Because (partly due to Covid) our Mk3 1.0L Ecoboost has only covered just over 2000 miles in the last 12 months I decided to forgo a service this year. Instead I bought a 4-litre can of Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start 5W 20 and just gave it some fresh oil. I didn't change the filter, just used my Pela vacuum oil-extractor down the dipstick tube. I got a full 4 Litres out and poured the new oil in. Checked the dipstick and it just reached the top notch. Tried to start the car and it just spins over but won't fire. It has keyless start and spins for a few seconds whilst I'm holding the button in then stops. I tried four times but no joy, then I found the battery was starting to wilt so had to give up on it.

What I noticed was the oil light wasn't going out so I assume that's what's preventing the ECU from firing it up. Surely the oil pump must be self-priming so after four attempts there should be some pressure building up.

One thing to mention, which may or may not be relevant, is that yesterday after standing for a week or two it wouldn't turn over when I pressed the button so the battery has been on charge for 24 hours. (Which is why I raised my other thread about recommendations for a new battery). With the benefit of hindsight I wish I'd tried it before changing the oil in case it is related to yesterday's problem.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions. I have Forscan and a Tunnelrat cable so if something needs resetting I should be able to do it.

 

I'd be surprised if it was anything other than the battery.

I agree it seems significant this happened after the battery died (well, there was still enough to operate the locking and dash) but after the 24 hours on charge it was spinning the engine over pretty briskly. I can understand the ECU preventing the starter from operating if the battery is weak but if there's enough oomph to spin it over surely it would be daft not to allow it to start (I'm aware that Ford software is programmed by monkeys though ).

I will be getting a new battery as soon as I can find the correct one at a sensible price. In the meantime I might plug Forscan in and see if I can see anything. I haven't used it before other than a quick test to check for DTC's on our Mk2.5 so it'll be a bit of a learning curve. That becomes more of a problem as senility creeps on .

There is a rev threshold the PCM needs to see before it'll let the injectors fire.  I don't know what it is on these but it's usually around 200rpm...and being digital, it only needs to be 1rpm below the threshold for it to not to risk a start.  

Forscan is all pretty intuitive, can't really go wrong with it!  If you do try it, expect many low voltage codes to appear.  You can also check how high the RPMs are reaching on live data.

 

 

I have to say I'll be surprised if it does turn out to be the battery (but relieved that it's nothing more serious). I put the battery on my CeKa intelligent charger again and it went right through its sequence without reporting any problems. The 'magic eye' in the battery is showing green (I know that's only one cell though) and it seems to me to be spinning the engine pretty fast. If the threshold really is that high it's an idiotic way to write software. What possible purpose can it serve?

Anyway I've got a new battery on the way, should get it tomorrow. It doesn't look like a walk in the park changing it

I'm still worried that the oil light isn't going out.

10 hours ago, mjt said:

What possible purpose can it serve?

Not flooding the engine or ruining the cat with the raw petrol that would be be dumped through it from a failed cold start. 

 

The oil light not going out yet is a bit odd but I don't think that stops them starting.  People on here often drive with the oil light on for miles before complaining of an annoying light on the dash and a funny rattle from the engine...   I did wonder last night, if there was some thick sludge in the bottom of the sump that didn't get picked up by the Pela and was subsequently stirred up by the fresh oil and clogged the oil pump strainer.  Seems pretty unlikely though!  

Out of interest, does the Pela specifically say not to warm the engine before draining the oil?  I've got a cheap electric suction pump and that says to warm the oil to ease the motor load...it's so quick though, it took longer waiting for the oil to warm up than it did setting up the pump and draining it!

 

I don't think the Pela warns not to use it with hot oil. I've used it with hot oil before without problems but I decided not to warm up the engine this time because I didn't want the delay while it drained back into the sump. To be honest the 5W 20 is like cat's P anyway and it was very quick. I think it's unlikely to have much, if any, sludge because it's only on 39,700 miles and in the five years we've had it it's only done between 5K - 7K per year and has been serviced annually. Also it's journeys have been almost exclusively extra-urban on A-roads and dual-carriageways and of at least 30 minutes duration. The Pela must have gone pretty much to the bottom of the sump because I got 4 Litres out which is the full volume without a filter change.

Regarding not flooding the engine I can understand that argument if it was cranking so slowly as not to 'catch' but I'd say intuitively it was cranking at or close to the normal speed.

I'll dig out and fire up my old laptop today and see what Forscan has to report. Hopefully the new battery will arrive but on Wilco's advice in my other thread I'll be putting it on the charger before fitting it.

I've had a 15 quid pump off eBay and pumped warm, not hot, oil through it many times.

