The thing hat concerns me about the EV tax is that it will establish the government official right to track your cars mileage, and hence keep an eye on where you are driving, and record it.

Opens the door to a whole spying chapter on the motorist! (speed, location etc) The 3p/mile is only a starting point...

8 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

it will establish the government official right to track your cars mileage, and hence keep an eye on where you are driving, and record it.

Opens the door to a whole spying chapter on the motorist!

Yes, it's all about total control of the population by Heir Starmer. His sponsor Xi Jinping must be extremely proud of his adopted son.

I still can't work out how they will be able to bill people correctly for the mileage they cover, and does it apply to EV vans ?

1 hour ago, unofix said:

still can't work out how they will be able to bill people correctly for the mileage they cover, and does it apply to EV vans ?

From what I've seen - still looks like the self-reporting idea mentioned in my earlier post. So, you estimate your annual mileage, pay tax on that, if you do more you get a further bill, if less credit is  carried forward.

They now propose mileage will be checked (by e.g. an MoT test centre) annually in case you are telling fibs. I guess in practice it will be a dealer - assuming EVs need an annual service/safety check?

As they estimate the average will be around £250 based on about 8,300 miles pa, it would seem simpler to just charge EVs an extra £250 road tax. The method proposed looks to have the potential to cost as much as it raises and gives a new incentive for "mileage correction", as well as causing inconvenience for users and extra work for dealers for which they will obviously require a fee.

Not seen specific mention of vans, but it would probably work the same. It's Government though, so it might contain extra complications such as being multiplied by now many tools you have in the van, or depend on which newspaper you have on top of the dash?

 

 

14 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

From what I've seen - still looks like the self-reporting idea mentioned in my earlier post. So, you estimate your annual mileage, pay tax on that, if you do more you get a further bill, if less credit is  carried forward.

 

You'd wonder why they specifically stated a 3p/mile tax then rather than a simple 'EV' tax?

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

The thing hat concerns me about the EV tax is that it will establish the government official right to track your cars mileage, and hence keep an eye on where you are driving, and record it.

Opens the door to a whole spying chapter on the motorist! (speed, location etc) The 3p/mile is only a starting point...

Surely they track it anyway with the yearly MOT? 

The way I see it happening is, an added X amount to the price of a new EV to cover the first 3 years and then use the MOT mileage to work out how much you're due. 

7 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

You'd wonder why they specifically stated a 3p/mile tax then rather than a simple 'EV' tax?

You would. Or consider a tax based on weight, as mooted here:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-issues/car-tax-based-on-vehicle-weight-not-co2-emissions/

Interesting report on weight based tax below (if it works)

 

TE-UK_-Large-Vehicle-Levy_Briefing.pdf

....and so what happens when the EV changes ownership midway between mileage checks ?

Who pays what in a family who share a car, do they each have to keep a log of every single mile they do ?

Companies like Amazon and the Post Office who are saying look at how 'green we are' are going to have to pay hundreds of thousands in mileage tax.

This is yet another example of why the current government couldn't organise a P155 up in a brewery !!

1 hour ago, unofix said:

....and so what happens when the EV changes ownership midway between mileage checks ?

Who pays what in a family who share a car, do they each have to keep a log of every single mile they do ?

 

1. Seller takes a note of mileage and marks it on the V5?

2. It'll be up to the registered keeper to pay it, how they sort it out is up to them.

19 minutes ago, Turvey said:

1. Seller takes a note of mileage and marks it on the V5?

2. It'll be up to the registered keeper to pay it, how they sort it out is up to them.

They were just 2 of many problems I can see happening. Yes the mileage could be recorded on the V5 in the event of a sale, meaning that what was once purely optional will now be compulsory.

Major family fallouts over how much each driver should pay, potentially leading to the registered keeper saying only they can use the car. On the plus side that might mean the sales of EV's go up as family members each have to get their own transport.

If your EV gets stolen and is recovered with 500 miles more on it, will the thief have to pay the tax ? (provided they get caught) or will they just be given psychiatric help and told not to steal an EV 🤣

Given the tendency for EV's to suddenly burst in to flames and be burnt to a shell, how will they work out the mileage or is it just going  to be a guess ?

Then of course there will be a whole new industry spring up offering to adjust the mileage 🤣

There are dozens of problems just waiting to be discovered !!

