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Defeated


Keith13661
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Well I have only had my MK8 fiesta active 1.0 ecoboost for around 6 months, it’s a 2019 model with 21k covered. 
The car is fantastic, comfortable, refined, and a pleasure to drive…. But !
 

The Brakes 🤔 I have had major headaches with the brakes, I simply cannot get away with how sharp they are, and how unpredictable that sharpness can be. The brakes are working how they should, ( or at least no mechanical issues found, discs and pads fine. ) 
 

Now I am 61 years old and been driving for over 40 of those years, I hold a professional licence and have driven all sorts of vehicles, but sadly I simply can’t seem to settle into this fantastic little car. 
 

Anyway to cut a long story short, I am putting it back into Ford and instead I am going to take ownership of a 2019 Focus Vignale 

The one saving grace is that in todays market for second hand cars my Fiesta had a good bit of positive equity in it for a descent part exchange deal. 
 

Looking forward to the next chapter

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I have the same problem with my Ecosport, it's the first car I have had with electric power assisted brkes. They are not as smooth as the old Vaccuum brakes.

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2 hours ago, billyboy said:

I have the same problem with my Ecosport, it's the first car I have had with electric power assisted brkes. They are not as smooth as the old Vaccuum brakes.

Afaik they're normal vacuum servo. Are you thinking of the power steering?

 

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Going back to Keith's original post, there have been a few comments on the brakes of the Mk 8 and it also took me a while to get used to them.

It seems to be a characteristic of most modern cars, though. Changes to friction materials since asbestos was phased out and ever more intrusive safety systems all contribute to that "on or off" feeling. Regen braking on various types of EV or hybrid also comes into the mix.

Memory is a strange thing though. I remember being able to just rest your foot on the pedal with nothing happening (now you come to a sudden halt) and then press progressively for increased braking force, all nicely controlled.

Or perhaps it's just looking back through rose tinted spectacles. I suspect if I drove some of the cars from 50 years ago now, I'd be appalled at how ineffective the brakes are!

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About 10 years ago I drove a couple of 1960s cars and the brakes were terrible. I think by modern standards they all were. I have three 1970s motorbikes with drum brakes, they are terrible.  I have a 2015 fiesta, had if for 6 years and I still find the brakes are too sudden. Mainly if moving slowly in traffic and you just need to touch the brakes slightly. It’s really hard to not do a sudden stop. My previous 2007 fiesta I always thought the brakes felt poor. I had a 2001 focus on which I always thought the brakes were exactly right.

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7 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Memory is a strange thing though. I remember being able to just rest your foot on the pedal with nothing happening (now you come to a sudden halt) and then press progressively for increased braking force, all nicely controlled.

Or perhaps it's just looking back through rose tinted spectacles. I suspect if I drove some of the cars from 50 years ago now, I'd be appalled at how ineffective the brakes are!

50 years ago maybe brakes were all poor, but many/most standard modern cars are over-servoed; it's that simple.

Decent 80s and 90s cars had excellent brakes (with some model exceptions of course) but they were exactly as you say - progressive and modulated by the driver, who therefore needed to be awake.  Like everything else today, car brakes are 'dumbed-down' so that even the most careless drivers can stop quickly.

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I've had a Fiesta 2019 ST-Line X 140 for the past 3 years, and before that had a 2016 version of the Mk7.5.

I think the brakes are absolutely fine on my car and have no problems with progressive braking.

I've had cars from the late 1970's (Cortinas) and 80's (Sierras, Golf GTi) 90's (Toyota MR2) and a few others .

Certainly brakes on modern cars have become a bit over servoed but I've not found any yet that I would call sharp or unpredicatable. It might take me a week or so to dial myself in to a new cars brake behaviour but on the whole I'd say in the cars I've driven, I'd take todays brakes over any that I've had before.

You aren't driving in your hobnailed boots are you? 😁

 

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I find this strange.   I've had five Fiestas and never had a problem with the brakes.

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11 hours ago, Bobr said:

I find this strange.   I've had five Fiestas and never had a problem with the brakes.

Neither did I with the earlier versions, Bob. I got used to it fairly quickly as I mentioned earlier, but the Mk 8 does seem more sensitive - possibly individual cars vary.

It did occur to me that I don't actually need to brake that often in this car. No, I don't go crashing into people or drive particularly slowly but with good anticipation and the level of grip available, there's very little need to use the brakes at legal speeds on the out of town roads I normally use. And little-used brakes can be a little "grabby".

 

 

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22 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Afaik they're normal vacuum servo. Are you thinking of the power steering?

 

You are right, I stand corrected.

