6 minutes ago, pcaouolte said:

I am absolutely delighted that some of the tax I pay will be used to subsidise electric vehicles for people who can afford to pay more for a car than I can. 🙄

Don't forget that as I believe, domestic heat pumps are also subsidised LOL

16 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I believe, domestic heat pumps are also subsidised

Brilliant, tax poorer people to subsidise things for richer people. 

7 hours ago, pcaouolte said:

Brilliant, tax poorer people to subsidise things for richer people. 

Nothing new, been going on long before EVs were a thing. 

48 minutes ago, iantt said:

Nothing new, been going on long before EVs were a thing. 

Yeah, bit like the Sheriff of Nottingham. Where's Robin Hood when you need him?😀

This! ^

Any Government with the power to tax the people shouldn’t be allowed to use the taxpayer dollars to manipulate markets with politically motivated ends. The people are not a social experiment. These politicians have many special interests that are influencing their actions and the public is forced to sign the checks.

On 8/11/2025 at 4:33 PM, pcaouolte said:

Brilliant, tax poorer people to subsidise things for richer people. 

Maybe the bigger picture is that richer people also pay more tax and subsidize things for poorer people. The idea that "less tax makes you richer" is only valid for the rich.

I've got a 10 plate focus, in the. Menu on the dash, the Esp has an X by it what does it mean 

52 minutes ago, Donald t said:

I've got a 10 plate focus

Post your question in the FOCUS forum.

The General Chat forum is ONLY for threads which DO NOT fit any other category. If your thread is anything do to with a specific model, it should go in the relevant model club section

I thought this was an interesting report by Charge UK on the cost challenges being faced by public charger operators: 

https://www.chargeuk.org/post/action-on-high-energy-costs-needed-to-keep-ev-transition-on-track

One point they mention, and would like the Government to address, is that if you can charge at home you pay 5% VAT, whereas at public chargers it's 20%, which always seemed a bit odd to me.

I suspect though, that it might backfire and Rachel might look to increase VAT on home charging to replace diminishing fuel duty. With smart meters and dedicated EV tariffs, this is probably quite feasible.

 

Increasing the tax burden to offset the “loss” of revenue from the artificial price increases imposed on the motor fuels tax is the trick that they pull! 
Same thing happened with tobacco taxes here in the states. The government has been making more money from cigarettes than the companies that make the cigarettes! Then, people quit smoking and the government starts to make the case that they are “losing money on cigarettes”. So then they go after chewing tobacco and now they’re going after the vape industry. Honestly, it just never ends.

Its so bad over here that the government can’t even make the argument that they need more money for charging stations! They gave out tens of billions and got almost nothing in the way of a charging station infrastructure. We are not even within reach of 20 percent coverage. It was all just a scam to get money to political donors paid for by the taxpayers.

 

This story about Mazda developing a fuel from algae has appeared in various places but this is Mazda's own version.

The challenge seems to be producing fuel on a large scale. Some way to go, as it seems it took 2 weeks to produce 1 litre of fuel from a 1,000 litre tank of algae.

Interesting, though.

 

https://www.mazda.com/en/mazda-mirai-base/articles/20251029-jms2025-mazda-vision-xcoupe/

 

On 8/11/2025 at 10:33 AM, pcaouolte said:

Brilliant, tax poorer people to subsidise things for richer people. 

And those people are paying for the privilege of having a less fit for purpose device than they had before at the lower cost! It’s heaping insult upon injury.

16 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

 

The challenge seems to be producing fuel on a large scale. Some way to go, as it seems it took 2 weeks to produce 1 litre of fuel from a 1,000 litre tank of algae.

I smiled when I saw that, but then I thought: Mazda are well respected engineering wise, why would they waste resources unless they thought there was something in it?

Also, I wondered how much land is taken by a solar farm per 1mW of electricity? A definitive answer seems hard to find, but most estimates seem to be in the 5-10 acre range.

One I know of relatively local to me is at Howden in East Yorkshire, where Ed Millipede has recently approved a 3,155 acre site on agricultural land which it is claimed will produce 400mW so 7.9 acres per mW.

