I will take my chances in an ev regards a fire compared to a ice petrol car( very topical today sadly) 

9 minutes ago, iantt said:

I will take my chances in an ev regards a fire compared to a ice petrol car( very topical today sadly) 

Probably safer than gardening. There's a house in the next street (now named "Phoenix House") which had to be demolished and rebuilt. All because someone was burning a pile of dead leaves too near some uPVC cladding!

I find it odd the way people fixate on a reason not to get an EV. It catching fire is so remote. Rather than the fundamental reason that the mass production of 600Kg LiIon batteries is not 'green'. Having to charge a battery on a journey is often inconvenient, and in public, expensive. All the initial 'freebies' announced by government like free road tax will disappear. They are fabulous for urban use, but vast swathes of UK population live in a rural style environment.

Catching fire is certainly something I wouldn't worry about with an EV. Leaving it charging in a car park, and returning to see the cable lying on the ground after being pulled out by some kid for fun, is...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/discount-of-up-to-3750-on-electric-cars-set-to-slash-costs-for-thousands

This scheme starts on Wednesday apparently but it's not yet clear what cars will qualify. It seems to be based on a "science based target" (always a worry when Government is "following the science") of mind boggling complexity.

https://www.independent.co.uk/cars/electric-vehicles/government-electric-car-grants-b2788846.html

I have concerns that the main beneficiaries will be the Chinese, and drivers who were intending to switch anyway. It won't do much to help the "ordinary working people" they keep talking about (but have great difficulty in defining) who probably can't afford a new car of any type.

 

Electric cars will be cheaper to buy, pledges Heidi Alexander - BBC News
Instead, she pointed to a £25m package that will be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure.
Electric cars will be cheaper to buy, pledges Heidi Alexander - BBC News

This is cobblers for a load of reasons including :

1 - The whole idea is rubbish anyway and it can only have been dreamt up by people who have never had to park their own car on the road ! After all, what are the chances of being able to park right outside your house (and preferably facing the right way...) ? So you would get home and have to charge your car, but someone is parked where your "cross pavement gulley" is, what do you do ?

2 - And in any case £25 million is a piffling amount, that's 38p per member of the population....

It would be useful simply to ensure all public chargers, of whatever output, can accept payment by contactless credit/debit card. They've already ruled that new chargers over 8kw must accept contactless, but there are still loads of old ones that don't. And many of those are in areas with poor mobile reception where using apps would be hit and miss.

I see Heidi Alexander still has an ICE car herself**, so might be able to benefit from her latest scheme personally: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14901229/Transport-Secretary-afford-electric-car-subsidies-sales-charger.html

I read today she states the scheme will "help our automotive sector seize one of the biggest opportunities of the 21st century".

I'm curious as to how everyone buying an EV made abroad (predominantly in China or with Chinese components) will help the UK auto industry. Afaik the only all electric vehicles made here, are the Nissan Leaf, Stellantis Group vans, and the odd bus and taxi. Even the current😀 electric MINI is made in China at present.

**Ed Miliband does, apparently, though it's claimed only after Susannah Reid gave him the Third Degree on Good Morning Britain!

 

20 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I see Heidi Alexander still has an ICE car herself**, so might be able to benefit from her latest scheme personally: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14901229/Transport-Secretary-afford-electric-car-subsidies-sales-charger.html

Now to be fair, she did confess that her current ICE car is 6 years old and she doesn't change her car that often, but did promise to get an EV next time. Obviously waiting for the £3750 grant to kick in 🤣 MPs may also qualify for other incentives which the government may, or may not keep secret!

52 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

MPs may also qualify for other incentives which the government may, or may not keep secret!

Surely Governments don't conceal the truth, do they? Oh, hang on:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/everything-to-know-afghan-data-leak-3808222

 

As expected, I've already started seeing backlash about the EV subsidy scheme in letters to the press and internet posts. General theme is "why should someone buying a £37,000 car get a subsidy from other taxpayers who probably can't afford a new car of any type?" etc.

