Energy chat, the future of car propulsion

[iantt]

We were saying the same thing today. We have driven down to Dorset which we could do without charging but when we arrived at cottage, parking the car was no where near the cottage so would be unable to charge to go out the next day. The services we stopped at on the way down had a few Tesla points with a few owners sat in there cars obviously waiting for charge to finish and a few non Tesla points. Could have charged a bit but all we wanted was a 10 min toilet break. 

So next day we wouldnt have been able to travel down to the seaside and back without searching for a charge point. Looked at seaside and there are a few some distance from the seafront. This is assuming the charging stations work, so you would need alternative back up locations if the one you want doesn't work. 

For work purposes I could manage with an electric car with a range of up to 150miles. But for traveling around the country on a hol with day trips out it wouldn't work for us until every holiday accommodation provides the ability to plug in overnight. 

[iantt]

Also the case that electric cars are cheaper to run ( not lifetime cost) depends on charging the car at home. Relying on rapid chargers while out and about doubles the cost to charge. I'm not knocking the electric car brigade as in some circumstances using an electric car would work. But at the moment they really are for the person with a healthy income or company car driver. I could never afford a new ice car let alone an electric one. Second hand market for electric vehicles with be a minefield in a few years. I'm fairly knowledgeable about certain electric and hybrid vehicles and big bills could easily occur for the owners  in the second hand market for various reasons . 

[unofix]

27 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I think Allegra Stratton is brilliant for speaking some common sense

I think you and I should start a "I told you so !!" thread so we can look back in years to come and say "I told you so" 🤣

[Eric Bloodaxe]

Just now, iantt said:

Also the case that electric cars are cheaper to run ( not lifetime cost)

 But at the moment they really are for the person with a healthy income or company car driver. 

I've seen a couple of studies quoted in the last couple of weeks. One suggested an EV would pay for itself in 4 years or so, the other said 10 or more - quite a difference! And again no one mentioned the elephant in the room - what replaces all the fuel duty that the Exchequer will be losing. Got to make it up somewhere, probably road charging in some form I guess.

No doubt if I'd still been on a company car scheme I'd be looking seriously at filling my boots with the tax benefits of an EV on a salary sacrifice scheme - you'd be daft not to in that position - but that doesn't make it right that normal taxpayers in effect are footing the bill. 

I do wonder about all the cars that will be coming off these schemes in 3 or 4 years time. No doubt some will argue that they will then be an affordable way for people to get into an EV, but I suspect EV  technology will advance quickly and they might not seem quite so desirable by then, particularly as it seems you already know stuff the EV brigade aren't telling us!😀

[unofix]

Just wondering if any normal person would buy a secondhand 3 year old petrol Fiesta knowing for sure that they will have to replace the engine in the next couple of years ?

[StephenFord]

9 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I do wonder about all the cars that will be coming off these schemes in 3 or 4 years time....

I still get the feeling we are still on the 'betamax' of EV car development. So, we still have the 'VCR' version, the 'CD' version, and the 'Download' version, then the 'streaming' version all to look forward to LOL

[iantt]

3 minutes ago, unofix said:

Just wondering if any normal person would buy a secondhand 3 year old petrol Fiesta knowing for sure that they will have to replace the engine in the next couple of years ?

Ref ecoboost owners😂😂😂

[unofix]

1 minute ago, iantt said:

ecoboost owner

mmmmm....... well I hadn't thought of them but yes! 🤣

I was more thinking of having to buy a whole new battery pack when the EV gets to 5 or 6 years old. Hence you can't give away the original Nissan Leaf

[iantt]

Just compared fuel costs of me going to work and back 5days a week and currently diesel costing £12.60. public charging an electric car £ 11.20. home charging car £5.60. ( not including cost of home charger) spread the cost of home charger over 3 years and then add another£3.20

So on a purely running cost there's not much of an incentive yet for me. Oh you  forget the car tax benefit of electric vehicle I hear you say😂😂. Ok save £20 there then. 

