpg is still maxing out at 25 on a run and its financially draining, i got a diesel to save on fuel lol

when it finally starts i also get white smoke from under the bonnet and all inside the car if i forget to turn the fans off

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You're not being annoying...we are all as gutted as you not to be able to find the fault on this one!

If honestly just give up, sell it as a runner with faults and just buy something else at this point.

If there's smoke coming into the cabin there's probably an exhaust leak around the turbo or cat somewhere.

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small update on this one.

regarding the poor fuel mileage, it came to my attention that the temp gauge never hit the centre. in fact it rarely moved at all recently off of starting position. this lead me to believe the car was running cool - and indeed it appears the thermostat is stuck open and the car is never getting to temperature. the best i got was thrashing it down the dual carriageway for 16 miles it went to 1/4 but then i put the heater on it went back to 0 position

this leads me to believe that the poor fuel mileage is due to permanent open loop in the ecu due to overcooling.. will replace stat this weekend and update

starting issue can ***** off. lol

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