 This is precisely what I wrote to my MP about some time ago but just got back the usual "clean energy superpower" nonesense.

Interestingly a nearby car dealer (who includes a few words of wisdom in his regular ads) also commented:

https://www.luscombemotors.co.uk/news/robins-diary-216

3 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

As expected, I've already started seeing backlash enough the EV subsidy scheme in letters to the press and internet posts. General theme is "why should someone buying a £37,000 get a subsidy from other taxpayers who probably can't afford a new car of any type?" etc.

Sadly, it's reported that Ed Milliband's net worth is around £15 Million. The guy hasn't a clue how ordinary folk live...

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

The guy hasn't a clue how ordinary folk live...

You can tell that by his failure to eat a bacon sarnie correctly😀

Dunno about actual net worth - I've seen such a wide range of figures quoted, some frankly ludicrously low (and high). 

All we can be 100% sure of is basic pay as an MP (£91,346) plus £67,605 as Secretary of State. Not a bad salary, but insignificant compared to bosses of Water Companies who seem to be no more competent. 

Other income (directorships, speaking fees, etc) should be declared in the Parliamentary Register of Members interests, donations from supporters to his office or the party are also visible.

Total household income will be pretty good though, as his other half is Judge Dame Justine Thornton KC who does quite nicely in her own right, thank you very much!

Whatever, they're not really these "ordinary working people" they find so hard to define.

When I was a lad, the bulk of Labour MPs in my area were ex-miners (the niece of ours was in my class at school).

 

 

 

As if the whole notion of taxpayers funding a portion of the purchase of an electric vehicle for private use isn’t bad enough. The scheme as I understand it would require the public to buy vehicles that probably won’t meet their needs and would be very limited by their range. It’s boils down to only getting a subsidy for the purchase of a vehicle that will be restricted to short distances and also probably will be heavily taxed for road use and parking! What they really want is for people to ride a bus or train for travel and walk or bike to nearby destinations. It’s quite ludicrous that this situation has been allowed to get to this point.

In America, we are shifting away from mandates for electric vehicles and moving towards more hybridized ice vehicles and plug in hybrid vehicles. Toyota and Honda have demonstrated that this technology is viable and affordable without having to create a new infrastructure to run it.
 

9 minutes ago, Scottman said:

In America, we are shifting away from mandates for electric vehicles and moving towards more hybridized ice vehicles and plug in hybrid vehicles....

On Page ONE of this thread, I've confessed to being a massive fan of hybrids. Nice to see the world appearing to catch up 🤣

24 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I've confessed to being a massive fan of hybrids.

Is that the car equivalent of a person being transgender ? 🤣

12 minutes ago, unofix said:

Is that the car equivalent of a person being transgender ? 🤣

Absolutely not!! Sport is now waking up to the fact that it is grossly unfair for 'transgender' to  compete in women's sport. Men & women are different, even enshrined now in UK law as the PM didn't know the difference. Hybrids are a total common sense approach to propulsion where most can see that...

39 minutes ago, Scottman said:

What they really want is for people to ride a bus or train for travel and walk or bike to nearby destinations.

Personally I'm very happy to do so where possible. The main issue here is in many areas outside major cities bus provision is poor to non-existent, and train fares (again, where available) are ridiculously high. 

10 hours ago, Scottman said:

What they really want is for people to ride a bus or train

Well they need vastly improved public transport in rural areas then. My workplace is 25 minutes away from my home by car. If I want to take a bus or train to work I would need to leave home on Sunday afternoon to arrive at work for my 8:00 start on Monday morning.

2 hours ago, pcaouolte said:

Well they need vastly improved public transport in rural areas then.

My nearest bus stop is almost a mile away, I then get a choice of 2 x buses/day into my nearest city. The policy makers all live in London where you can get a bus every 4 minutes, and a tube every 3 minutes. They haven't a clue how real people live...