17 minutes ago, unofix said:

 

Then of course there will be a whole new industry spring up offering to adjust the mileage 🤣

I must admit that was my initial thought! 😀

They should really add the tax at source to the fuel used, that would be fair and an accurate way of measurement. Oh, wait a minute... LOL

Vaguely on the subject of tax, I see EVs will be liable to the London congestion charge from 2 January: £13.50 for cars, £9.00 for vans I believe.

 

 

Strange goings-on in car manufacturing at the mo. I recall reading some time back that FIAT were trying to re-engineer the poorly selling 500 electric to take a combustion engine.

At the time I thought "good luck with that" but it seems they've managed it, very mild hybrid, even that rare thing nowadays, a manual box.

It seems the Abarth arm are looking In the same direction, as sales of the currently EV only 500e and 600e have not taken off.

In similar vein, the next generation Porsche Boxster/Cayman were to be EV only, though I think they intended to keep selling a limited range of the current one in parallel, for a while at least.

It seems though Porsche are now looking to copy FIAT and re-work what was to be the exclusively EV new platform to accommodate a petrol engine.

Renault also seem to be looking at hybrid or range extender powertrains for the next generation Scenic and Megane (currently EV only), to be sold alongside the electric option.

Tesla next?😀

33 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Tesla next?

Looking to make a wind-up clockwork version ? 🤣

2 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Vaguely on the subject of tax, I see EVs will be liable to the London congestion charge from 2 January: £13.50 for cars, £9.00 for vans I believe.

 

 

So they should be. It's a congestion charge. Not a ulez zone. 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-poised-reverse-ban-petrol-172843725.html

Miliband isolated as EU prepares to reverse petrol car ban

Ed Miliband has been left isolated over his net zero policies after the European Union (EU) dropped a flagship pledge to ban sales of new petrol cars.

Brussels was said to be preparing for a major climbdown on vehicle emissions rules amid a revolt by member states including Germany and Italy.

Manfred Weber, head of the European Parliament’s biggest grouping of MEPs, said a ban on petrol, diesel and hybrid cars scheduled for 2035 was now off the table indefinitely.

The dramatic reversal across the Channel will be seen as a fresh blow to Mr Miliband, the Energy Secretary, and Labour’s net zero policies that critics say risk damaging industry and driving up costs for households.

Ministers are now facing calls from the car industry to revisit Britain’s own plan to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 and hybrids from 2035.

Before these deadlines, car makers must also hit electric car sales targets under the so-called zero emission vehicle (ZEV) mandate.

On Thursday night, the Government insisted it remained committed to the policies. A review has been pencilled in for 2027.

But Claire Coutinho, the Conservative shadow energy secretary, said: “Rather than banning, taxing and forcing people into electric cars, the Government should get out of the way and back consumer choice.

“That’s why we have to repeal the net zero legislation, cut people’s electricity bills by 20pc with our Cheap Power Plan, and allow people to use that cheap electricity to buy the products they want to, when they want to.

“Forcing people to buy expensive technologies before they’re ready simply for the sake of meeting a net zero target just makes people poorer.”

Richard Tice, of Reform UK, said: “We should stop the internal combustion engine ban as part of scrapping net zero.

“This is the only way to save the UK automotive industry.”

A revised ZEV mandate that relaxed some of the requirements was unveiled by Sir Keir Starmer and Heidi Alexander, the Transport Secretary, in April following intense lobbying by the automotive industry.

Mr Miliband has been a vocal supporter of the EV rollout, arguing that it will create a “global opportunity” for domestic manufacturers, slash Britain’s carbon emissions and clean up the air in cities.

The EU’s ban would have required a 100pc fall in passenger vehicle carbon emissions by 2035 – effectively banning new petrol and diesel cars from sale, including hybrids.

However, Mr Weber, of the European Parliament, told German newspaper Bild that the requirement would now be reduced to a 90pc reduction and that a total ban had also been taken off the table.
 

Number 10,s reaction.

Credit order-order

Number 10 Still “Committed” to Petrol Car Ban Despite Brussels U-Turn

Number 10 has insisted it will not change course on its ban of all new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, even as its pals in Brussels prepare to reverse course after pressure from Germany and Italy. Miliband’s beloved EV mandate lives to fight another day, at least for now…

The Number 10 spokesman said today:

    “We have set out clearly our position on this for some time now, and made the case for it. We remain committed to the policy. Our electric car grant is making it cheaper than ever to choose an EV.”