It does illustrate the challenge of replacing coal with renewables. The old coal fired stations at Ferrybridge and Eggborough which I could see in the distance, were 2,000mW each. The still extant (and controversial) Drax has a capacity of 3960mW now burning imported biomass.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes from the Mazda project, or if (like so many apparently promising ideas) it vanishes without trace!😀

The issue of "road pricing" for EVs is in the news again. Most of the media has,a story basically similar to this one:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-15264513/Pay-mile-tax-explained-does-road-pricing-work-fair-EV-demand.html

The method suggested seems very convoluted - probably cost more in admin than it raises.

2 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

The method suggested seems very convoluted

Well we certainly have the right PM to come up with something 'convoluted' 🤣

What, not one single comment on EVs now being subject to a 3p/mile pay as you drive tax?? 😁

26 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

What, not one single comment on EVs now being subject to a 3p/mile pay as you drive tax?? 😁

Can't wait for it to be expanded to 'proper' cars! 🤣

We would be quids in, especially with the EcoSport! 

New tyre was fitted the next day 😉

29 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

EVs now being subject to a 3p/mile pay as you drive tax??

It's only an extra £234 per year tax for your average EV driver 🤣

11 minutes ago, unofix said:

It's only an extra £234 per year tax for your average EV driver 🤣

That works out at 7800 miles - can EVs go that far?? 😂

2 hours ago, unofix said:

It's only an extra £234 per year tax for your average EV driver 🤣

Bargain compared to the fuel duty tax paid by you lot. And fuel duty going up in sept. 

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

That works out at 7800 miles - can EVs go that far?? 😂

Mine must be an odd one. 51k so far. 

59 minutes ago, iantt said:

Bargain compared to the fuel duty tax paid by you lot. And fuel duty going up in sept. 

VAT was 10% when first introduced, tax ALWAYS goes up! I'm sure the 3p/mile won't last long...

16 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

VAT was 10% when first introduced

I don't know about NI, but in England when VAT replaced 'Purchase Tax' there were two levels of VAT. There was 5% for most goods and services and 8% for luxury items. Of course that didn't last long before the rates changed to 8% and 12½% and after that of course the sky was the limit as successive governments have for gotten how percentages work and feel the need to keep increasing it every few years.

Back in the days of the Harold Wilson government they thought it would be a fantastic idea to have the top earners pay 19 shillings in the pound income tax. This of course lead to the mass exodus from the UK of our top scientists, doctors, engineers, etc. So the government ended up getting 95% of .......... nothing 🤣

I'm looking forward to the 50% VAT rate, at least it will make calculating it very easy 😂   

 

43 minutes ago, unofix said:

I don't know about NI, but in England when VAT replaced 'Purchase Tax' there were two levels of VAT. There was 5% for most goods...

I thought it was 5% but on a Google search their incredibly inaccurate AI told me it was 10%!

8 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

AI told me it was 10%!

10% must be correct if AI says so. Us humans know nothing 🤣

It looks like I maybe wrong, but there is something still not quite right with the official version of events:

Under the Finance Act 1972, VAT then came into effect for the first time on 1st April 1973. Essential goods like food, fuel, and housing were exempt, but other goods and services were subject to a single rate charge of 10%.

VAT through the years

In 1974, when Labour returned to office, they reduced this standard rate to 8%, but introduced a higher rate for petrol at 25% as an energy conservation measure – which later also applied to non-essential luxury goods, but was halved in 1976.

Once Thatcher’s Conservative government took over in 1979, they abolished the higher rate and raised the standard rate to 15%. Between then and 1990, VAT revenue grew into an increasingly larger percentage of government revenue, outpacing income and wealth taxes.

Through the 1990s, the VAT rate was increased again to 17.5%, and the exemption for domestic fuel and power supplies was removed, making these liable at a reduced rate of 8%.

The next Labour government lowered this reduced rate to 5% in 1997, but after this – other than reclassifying some goods and services – no changes were made for over a decade.

11 years later in 2008, the Labour government cut the standard rate for the first time since 1974, lowering it to 15% in response to the financial crisis and recession.

In 2010, it returned to the previous rate of 17.5%, then was increased to 20% the following year by the coalition government in an attempt to reduce the fiscal deficit.

The standard VAT rate has remained at 20% since, though the Conservative government temporarily applied the reduced rate of 5% to businesses in tourism and hospitality as the economy struggled to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020.

Leaving the EU in 2020 has also led to some shifts in the way VAT is levied on cross-border trade and international transactions, giving the UK the opportunity to take more control over its VAT system.