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The_Imaginative_Lad

Mk6.5 Ford Fiesta Problems

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Hi,

 

Apologies if this is in the incorrect place, I assume this is the best place for it. I'll through a few issues below.

Car Specs: 

2008 Ford Fiesta Zetec Climate 1.4TDCI 68bhp 5dr MK6.5 90k miles fsh

 

Problem 1 - Injectors:

The car has been juddering for a while now and has been getting worse over the past few weeks. I had it diagnosed at a Delphi garage a few months ago who told me it's £500 for a new set of injectors. Image below of diagnostic results, cost me £72 eek:

 IMG_20200606_212327.thumb.jpg.597a321596d91ea03b32ef4810a6b49c.jpg

My car has the Siemons injectors, the battery has since been replaced.

The video showing the next issue and the other video show an example of this.

Problem 2 - Clutch/Flywheel noise:

The car until recently would slip on the clutch if I was to pull away from a junction, I bled the clutch system whilst I was bleeding the brakes with Forscan earlier this week. Even before the bleeding the car would make an awful squealing noise when pulling away, and it wasn't the tyres before you say anything haha. Demonstrated at the start of this video, end of the video shows problem 1: 

 

Problem 3 - Turbo Circuit High (overboost)

Sometimes the car, when underload, will drop a drivetrain error that lasts for a split second and returns to normal again. When it does it shakes the entire car as if fuel is suddenly cut under load. This also shows some of the juddering I experience. Before anyone says, oh it's because I'm revving the crap outta it it can happen at any RPM within sort of 2k to 4k rpm under load. It just so happened at peak rpm here;

Now unless some of this issues are known for this car, I'm probably expecting a repair cost that's going to exceed the value of the car which would be a shame since the body and all the features other than the running gear are in pretty good condition. A ford fiesta with no rust! lol

As you can also see the car is also very underpowered, nothing like the other 1.4tdci I test drove before this one at the time. This one was actually more lively when I got it.

The car was serviced about 9 months ago by the previous owner and has done about 10k miles in that time. I've changed the fuel filter, air filter and cleaned out the EGR in the time between then and now.

Typically a car which had a perfect test drive becomes a lemon very quickly, just my luck.

Some may say to drive with these problems since it runs right? Well I'm possibly starting a new job, and will be doing a 220 mile roundtrip daily. I don't really want to be on the side of the M1 with no hard shoulder having the car become an obstacle, I've been there with my old car and its not nice.

Any idea/solution would be helpful. I'm really trying to hold off buying another car, I've had 3 cars in the past 2 years with being sold off as spares and repairs and the other scrappedf. I'm a magnet for lemons so it seems, and it's getting rather expensive on the insurance being under 25. Having had a Vauxhall and a Fiat before this, I thought the Ford was going to be the 'reliable' one but was quickly told I've basically bought a Peugeot 😡

 

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Hi there, the 1.4 and 1.6 TDCI engines become quite a problem at around 80k+ miles. The injector seals fail quite easily. This is due to the engine rattle loosening the injector clamps. If not blown already, these clamps can be Torqued down slightly (5nm) to prevent them failing. The injectors fail due to poor fuel (supermarket) being used, also the fuel filter should be changed once a year and not to Ford’s long service intervals. Also fuel additives can help further. Carbon deposits are a big issue on these also, partly due to infrequent oil & oil filter changes. Apparently cheaper oil, even if it’s a 5w30 oil will do the engine no good. It has to be a premium brand oil and filter, changed every 5-6k miles and again not to Ford’s long 12k service intervals. (Ford messes up with service intervals) The carbon build up can clog the inlet manifold reducing power. I have a similar problem and will be blanking the EGR valve (another main cause of carbon build up) and removing the inlet manifold to clear out all of the carbon. 
Then onto the turbo, the carbon deposits in the oil get stuck inside the turbo oil feed filter and starves the turbo of oil, this then burns out the turbo bearings. As a preventative for this, I am going to drop the sump and replace the turbo feed so that everything is clean again. Sorry but it’s the carbon build up and poor servicing that slowly kills these cars. 

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Cheers for the reply @ScottFusionTDCI, I didn't think anyone replied as I didn't get a notification.

 

We've previously checked under the rocker cover to inspect the injectors and to check they've not made a mess under there. No mess.

The fuel filter I replaced was original with the car, so that had covered 90k since 2008. I put some Cataclean which is really good stuff in a tank before quarantine kicked in and only just managed to fill up again so it's defo had some time to soak.