Motor industry experts in the UK are already pushing back. Ex-Aston Martin chief Dr Andy Palmer told the Times this morning:

     “It becomes very difficult because if the EU drops their ban the factories there won’t ramp up their EV production in the way forecast. There wouldn’t be enough EVs to meet the demand required in the UK.”

Electric vehicle owners now face a pay-per-mile tax following the Winter Budget. This crusade looks increasingly ridiculous…

December 12 2025 @ 12:31

Scary thing is that when it goes t*ts up for Starmer, Millitwat is in line for PM! As for petrol cars being allowed again, I hate to say I told you so, but......

5 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

As for petrol cars being allowed again, I hate to say I told you so,

Oh I do love a good "I told you so"

I think we might get chance to say that a lot more in the next couple of years 🎉

13 hours ago, eddie eastwood said:

Miliband’s beloved EV mandate lives to fight another day, at least for now…

In fairness, the EV mandate was dreamed up by the previous administration, though Ed undoubtedly loves it. Bizarrely, he does seem to be very popular with Labour MPs. Having already had some very unsatisfactory contact with mine, though, this doesn't say much for them!

I shall persevere though, and if the EU do reverse their ban, I shall ask my MP how this squares up to the PMs "reset" plan to align more closely with them!😀

I see this story has surfaced again today (I'm sure I saw something similar a while back):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15416671/Death-rates-hybrids-three-times-leading-road-safety-experts.html

They don't make it too clear what they mean by "hybrid", but I'm assuming plug-ins which have a pretty sizeable traction battery plus a tankful of fuel, rather than full or mild hybrids.

I'll see if I can find the source and get some more detail.

I’m all for developing either series electric cars or mild hybrid vehicles. I just don’t want the taxpayer to subsidize it or the government to mandate them. We are where we are today because of that method of implementation! It’s a complete and utter disaster on multiple levels.

I am willing to go a few steps further and say that I think the industry, on both sides of the Atlantic should petition the governments to allow the manufacturers to work together on AT least two platforms and co develop the power trains. These little engines to either provide a source of electricity or to drive the wheels should be minimally encumbered with emissions devices, fuel injection? Yes. EGR and PCV? Yes. Catalyst? Yes. Think of mid 2000’s technology and that would be more than sufficient for clean operation and economical cost of operation and maintenance. Stop-Start? No. Stepper motors on the throttle body? No. I want the government to give the manufacturers a wide range of engineering options that would make these vehicles affordable and reliable. I’m not happy with Ford ending the Fiesta and Focus.  Normally I would be entering the new vehicle market in 2026. But that isn’t happening. I am looking to buy an older vehicle and restore it instead of buying something new that is quite frankly overpriced junk. I actually LIKE cars and driving as well as the whole ownership experience. But I feel that the new vehicle market is filled with garbage vehicles that are almost universally bad and unreliable.

21 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I see this story has surfaced again today (I'm sure I saw something similar a while back):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15416671/Death-rates-hybrids-three-times-leading-road-safety-experts.html

They don't make it too clear what they mean by "hybrid", but I'm assuming plug-ins which have a pretty sizeable traction battery plus a tankful of fuel, rather than full or mild hybrids.

I'll see if I can find the source and get some more detail.

At least there's acknowledgement of EVs being safer now. 

"with electric vehicles (EVs) found to be safest – causing just 23 fatalities last year despite making up nearly 2million of the cars on British roads."

 

6 minutes ago, iantt said:

At least there's acknowledgement of EVs being safer now. 

I haven't managed to find the source data for the Daily Mail article as yet, but there's quite a lot of other stuff from UK, US and Europe over the last few years which tell the same story and its pretty clear they're talking about PHEVs.

One of the issues seemed to be fire crews thinking they were just dealing with an ICE car, not spotting that there was a sizeable traction battery in there.

Interestingly, a lorry load of scrap batteries caught fire on the dual carriageway near where I live a few months back. I watched (from a safe distance!) but there seemed little the fire brigade could do and they just had to let it burn itself out and try and stop the derv catching light. I could only imagine what would happen with more volatile petrol.

I've never fancied the idea of a PHEV myself anyway, seems like the worst of two worlds, but wouldn't be put off an EV for fear of fire risk.