With regards the Strainer within the sump. 

Back in the day there were products called Engine Flush. Yes you remember. What a superb product test was. Back then all my cars, except the UR Quattro, were BL cars. I serviced them myself. Oil changes at 5k miles with the use of an engine flush. Never did I have issues with any of those superb cars, not even rust coz I wax oiled my cars.

Over the past number of years I've seen warnings. Do Not Use Engine Flush. Why?  Not even a dealer could tell me, I smelt the BS coming from their mouths. 

I'm sure if an engine flush is use on the oil service of the 1.0 ecoboost then there'd be No Cambelt issues. That strainer would be cleaned with every oil service. 

1 hour ago, RayC333 said:

9 year old vehicle. The problem is, one doesn't know until it's too late. The pump strainer could finally block tomorrow with no warning to most motorists, as it did with my daughters example. 

Lol, I have been banging on about it to him for the last 2/3 years tbh. People do seem to cling to this 10 year recommendation as if it's a 100% guarantee.

I guess it's the cost - up to £1800 in one hit seems a lot. Yet I know my friend has had his "normal" cambelt changed in other cars - perhaps 2 or 3 times during his ownership - without demur.

48 minutes ago, tazzman600 said:

I'm sure if an engine flush is use on the oil service of the 1.0 ecoboost then there'd be No Cambelt issues. That strainer would be cleaned with every oil service. 

Interestingly........

https://www.forteuk.co.uk/news/forte-technical-tips-wet-belt-systems-tbio/

 

I've asked Ford CRC for any comments, I'll see what they say.

55 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I've asked Ford CRC for any comments, I'll see what they say.

As useless as ever:

"Good Afternoon

Your local Ford Dealer’s Service department would be best equipped to assist you with this matter. You can find the contact details for your local branch, using our Dealer locator function here: http://www.ford.co.uk/SBE/DealerLocator."

 

 

The detergent in engine flush accelerates degradation of the wetbelt.  External cambelts on older engines wouldn't get contaminated with it so never an issue on those.

That Forte link is interesting.  It even highlights the acidity of contaminated oil degrading the wetbelt.  I would be interested to know how the new formula works if it doesn't contain a strong detergent.

3 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

That Forte link is interesting.  It even highlights the acidity of contaminated oil degrading the wetbelt.  I would be interested to know how the new formula works if it doesn't contain a strong detergent.

It is. They seem well aware of the issues and even recommend earlier belt changes for cars doing low mileage/short journeys. 

The manufacturer of the flush is of course going to extol it's virtues, and we're unlikely to get much sense from Ford, so it would be good to find some unbiased comment/analysis. You would think someone, somewhere will have put it to the test. Crank up the search engine!😀

I did suggest a proper scientific test a few years ago.  Buy a new wetbelt and cut into smallish sections.  Put each section in a sealed jar with different things.  One just the proper oil, one with wrong spec oil, one with engine flush, one with water, etc.  Shake the jars once a week and see which one degrades the belt quickest.  Sadly I don't have the space or I'd have done it myself.

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Sadly I don't have the space or I'd have done it myself.

What we need is a member with a big chemistry set!

My interest being aroused, I have just emailed Forte's contact address, explained the non-response  from Ford, and asked if they are able to comment on whether the product has any form of manufacturer approval. We'll see if they do any better!😀

Very interesting link to Forte. I used there products from almost day 1 of their introduction to the UK. 

The highlighted issue of low mileage cars. That's the Biggest problem. Folk who drive just 5 or so miles one way and back. Their car will need an oil service every 3k miles. A sales rep car which does 1k miles a week won't need as much of an oil service by comparison. 

The sooner potential owners learn that the better. Low mileage 'drivers' need an alternative to an ICE car. 

An Italian tune has been mocked so many times But fact is they Work. Damn good fun too 😁

Two years ago I decided to put our Mk3 Ecoboost estate into our local indie garage for the first time. They used Forte flush and when I queried it, having read the horror stories on here, they claimed the flush was compatible with wetbelts. I've always found them very good and reliable in the past but I wasn't totally convinced. It wasn't vitally important because the car was due a belt change anyway at 10 years old. However in the end I decided to get rid and put the £1800 or so it would have cost towards a newer vehicle. Apart from the belt there were a number of other niggling issues that had accumulated. It had the common problem with the aircon rapidly losing gas and after needing a broken front spring to be changed the strut bearing had developed a creak. The new discs I had fitted just before the pandemic became very corroded whilst it was laid up during the lockdowns and they hadn't cleaned with use so looked like needing to be replaced again with minimal mileage on them. I liked the car and it had done us well but I got to the point where I didn't want to throw any more money at it. There was the additional minor problem that Her Indoors and I were finding it a bit low to get in and out of. We ended up with the Vitara which I've been very pleased with.