 

Changing the oil every 5-6k miles is very expensive in my eyes so am probs going to look at something with a longer service interval ultimately. 

Interesting the belt could be an issue? I assume cam belt, but that was changed before I got the car so auxiliary belts?

 

Any ford actually have a decent diesel engine anymore? We have a 2L mondeo which has been problem free over the last 100k miles, just servicing and that's been it. Unfortunately that's too big for my needs (It's usually only me in the car, and for anything bigger I can use the van) and insurance is more than triple what I pay for the fiesta.

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Well I'm glad it's not just me that only buys lemons... :laugh:   It shouldn't make much difference to the insurance though, I assume you are swapping the car each time rather than cancelling the insurance and starting another lot before your years NCB is complete?

Any 10+ year old is going to have problems tbf.  I'm not sure what the actual question is now, are you looking for repairs or looking for alternatives?  Peugeot used to make the best diesels until they let Ford near them, that's when all the problems started. :sad:  You can't get a Fiesta with a Ford diesel engine (on your budget at least).  You could buy a 1.8 TDCi Mk2 Focus...that's all Ford...and suffers from dodgy injectors, knocking DMF's and costs a lot to tax...and isn't exactly refined either! :laugh:  Better off going for the 2.0 TDCI Mk2 Focus imo...that one is pretty much all Peugeot, they didn't let Ford ruin that one. :wink:  Only trouble there is some come with DPF's...and with your luck the DPF is likely to be a week away from being clogged when you buy it...

If you're looking for repairs, I'd suggest having your injectors reconditioned (much cheaper than £500) and new clutch potentially - reckon you could do those yourself?  Not sure what to suggest for the overboost issue, that's usually caused by sticky VNT vanes but your turbo isn't VNT.  It could be a sensor fault (MAF/MAP) or a boost solenoid fault not opening the wastegate when it should.  However that would make the car faster, not slower...  Though I'm not entirely sure how you know if a 1.4 TDCi is underpowered, they weren't exactly quick to start with! :biggrin: 

 

Which year/Mk of Mondeo do you have?  Up to Mk3 they used a Ford 2.0 TDCi engine, Mk4 onwards is a Peugeot 2.0 TDCi.

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@TomsFocus

And unfortunately they don't make themselves aware to us that they are lemons until its too late to send it back to garage we got them from 😂

Yeah I swap the car on the policy, as I don't want to risk cancelling my NCB and honestly don't know how it works if I can transfer that, etc. Better safe than sorry, they aren't that clear over the phone and you only realise when it's too late.

I know I was going to have a few issues with the car, the only things I was made aware of was the boot release only working manually and not via button, rear window actuator needed replacing, air conditioning not working. Other than that it ran nice when purchased, it was returned for a fault that arose a week later. The glowplugs had thrown the car into limp mode but they took it back no questions and two days later I had it back fully fixed and working.

Over the next few weeks I replaced the boot release mechanism which was a quick 10 min job and got the window mechanism working after a trip to a local scrappers. Air con only needed new oil and gas and it's been working ever since, I do make sure to run it as often as possible as I really don't know how long it was left how it was. Then it was onto the most important fix *cough* 

iF34Xwx.jpg 

Plus my dad insisted I put a sticker on there or something that can be recognised due to number plate theft being on the rise again. I had that problem with the works van when I got pulled by police as there system had flagged an offence made 20 mins ago in London, yet I was Sheffield at the time. That got sorted luckily.

I'm looking for repairs, but honestly to see if it's worth it. The car itself is very nice and of high spec for a tdci zetec fiesta. The 'nicer' alloys, privacy glass, better trip info, audio system, full colour trim, mini lip spoiler, etc. Oh and no complaints with £30 a year road tax 😄

Really it would be a shame if I had to get rid, considering the car is worth like £1500 to £2000 in good working condition? Injectors are at least £500, clutch £150 but with flywheel £400-£500. That's £1000 worse case scenario, then there is that turbo overboost. That could be fixed for nothing if something is setup wrong, or I could need a new turbo according to my mechanic mate. I possibly could do these myself, the injectors I could replace as they don't need coding or if someone does know of a place that can get them reconditioned? The clutch is a possibility, I have axles stands and a driveway but I've never worked on the clutch/gearbox assembly other than that bleed nipple and on the old car to replace the gearbox oil. Would you trust those YouTube tutorials? They look promising but they sometimes cut and miss stuff I'd like to know out. Additionally I'd only know about the flywheel condition (if that squealing is a drivebelt) when I take the clutch assembly out right? 