 

[StephenFord]

16 minutes ago, iantt said:

. home charging car £5.60. ( not including cost of home charger) spread the cost of home charger over 3 years and then add another£3.20

 

Many of us are lucky enough to have the potential option of home charging. My friend lives in a small apartment block, (8 x apartments) with only street parking. Like me, he's a petrolhead, he has no idea what will pan out for him to embrace EV.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

Just now, unofix said:

mmmmm....... well I hadn't thought of them but yes! 🤣

I was more thinking of having to buy a whole new battery pack when the EV gets to 5 or 6 years old. Hence you can't give away the original Nissan Leaf

Lol, yes, for a moment there I was thinking I'd have to find someone abnormal to buy mine when I decide to change. Mind you, with what we see on here about wet belts,etc.....!😀

[Eric Bloodaxe]

Just now, StephenFord said:

Many of us are lucky enough to have the potential option of home charging. My friend lives in a small apartment block, (8 x apartments) with only street parking. Like me, he's a petrolhead, he has no idea what will pan out for him to embrace EV.

Got a few friends who have downsized to apartments and have come to regret it. They do have parking, but I guess installing EV charging would require a contribution from all the block residents and they have enough of a problem getting them to fork out for normal repairs/maintenance etc. 

 

[Guy Heaton]

It's only pure ice that is banned.  Hybrids will be around for a long time.  I'm sure Allegro could afford a hybrid of some sort 

[StephenFord]

2 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

It's only pure ice that is banned.  Hybrids will be around for a long time. 

I believe hybrids will last 5 years longer, till 2035 before being banned.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

Just now, Guy Heaton said:

It's only pure ice that is banned.  Hybrids will be around for a long time. 

Only until 2035 (unless they've changed their minds again). There's still uncertainty as to what will be an acceptable hybrid - it has to manage a "substantial" electric only range but afaik they haven't defined that yet. Certainly seems only PHEVs will be allowed anyway.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

10 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I still get the feeling we are still on the 'betamax' of EV car development. So, we still have the 'VCR' version, the 'CD' version, and the 'Download' version, then the 'streaming' version all to look forward to LOL

I believe the earliest EVs actually predated ICE cars by some years, appearing in the mid 19th century. Apparently early examples suffered from poor range, slow charging, excessively heavy batteries, etc. Plus ca change..........😀

[Guy Heaton]

2035, that gives Toyota time to get another hydrogen fuelling station built.  Then we'll have two, woohoo.

[StephenFord]

Just seen a trailer for a show on Ch4, Monday night @ 9pm

"Guy Martin builds the world's fastest electric car!"

It's an old VW Beetle, and the car looks amazing. Of course, if Guy Martin were to do a show on how to scramble eggs, I'd watch it LOL

[StephenFord]

Just been made aware of a USA report that states that 18% of EV buyers returned back to 'gas', I'm shocked, thought it would have been much higher LOL

https://electrek.co/2021/04/29/study-why-some-electric-car-owners-gas-reasons-surprising/

 

[Guy Heaton]

I know what you mean.  People seem to drive much further in the US, they'll think nothing of driving 100 miles to a mall.  You'd think EV wouldn't suit them.

It would me but I wasnt ready to give up the ease of fuelling.  My ideal would be hydrogen readily available rather than speedier EV charging.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

5 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Just been made aware of a USA report that states that 18% of EV buyers returned back to 'gas', 

Interesting, but I can see why, as the reports suggest. It does seem that EVs so far, work better as a bigger, more expensive vehicle, that can more easily absorb the size, weight and cost of the battery etc, than a Fiat 500 or similar.

The Mrs (who loves small cars) and I were chatting about this earlier today. At the time I was trying (and failing miserably) to keep up with a Tesla Model 3 on the slip road of the A1(M). Gotta say those things do shift!

[Guy Heaton]

Teslas are fast yes, but a completely closed shop.  You cannot get even the simplest things on them looked at anywhere else but a main dealer.

[YOG]

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

............. The Mrs (who loves small cars) and I were chatting about this earlier today. At the time I was trying (and failing miserably) to keep up with a Tesla Model 3 on the slip road of the A1(M). Gotta say those things do shift!

 

[StephenFord]

15 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

Teslas are fast yes, but a completely closed shop.  You cannot get even the simplest things on them looked at anywhere else but a main dealer.

I'm guessing that the thriving 'tuning' industry in this country will eventually disappear too (apart from the guy with the laptop boosting the ECU even further!)

[Eric Bloodaxe]

23 minutes ago, YOG said:

 

I remember that from the show - pretty impressive.

It reminded me of the one thing which would most put me off the Tesla - it's not the looks (which I quite like) or that it's electric (which I guess we'll just have to live with). No, it's the dash with that giant touchscreen which I just can't do with!😀