We're hanging on to the Mk2.5, though. It's got the Mazda-based engine with chain cam. A much simpler drivetrain with no turbo to cause problems. No DPF or GPF and none of the annoying "driver aids" that festoon modern cars. It does abot 2000 miles per year and gets an oil service every year at the indie, with engine flush. It's done just under 58,000 miles and doesn't use any oil between services so looks like the piston rings are still in good shape.

Just came across this link to Forte New Gen Flush from 2016 - I got the impression earlier it was something new. Would have thought we might have seen something more about it in 8 years.

https://garagewire.co.uk/news/new-flush-protects-timing-belt-in-oil-systems/

 

 

10 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Forte New Gen Flush from 2016

Sounds like a Grand Idea, what could possibly go wrong ? 🤔

I love the car, we were lucky and got a titanium X Sat NAV model that has all the bells and whistles only a year old with only 6k miles on it. Main dealer, one previous owner, 2 years old at the time. The car was spotless.

Given this, I'd rather run it till it dies, maintaining sensibly where I can. If I have to spend £2k to do that, it's still cheaper than changing cars, but the question is what else could go soon on a ten year old car? - looks perfect outside and in cabin, but who knows what components are on the way out. It's never been garaged.

We paid £10k for it in 2016, so it's been good value as it has only cost an annual service (one interim, all the rest full) and a few tyres and brake pads.

I guess it's time to bite the bullet and hope for the best.

If anyone knows, are there any other accompanying components that need to be changed at same time? I see mentions of oil pump and strainer as these are parts that can be contaminated by the seatbelt breaking up.

46 minutes ago, KatieBMAX said:

but the question is what else could go soon on a ten year old car?

The list is almost endless, but is probably shorter than the list of what could go wrong with a new car !!

1 hour ago, KatieBMAX said:

If anyone knows, are there any other accompanying components that need to be changed at same time? I see mentions of oil pump and strainer as these are parts that can be contaminated by the seatbelt breaking up.

I would recommend inspection of the turbocharger filter, replacement of the oil pump belt and inspection of the oil pump strainer for debris. This will of course add cost, but are associated with wet belt issues and are best accessed at the time of the Cambelt (main wetbelt) change.

If the turbocharger filter can't be effectively cleaned, or is damaged during removal or cleaning, they are relatively cheap to replace as is the oil pump belt. Oil pump strainers can be cleaned if necessary (takes time and diligence to do it properly). Some garages will prefer to replace the whole pump (expensive).

1 hour ago, KatieBMAX said:

Given this, I'd rather run it till it dies, maintaining sensibly where I can. If I have to spend £2k to do that, it's still cheaper than changing cars, but the question is what else could go soon on a ten year old car? - looks perfect outside and in cabin, but who knows what components are on the way out. It's never been garaged.

Not being garaged in Greater London is probably ok.  I used to live on the coast, where it's surprising how quickly the salty sea air causes everything to rust.  Since moving just a few miles inland, I've noticed much less corrosion.

The other expensive jobs that I'd be semi-expecting on the 1.0 EcoBoost from 10 years old would be the clutch & the cat converter.  Cheaper jobs would be suspension springs and bushes.  The biggest job is the wetbelts, but of course the smaller jobs can add up over time.

3 hours ago, KatieBMAX said:

it's still cheaper than changing cars, but the question is what else could go soon on a ten year old car? 

Certainly is - nearest equivalent to a B-Max I could think.of now is a Honda Jazz - £26k+ these days.

We're in a similar position with my wife's car (Seat Mii version of the VW Up) which was under £8k pre reg with 6 miles on the clock 10 years ago.

Nothing major to date, now coming up to its second (conventional) cambelt change. I'm expecting it to need, before too long, tyres, battery, exhaust (all still original) and possibly clutch which has developed a mysterious squeak! Only unscheduled replacement to date has been a DRL bulb.

The traditional killer of cars this age as Tom mentions above, was rust, but unlike her previous Mk 1 Ford Ka, this has not been an issue. 

As already said, by this time almost anything can happen, but there again over the years I've found that with new cars too!

On 7/27/2024 at 10:36 AM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

To be fair, quite a few members have posted about their good long term experience - I have a couple of friends in that position and have posted about it elsewhere on here.