I don't know of any car that knows not to start because there's insufficient oil.  And anyway if u measured out 4 ltr and filled with 4 ltr, your looking in the wrong place

having not done it the normal way, could you have shorted something out, knocked off a pipe or connector?  lets pretend that's not the issue...

the more interesting point was the dead battery.  how did you charge, what did you charge with, did you connect back to front blowing up a module etc? lets pretend that not the issue

I wonder if the immobiliser has lost the plot... connect up diagnostics and check start/drive authorisation is given or its never going to start

FYI whilst not doing the filter seems simple / easy its not the brightest idea.  They are so cheap so easy to change … once the oils out the filter is a 2 min job

what people forget is filters have a bypass so whilst the oil will go round, if there a lots on nasties clogging up the filter you will pump unfiltered oil round for the next 12k miles

if its one year old and 2 k miles why touch it, charging the battery would have been the correct maintenance strategy

you say "button"....   replace the fob batteries and check the manual for getting the key and immobiliser to talk  - could be a bit around unlocking the car a certain way / getting the key and the car to communicate

28 minutes ago, Botus said:

having not done it the normal way, could you have shorted something out, knocked off a pipe or connector?  lets pretend that's not the issue...

I doubt that removing/replacing the dipstick and oil filler cap would have disturbed anything else. Nor would removing and refitting the battery cover.

28 minutes ago, Botus said:

the more interesting point was the dead battery.  how did you charge, what did you charge with, did you connect back to front blowing up a module etc? lets pretend that not the issue

I used a CTEK charger which claims to be safe to charge with the battery in situ and automatically detects reverse connection.

20 minutes ago, Botus said:

you say "button"....   replace the fob batteries and check the manual for getting the key and immobiliser to talk  - could be a bit around unlocking the car a certain way / getting the key and the car to communicate

I was referring to the 'Start' button, it has keyless start. The fob batteries are fairly new. The car detects low fob batteries and flashes up a warning on the info screen. Interestingly it still did this after I'd replaced the batteries in my fob and I realised it was also detecting those in the spare carried by my wife. I may be wrong but I think if the immobiliser was the problem it wouldn't turn over on the starter.

Bearing in mind what I have already stated in regard to the way the car has been driven and serviced I seriously doubt the filter would be blocked 2000 miles after the last service. Considering the service interval is, I think, 12,500 miles I don't think the filter needed to be changed as it still won't have reached anywhere near that figure by the time of the next service.

I would not feel happy leaving the old filter in. It might have picked up sludge stired up by the tube in the vacuum pump. And have oil of a different type mixed in it. I would change the oil and filter again using the sump drain plug method. The oil light staying on is worrying.

 

if the immobiliser is not playing ball it will crank no issue, but it just won't start

sounds to me like the car and the keys need to go through a learning phase...   I expect this is the issue,

on the older ones you can see if the immobiliser is happy on the cluster it has lights to say yes or no

23 hours ago, Kevin#95 said:

I would not feel happy leaving the old filter in. It might have picked up sludge stired up by the tube in the vacuum pump. And have oil of a different type mixed in it. I would change the oil and filter again using the sump drain plug method. The oil light staying on is worrying.

Maybe you would, and back in the day I probably would have too but at 76 years of age with arthritis and back issues I'm not going to be lying under my car to get the undertray off to change the filter, far less drain the oil from there. Those days are long gone and I'm obliged to make use of garage services these days. As it's only covered 2000 miles in the last year I decided it would be a waste of money to have it serviced and sufficient to just put some fresh oil in.

If/when I get it running again I shall be watching carefully ready to switch off if the oil light doesn't go off promptly.

I had a right game with Forscan yesterday. My ancient laptop running Vista suddenly decided not to recognise the USB ELM cable. I hadn't used it since last year when I first installed it and it worked perfectly then. Re-installing the driver didn't help. To make matters worse the sun was so strong I had trouble seeing the screen and it was flippin' hot inside. Eventually I gave in and downloaded a new driver and copy of Forscan and installed it on my new Windows 10 laptop. Then I went out to the car later in the evening and managed to read some DTC's which, predictably, reported low system voltage.

@TomsFocus I was hoping to use the engine rpm PID to monitor the cranking speed but with keyless start it seems I have to turn the ignition off before it will operate the starter. When I tried to start by pressing the clutch and then the start button it turned the ignition off so I'm wondering what will happen to Forscan when the power briefly disappears from the ODB port. In the event it turned out the battery voltage was so low that the starter wouldn't operate so I'll have to wait for the new battery which is now not arriving until tomorrow.