Yeah I know the 1.4TDCI wasn't exactly fast, infact it's the slowest variant of the fiesta if I remember correctly? If I do get the above work done, and done for a reasonable price then I've heard these remap nicely to around 85/90bhp. Especially if I do a new clutch then that could be worth looking at. Honestly the car drives nice, it's just running like a dog. It holds the motorway nice, stress free (unlike the fiat I had 😂). Only thing it's missing is cruise control, that would've been a nice addition.

The Mondeo is a 2011 2L 163 Duratorq. Infact there was one problem I forgot at the time. Doser Injector in the exhaust system but other than that the only expenses are fuel, servicing and suspension components (potholes).

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30 minutes ago, The_Imaginative_Lad said:

@TomsFocus

And unfortunately they don't make themselves aware to us that they are lemons until its too late to send it back to garage we got them from 😂

Yeah I swap the car on the policy, as I don't want to risk cancelling my NCB and honestly don't know how it works if I can transfer that, etc. Better safe than sorry, they aren't that clear over the phone and you only realise when it's too late.

I know I was going to have a few issues with the car, the only things I was made aware of was the boot release only working manually and not via button, rear window actuator needed replacing, air conditioning not working. Other than that it ran nice when purchased, it was returned for a fault that arose a week later. The glowplugs had thrown the car into limp mode but they took it back no questions and two days later I had it back fully fixed and working.

Over the next few weeks I replaced the boot release mechanism which was a quick 10 min job and got the window mechanism working after a trip to a local scrappers. Air con only needed new oil and gas and it's been working ever since, I do make sure to run it as often as possible as I really don't know how long it was left how it was. Then it was onto the most important fix *cough* 

 

  Hide contents

iF34Xwx.jpg 

 

Plus my dad insisted I put a sticker on there or something that can be recognised due to number plate theft being on the rise again. I had that problem with the works van when I got pulled by police as there system had flagged an offence made 20 mins ago in London, yet I was Sheffield at the time. That got sorted luckily.

I'm looking for repairs, but honestly to see if it's worth it. The car itself is very nice and of high spec for a tdci zetec fiesta. The 'nicer' alloys, privacy glass, better trip info, audio system, full colour trim, mini lip spoiler, etc. Oh and no complaints with £30 a year road tax 😄

Really it would be a shame if I had to get rid, considering the car is worth like £1500 to £2000 in good working condition? Injectors are at least £500, clutch £150 but with flywheel £400-£500. That's £1000 worse case scenario, then there is that turbo overboost. That could be fixed for nothing if something is setup wrong, or I could need a new turbo according to my mechanic mate. I possibly could do these myself, the injectors I could replace as they don't need coding or if someone does know of a place that can get them reconditioned? The clutch is a possibility, I have axles stands and a driveway but I've never worked on the clutch/gearbox assembly other than that bleed nipple and on the old car to replace the gearbox oil. Would you trust those YouTube tutorials? They look promising but they sometimes cut and miss stuff I'd like to know out. Additionally I'd only know about the flywheel condition (if that squealing is a drivebelt) when I take the clutch assembly out right? 

Yeah I know the 1.4TDCI wasn't exactly fast, infact it's the slowest variant of the fiesta if I remember correctly? If I do get the above work done, and done for a reasonable price then I've heard these remap nicely to around 85/90bhp. Especially if I do a new clutch then that could be worth looking at. Honestly the car drives nice, it's just running like a dog. It holds the motorway nice, stress free (unlike the fiat I had 😂). Only thing it's missing is cruise control, that would've been a nice addition.

The Mondeo is a 2011 2L 163 Duratorq. Infact there was one problem I forgot at the time. Doser Injector in the exhaust system but other than that the only expenses are fuel, servicing and suspension components (potholes).

That Mondeo uses a Peugeot engine then! :biggrin:  DPF atomiser is a fairly common on them, but otherwise they really are reliable.  It's the same 2.0 TDCi in the Focus, though tweaked a bit through the years.  

Most injector refurb places are online now, just post your injectors off and get them back a few days later all sorted.  @zain611 might be able to recommend the place where he had his done.

Clutches aren't hard to do, but you'll probably want help lifting the gearbox in & out unless you're a Hulk lol.  I've done several myself but it's not fun!  At least the Fiesta is only 5 speed lol.  YouTube & forum guides are always useful but not perfect...I've made a few! :laugh:  If you do get stuck, there's always someone on here willing to offer advice.