It's true, though, that the typical post is either from someone who has already had a disaster or has recently bought a car and then been told of the "ecoboom" issue. It's a shame that more people don't do more research before they buy.

I don't recall seeing many issues from people who have owned their cars from new, and have had them scrupulously maintained - the typical picture is a car bought used where it's difficult to 100% verify the service history.

I was having a conversation with one of my Ecoboost owning friends only the other day. His wife's Fiesta is now 9 years old, has been owned from new, and correctly maintained and serviced and is in good general condition.

He's basically got 3 choices:

a) Play "cambelt roulette" and see how long it lasts (not recommended, obviously!)

b) Get the belt and any other work done and keep the car several more years

c) Sell the car "as is" and be prepared to take a price reduction on account of the cambelt change being due.

I recommended getting the work done and keeping the car, making similar points to yours:

- it's in good condition otherwise and is a known quantity

- swapping for a newer used car could simply buy someone else's problems

- swapping for a new car (even if they could find a reasonably priced equivalent) would still be very expensive given how prices have rocketed in the last few years.

Picked up mine this morning after having belts etc done,

60 K mikes on clock.

Mechanic said oil was good ,no gunk as belt was ok,and would have got another year out of it no sweat,

But there were signs on belt that it was degrading,

Tbh I'm glad I paid for it to be done as my son will keep it for 6 years approx, whilst he finishes college ( masters etc)

Peace of mind as long as he services regularly with proper oil etc,

 

On 7/27/2024 at 2:51 PM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

What we need is a member with a big chemistry set!

My interest being aroused, I have just emailed Forte's contact address, explained the non-response  from Ford, and asked if they are able to comment on whether the product has any form of manufacturer approval. We'll see if they do any better!😀

Well, the answer so far is "no", not even an auto-acknowledgement. Even Ford managed a reply of sorts, rubbish though it was!

41 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Well, the answer so far is "no", not even an auto-acknowledgement. Even Ford managed a reply of sorts, rubbish though it was!

I guess customer service isn't their forte! 🤭

On 7/27/2024 at 11:20 AM, Guest said:

With regards the Strainer within the sump. 

Back in the day there were products called Engine Flush. Yes you remember. What a superb product test was. Back then all my cars, except the UR Quattro, were BL cars. I serviced them myself. Oil changes at 5k miles with the use of an engine flush. Never did I have issues with any of those superb cars, not even rust coz I wax oiled my cars.

Over the past number of years I've seen warnings. Do Not Use Engine Flush. Why?  Not even a dealer could tell me, I smelt the BS coming from their mouths. 

I'm sure if an engine flush is use on the oil service of the 1.0 ecoboost then there'd be No Cambelt issues. That strainer would be cleaned with every oil service. 

😬

PLEASE!

DO NOT advise anyone to use engine flush with a wet belt engine

Hi all,

I'm looking at getting the timing belt on my Focus 1.0 ecoboost done in the winter. What I'm wondering though, is there any benefit to taking it to the local Ford dealer to have it done instead of my usual garage? Are Ford likely to charge a complete fortune with the work not necessarily being done any better?

My local garage have always done everything on the car fine and have said they only do timing belts on cars they've been servicing for a while. But I'm slightly apprehensive about letting them lose on what sounds like the most complex job the car is ever going to need.

Any advice is most welcome.

Thanks

4 hours ago, MattJB said:

Are Ford likely to charge a complete fortune with the work not necessarily being done any better?

I suppose the simple answer to that is "it depends". My usual Ford dealer is family owned and operated very much like a traditional local garage - they've always been pretty good so I keep using them. 

My wife's car is a VW group model and I have found the local VW group main dealers to, as you say, charge a fortune and get things wrong, so I use our local garage in that case, though it helps that all the guys there seem to own VW group cars themselves!

I'd be inclined to get a quote from both and ask your local a few pertinent questions on points as mentioned earlier in this thread, about the job, such as: have they done an ecoboost before, have they got the kit, would they change the oil pump belt, clean out the oil strainer, possibly change the oil pump etc. 

Don't know where you are in Perthshire - its a pretty big area - have you any choice of Ford dealers, is their reputation good or bad, do you know anyone who's had the job done locally from whom you could get any useful feedback?

 

Get it done ASAP ,Ford will rip u off

Thanks very much for the replies.

I'll give the local garage a ring and ask about the things you've mentioned. The Ford dealer is in Perth itself and gets mixed reviews (don't they all). The worst I could do is ring them and ask for a quote (I did do this earlier in the year and they never phoned back, so not a great start).

Thanks again.