As a matter of interest it also reported this DTC. Any ideas what might have triggered it?:

7 minutes ago, mjt said:

 

@TomsFocus I was hoping to use the engine rpm PID to monitor the cranking speed but with keyless start it seems I have to turn the ignition off before it will operate the starter. When I tried to start by pressing the clutch and then the start button it turned the ignition off so I'm wondering what will happen to Forscan when the power briefly disappears from the ODB port. In the even it turned out the battery voltage was so low that the starter wouldn't operate again so I'll have to wait for the new battery which is now not arriving until tomorrow.

I think if you press the clutch and hold the starter button it'll start without cutting the ignition first?  I'm sure I've done it on the diesel to warm the plugs - before realising that it automatically starts after the plug light goes out if you just keep the clutch pressed!  

Maybe it just did it because of the low voltage then. I'll report back after I've got the new battery in.

Im no expert but I would suspect that the Crash Input DTC will prevent the engine starting. It MIGHT have been caused by the low battery condition. If the battery is now showing a reasonable charge then disconnecting for a while MAY reset the DTC. If not then I THINK that Forscan has a service procedure to reset the Crash Input flag.

Google is your friend ... 

3 hours ago, ianincheshire said:

Google is your friend

DuckDuckGo is my friend. I avoid Google - I value my privacy!

After reading the DTC's I tried clearing them and I'm pretty sure only one of the voltage ones came back. From the DDGing I've done it seems as though the crash DTC should have come from the BCM or been registered in the RCM so I'm a bit baffled. I think the best course of action is to wait until I've fitted the new battery and take it from there.

Yeah I use ddg too.  Blocks all the trackers.

if you are still seeing low voltage you will continue to have issues...

crash input  - has it ever been pranged - my sisters had this on the dash after hit by others and it was in limp mode.... not sure how you reset (was all done by the bodyshop)

any serious fault will come straight back, so long as you grabbed a copy in screen shot or photo (to help if anything nasty needs a kick) pretty safe to wipe things out and see where you are...   

can you find how the cluster shows the immobiliser handshake is OK, its in the manual I expect

On 8/23/2020 at 1:14 PM, mjt said:

As a matter of interest it also reported this DTC. Any ideas what might have triggered it?:

Faulty Restraints Control Module (RCM)

Restraints Control Module (RCM) harness is open or shorted

Restraints Control Module (RCM) circuit poor electrical connection

Faulty Body Control Module (BCM)

Read more: https://www.autocodes.com/b10a2_ford.html

1 hour ago, Botus said:

crash input  - has it ever been pranged - my sisters had this on the dash after hit by others and it was in limp mode.... not sure how you reset (was all done by the bodyshop)

any serious fault will come straight back, so long as you grabbed a copy in screen shot or photo (to help if anything nasty needs a kick) pretty safe to wipe things out and see where you are.

As far as I know it hasn't. Although we're not the original owners I don't think the HPI check flagged anything.

I'm making a point of taking screenshots of any DTCs before attempting to clear them.

@Freeze : I've already been on that site which is why I expressed surprise that it hadn't registered a code in the BCM or RCM. Hopefully it'll prove to have been caused by the low battery voltage.

I now have the new battery but it's taken 7 hours to get it up to full charge on my CTEK charger so too late to do anything tonight and it looks as if I'll be trying to dodge storm Francis to get it fitted now .

Ok, time for a final update. I fitted the battery yesterday and the car fired up instantly on pressing the button. The oil light extinguished within about 2 seconds. Having satisfied myself it would run I reset the BMS. It will be interesting to see if the Stop-Start now works. It had only worked a few times after we'd bought it nearly five years ago but that's suited me fine, virtually all it's mileage is at a steady 60-70 on A-roads and dual-carriageways and I reckon it's saved a lot of wear on the starter.

As I expected it was a time-consuming job changing the batteries over, necessitating the removal of the air cleaner housing and then the BMS panel that fits into a slot and forms the front of the battery box. This was particularly troublesome because of the cables connected to it which I didn't want to disconnect and the loom from the engine bay fusebox that's routed right across it. In the end I managed to release it from it's slot and pull the top edge down far enough to wriggle the old battery out and the new one in. I have to say this is not an intelligent design. It took me far longer than changing the battery on our Mk2.5.

I found I needed to remove the handle from the Varta battery as it fouled the negative lead which is routed across the battery. Without the handle it was a bit more difficult manoeuvring it into position. I just managed to get the clamp flush with the terminal and clamped tight.

The final job, which I completed this morning, was to re-check for DTCs. It had thrown up a few more due to the battery disconnection - my attempt to maintain the supply with an external power source didn't work for some reason - and they were all successfully cleared. The crash input DTC hasn't reappeared so it looks all good now.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

 

_{Crikey, it's no wonder I go to KwikFit when I need a battery LOL}