I'm not sure that you'll have a dual mass flywheel on the 1.4 TDCi, some have them and some don't...there's no way to tell until the gearbox is off, even the car parts places won't know.  Obviously there's a massive cost saving if yours is SMF!

 

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10 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

That Mondeo uses a Peugeot engine then! :biggrin:  DPF atomiser is a fairly common on them, but otherwise they really are reliable.  It's the same 2.0 TDCi in the Focus, though tweaked a bit through the years.  

Most injector refurb places are online now, just post your injectors off and get them back a few days later all sorted.  @zain611 might be able to recommend the place where he had his done.

Clutches aren't hard to do, but you'll probably want help lifting the gearbox in & out unless you're a Hulk lol.  I've done several myself but it's not fun!  At least the Fiesta is only 5 speed lol.  YouTube & forum guides are always useful but not perfect...I've made a few! :laugh:  If you do get stuck, there's always someone on here willing to offer advice.

I'm not sure that you'll have a dual mass flywheel on the 1.4 TDCi, some have them and some don't...there's no way to tell until the gearbox is off, even the car parts places won't know.  Obviously there's a massive cost saving if yours is SMF!

 

Ah would be great if they can be refurbed. Let me know about the popular ones around here. Been to main dealer today Ford Sandicliffe as the Mondeo needed some clips only they could supply and I asked the parts lady about injectors. She said she has never sold any for my car, but a common request are injector copper seals and the rubber o rings. Obviously I'd need new copper seals when I take them out and send em off, price permitting, but interesting to know seals are a common issue. 

Another thing to note is white smoke on start-up, only noticed it today so must be a new thing. I assume all injector related. I know some say it's condensate but it's definitely white smoke and only on cold start-up.

The gearbox, well I would have someone helping me but I also have a board with wheels on it, I could also put a jack on that which might aid that, permitting the car raised enough. I should've asked whilst she had my car loaded up on their system if the clutch was SMF or DMF but guess I'll keep that a surprise 😕 I could ask when I go to get seals as £12 for copper seals and o rings is a good price and direct from Ford.

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8 hours ago, The_Imaginative_Lad said:

Ah would be great if they can be refurbed. Let me know about the popular ones around here. Been to main dealer today Ford Sandicliffe as the Mondeo needed some clips only they could supply and I asked the parts lady about injectors. She said she has never sold any for my car, but a common request are injector copper seals and the rubber o rings. Obviously I'd need new copper seals when I take them out and send em off, price permitting, but interesting to know seals are a common issue. 

Another thing to note is white smoke on start-up, only noticed it today so must be a new thing. I assume all injector related. I know some say it's condensate but it's definitely white smoke and only on cold start-up.

The gearbox, well I would have someone helping me but I also have a board with wheels on it, I could also put a jack on that which might aid that, permitting the car raised enough. I should've asked whilst she had my car loaded up on their system if the clutch was SMF or DMF but guess I'll keep that a surprise 😕 I could ask when I go to get seals as £12 for copper seals and o rings is a good price and direct from Ford.

Injector seals are very common on both this engine and the 1.6 TDCi.  The injectors work loose over time which allows some compression to pass them and create a mess around the top of the injector and a chuffing noise with the engine running.  Ford dealer price for brand new injectors would be laughable so I'm not surprised no-one buys them there!  I don't think there are any popular injector refurbishers, a lot have disappeared over the last few years.  Best just to Google and see what reviews each place has...you might even find one local that you could deliver to in person.

It's really damp out today, that's probably what caused your white steam on cold start up.  Just keep an eye on it for now.

Ford won't know if your car has a SMF or DMF either lol...seems to just be whatever they had lying around the factory on that day! :laugh: 

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Update: Injectors had an impedance test which they failed, they are supposed to take 100v and they took closer to 40 to 60v across all four which explains the juddering when fueling is needed and they can't deliver. Looking for injector reconditioning as four new / used injectors are still expensive. Issue being the moment I mention they've failed electrically places always say no, been in contact with 4 local places so far. Might be looking at a lost cause by continuing to pursue this.

 

Edit: Additionally the seals are good and there is no chuffing, it's clean (within reason).

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@TomsFocus

Hey, 

Thought it's best to tag you as you seem to know what you are talking about. 