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10 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

It did occur to me that I don't actually need to brake that often in this car. No, I don't go crashing into people or drive particularly slowly but with good anticipation and the level of grip available, there's very little need to use the brakes at legal speeds on the out of town roads I normally use. And little-used brakes can be a little "grabby".

Well that might be a possibility but I'm very light on the brakes. As you say with good anticipation you hardly ever need to use them.

My car has done 55,000 miles now and at the last service 3 weeks ago they quoted front pads at 10% wear (not entirely conviced they are measuring them though). I've never had to change a set of pads on any of my cars apart from when I hooned around a bit in my 1983 MKI Golf Gti when I was a young hooligan 🙂 .  But based on my current wear rate my engine would be dead well before I needed any pads.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Blatto said:

But based on my current wear rate my engine would be dead well before I needed any pads.

As we're talking Ecoboosts, I'm sure @unofix will be along shortly to remind us that's a distinct possibility!😀 But yeah, I'm the same, can't remember when I last had some pads.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

It did occur to me that I don't actually need to brake that often in this car. No, I don't go crashing into people or drive particularly slowly but with good anticipation and the level of grip available, there's very little need to use the brakes at legal speeds on the out of town roads I normally use. And little-used brakes can be a little "grabby".

 

 

Everyone is different with their use of the brakes. In my police days, we found that police cars were usually very good on brakes.   The 2.9 litre Granada Scorpio 4x4 that I had only had 2 sets of brake pads in 175,000 miles.

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I have never had a problem with my brakes on my fiesta interns of too much performance, the issue I have had with mine is it tends to warp the disks

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Some vehicles can seem over servo'd, if that's right, regarding the brakes.

At work we've got 2 little 7.5T Daf trucks, they've got nigh on identical registration numbers.  One of them I find the brakes fine, the other the brakes feel more like you've stood on them when pressing the pedal.

I'm not a heavy braker, so a set of discs and pads on the cars I've owned can last a few years, but, I don't do a massive amount of miles per year.  I've only done 3K miles this year since my Fiesta was tested at the start of January.

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On 10/11/2022 at 5:43 PM, Neb_engineer said:

I have never had a problem with my brakes on my fiesta interns of too much performance, the issue I have had with mine is it tends to warp the disks

It is not possible to warp discs.  What you are doing is depositing large and uneven amounts of pad material onto the discs.  Either because you sit with the pedal pressed when stationary and the discs are hot, or you don't bed in the pads/discs properly.

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2 hours ago, orangecurry said:

It is not possible to warp discs.

That's a very intresting statement. 🤔

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Thanks. If you really are interested, there's plenty of facts out there for you and Papamack to absorb.

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3 hours ago, orangecurry said:

It is not possible to warp discs. 

Believe me it is possible.

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It's not a question of either of us believing each other.  It's a fact.  There are thousands of mechanics who say 'ooooh your discs are warped, you'll need new ones' and the problem of judder/vibration is fixed.  Doesn't mean the disc was warped.  It's science.  It's not possible.

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Here you go - here's a nice gentle way of introducing you to the info

Do we agree that Alcon understand brakes?  But they also quote Carroll Smith, which is where I learned about the subject many years ago.

Enjoy!

https://alconkits.com/support/brake-pad-info/110-the-real-truth-about-warped-brake-rotors

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Just to confirm folks, I have driven many vehicles over the years. I am a professional driver who has passed extended tests, I have driven vehicles with all kinds of defective brakes but this was different, all investigations show that there was no mechanical fault, all components appear to be operating within their parameters. However at the end of the day it was as if the pressure been applied to the foot rake was sudden and aggressive, when in fact it was not…. Several people drove the vehicle several people commented on not been able to get the ‘feel’ of the pedal.

 

Anyway the problem is no longer relevant as today I collected my new ‘used’ 2019 Ford Focus Vignale and covered around 130 miles on the way home…. With perfect brakes may I add. 
 

thanks for the input. 

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Must have had a rogue one, I can't really find any fault with the brakes on my 2019 ST-Line Fiesta.

Hope you get to enjoy the Focus Vignale for many more miles. 🤞

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/16/2022 at 6:43 PM, Blatto said:

Must have had a rogue one, I can't really find any fault with the brakes on my 2019 ST-Line Fiesta.

Hope you get to enjoy the Focus Vignale for many more miles. 🤞

Possibly was a rogue one, have to say we have just spent a week in Durness Scotalnd, drove up from Tyneside, what a great car.... so comfortable and performed better than I could have expected

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On 10/31/2022 at 8:35 PM, Keith13661 said:

Possibly was a rogue one, have to say we have just spent a week in Durness Scotalnd, drove up from Tyneside, what a great car.... so comfortable and performed better than I could have expected

Pleased you're enjoying the new car. 👍

I could be way off, but, your profile picture was taken in Harlow Green area, I think? 😕

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