3 hours ago, pcaouolte said:

My workplace is 25 minutes away from my home by car. 

Coincidentally my last one was, also. When I first started work I had no immediate intention of getting a car, but I was on a training scheme with placements in several locations, all needing 2 - 3 buses/trains. I gave in after the first winter!

 

 

5 hours ago, pcaouolte said:

Well they need vastly improved public transport in rural areas then. My workplace is 25 minutes away from my home by car. If I want to take a bus or train to work I would need to leave home on Sunday afternoon to arrive at work for my 8:00 start on Monday morning.

That’s not going to happen, it hasn’t been part of any plan on any Continent as far as know. And this is the unspoken truth about these plans. The plan for the 21st century and going forward is that the citizen shall not have the freedom to move, nor the ability. In the case of the electric vehicle, it is a way to allow some people, some mobility, with the caveat that the range of travel is limited and that it would be difficult to simply drive a thousand miles without having any great impediments to achieve that goal. Because all of this isn’t just about freedom of movement. It’s about control of your movement and having a say about if you are able to travel, when you are able to travel and the mode of transportation you have available. If you are beginning to feel like the government is trying to remove your freedom of movement, you would be correct. Anyone who cares to see the future of EV mobility should Google the term “Geofencing”. It’s what I consider to be the ultimate form of transportation range control.

1 hour ago, Scottman said:

Anyone who cares to see the future of EV mobility should Google the term “Geofencing”. 

When I first came across that term some time ago, it was in the context of triggering speed limit alerts.

You don't need a great stretch of imagination to see that it can do much more.

I find all this stuff very creepy, if not distinctly scary. When we studied "1984" at school in the 1960s it seemed far distant in time and somewhat far-fetched in content. Now the actual year is long gone I can see how prescient George Orwell (Eric Blair) was.

There is no doubt that I already feel less "free" in terms of speech, thought and movement than I did 60 years ago!

1984 wasn’t a fictional novel. It was a documentary. From the look of things these days especially the changing of the meaning of words to be the exact opposite of what they originally meant. Freedom is Slavrey or truth is lying or men are women or people who are not legally in country are not breaking any laws! That last one is getting flipped back over as we sit here. Taxpayers should not have to subsidize the price of private vehicles. We are taxed enough over here already.

Reaction to the EV grant scheme still seems to be less than rapturous.

The Government seems to think that resistance to EVs is heavily influenced by purchase cost. To me, that's now an issue with any new car, due to the costs of meeting ever increasing legislation such as  Euro 7 emissions, ADAS, etc.

In many cases there is already price parity between an EV and ICE car of comparable specification/power. Many comparisons in the media are between e.g. the cheapest petrol Corsa and the cheapest EV version which is much more powerful.

I suspect the effect of the grants will simply be to allow manufacturers to discontinue or reduce their own discounts, and let the taxpayer pick up the tab.

Among our own group of friends/acquaintances, (assuming they could afford a new car - many can't) no one has actually cited purchase price as a reason for not going electric. Most still have concerns about range, charging time and cost of public chargers, many of which still don't accept contactless debit/credit cards, or are simply perfectly happy with their ICE cars and see no reason to change.

Further to my previous post, I found this to be  interesting. The significant point to me is that many of the cars mentioned are smaller models, such as the Puma Gen-E. The new Renault 5 seems to be doing well, too.

This seems to indicate that for many people an issue is not necessarily price, but that up until now the EVs on offer have been, for many people, simply the wrong type of car.

Many EVs have, up to now, been SUV/Crossover type vehicles which I for one wouldn't choose whatever powered them. Things like the R5 now on sale and VWs ID1 and 2 which are due next year, I would definitely at least consider if I was in in the market for a new car.

https://eciu.net/media/press-releases/2025/evs-ford-and-mini-among-manufacturers-driving-up-sales-in-2025

I am absolutely delighted that some of the tax I pay will be used to subsidise electric vehicles for people who can afford to pay more for a car than I can. 🙄