So I've been offered a set of four injectors for £120, plus fitting although they've said they can provide the injectors for me to install either way. Now the issue being, they aren't Siemons and they are for the MK7 70ps engine. Wondering if they are interchangeable? No worries if they aren't I'll just keep looking.

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2 hours ago, The_Imaginative_Lad said:

@TomsFocus

Hey, 

Thought it's best to tag you as you seem to know what you are talking about. 

So I've been offered a set of four injectors for £120, plus fitting although they've said they can provide the injectors for me to install either way. Now the issue being, they aren't Siemons and they are for the MK7 70ps engine. Wondering if they are interchangeable? No worries if they aren't I'll just keep looking.

No, they're not interchangeable, keep looking. :smile:

Regarding the injector seals, you will need to replace the copper washers with new injectors, they crush and deform to the shape of your injector and injector seat so they shouldn't be re-used. 

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Ah ok,

I've found some others, re-manufactured for £95 so they look like my best bet. Typically Siemons are soo much more than Bosch variants, plus being Euro4 and not Euro3 also makes them more expensive 😞

Oh well, not too bad considering they'll probably last the lifetime of the engine. Just got to wait for payday now.

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I have an almost immaculate 58 Zetec Climate 1,4 Tdci in Frozen White that cost me £800 and your issues brought back many memories.

White Smoke, Knackered Boot switch, Sticky window.

I overpaid for my 4 injectors and 4 glow plugs but I wanted decent refurbished ones rather than from a scrapyard.

I replaced all 4 tyres, 2 Front shocks (not absolutely necessary) and a Bosch EGR and it runs like a dream.

Adding a £135 after market 2 din stereo/satnav/dvd/cd/ reverse cam (fits straight into a Mk 6.5) and I have a great motorway/town car at £30 tax and £225 insurance (3yr NCD).

 

The point is that with spending not too much you have a decent little car that feels bigger and any subsequent parts are reasonable.

Unlike me, don't go too mad on getting it just right unless you intend to keep it because you will never get your money back, despite running like new mine is lucky to get £500 from a dealer because of its 160k mileage.

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On 7/22/2020 at 9:14 AM, Mad Scotsman said:

I have an almost immaculate 58 Zetec Climate 1,4 Tdci in Frozen White that cost me £800 and your issues brought back many memories.

White Smoke, Knackered Boot switch, Sticky window.

I overpaid for my 4 injectors and 4 glow plugs but I wanted decent refurbished ones rather than from a scrapyard.

I replaced all 4 tyres, 2 Front shocks (not absolutely necessary) and a Bosch EGR and it runs like a dream.

Adding a £135 after market 2 din stereo/satnav/dvd/cd/ reverse cam (fits straight into a Mk 6.5) and I have a great motorway/town car at £30 tax and £225 insurance (3yr NCD).

 

The point is that with spending not too much you have a decent little car that feels bigger and any subsequent parts are reasonable.

Unlike me, don't go too mad on getting it just right unless you intend to keep it because you will never get your money back, despite running like new mine is lucky to get £500 from a dealer because of its 160k mileage.

Did you find the new injectors to be a new lease of life as to say? 


With COVID on-going, and an unexpected trip to get my MOT done which cost a bit more than I expected (the 6 month extension I missed out on by 3 days) has meant I've not been able to do any work to the car. I've been nursing it along, but it's really struggling. Seems really down on power, and then eventually just gives up and drops into limp mode. Here I'm not even keeping up with a transit van and that's it going full welly in 2nd gear: 

I know the 1.4TDCI isn't known as a fast engine, but even for this it's running underpowered. Codes are as before, with turbo overboost being the consistent issue, even with sensors unplugged.

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Please don't drive in limp for very much longer, you will cause more damage than it's worth.

It's limited to around 30 mph for a very good reason.

Yes, I probably got about 10% increase in power and it ran much quieter but it wasn't too bad to start with, just a bit smokey.

Depending on your budget, you have these choices:-

1   Get injectors from the scrapyard/ebay for around £90 each (Always install new seals and rubber piping)

2    Have yours professionally reconditioned - if you can't find some where near you,my local guy is https://www.bobbeckfuelinjection.co.uk/

3.   Buy properly reconditioned ones from same guy for £150+

4    Pay £1400 like I did in a garage (did include new 4 glow plugs)

5    Buy mine for £1000 , (just done the aircon & reversing cam on top of everything else but want something bigger) and get what you can for yours, I would rather it went to someone who appreciated all the work I put into it and I simply chalk it up to experience rather than take £500 from a dealer who sells it on for £1500.

 

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