1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

 At last, something cheap!! 😀

no good without the ups though 😄 

The other thing to consider is if your local exchange and mobile phone mast could well be down at the same time.

16 minutes ago, KenM said:

The other thing to consider is if your local exchange and mobile phone mast could well be down at the same time.

Indeed, and Mr Biden might hit the red button thinking he was summoning a mug of cocoa 🤣

This should give the performance graphs for apc units you will probably notice the graphs are not linear.

https://www.apc.com/uk/en/tools/ups_selector/home/entry

9 minutes ago, KenM said:

This should give the performance graphs for apc units you will probably notice the graphs are not linear.

https://www.apc.com/uk/en/tools/ups_selector/home/entry

Now that link threw up something interesting. On inputting, 15w, it throws an error saying it's too small. Does that mean that if I only have a router connected, and there is a power outage, the UPS won't even kick in?

9 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Now that link threw up something interesting. On inputting, 15w, it throws an error saying it's too small. Does that mean that if I only have a router connected, and there is a power outage, the UPS won't even kick in?

I think it’s just that they haven’t calculated that low. It’s diminishing gains as the lower the power load the less of a difference it makes as the efficiency losses and UPS own draw takes a bigger portion of the runtime. 
 

Made up example. But a UPS providing 20W power may last 2 hrs. But even if nothing was connected it would only last 2.5 hrs because of its own power draw and inverter losses. 

Have had very small loads on larger units and the have always worked ok.

17 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I am about to be switched over to 'fiber' broadband against my will. I don't get a mobile signal at home, so bottom line is, that during a power outage, when my router goes down, I will be without any means of communication in an emergency.

I am after a UPS which will last about 6 hours, simply powering a broadband router/& cordless phone which I believe both together rated at about 15w, so not power hungry.

I have never used/bought one before and am just after some advice on what to get. It must be 'plug&play', just plug the router/phone straight in and looped into the UPS. Have tried a 'google' but am overwhelmed at the choice of equipment you can get.

I presume the problem is that you're being forced onto digital voice so you're loosing your old analogue landline?

A satellite phone could be another alternative, though I've no idea of the costs. I've actually heard recently of experimental satellite comms support being added to smartphones, so maybe in future you could have a smartphone with this built-in.

Regarding UPSs, as mentioned above, these aren't the most efficient of devices and efficiency gets worse the smaller the load you place on them (link). You've not just got to factor in the cost of purchase, and eventual replacement, but also of running costs (plus consider the damage to the environment having one running all the time for extremely little use). Note though that some devices may apparently have an 'eco' mode whereby they will just pass the electricity straight through, bypassing the UPS stuff, and you could just switch it on fully when there's a storm. When picking one you may also have to wrestle with the concept of real vs apparent power ratings.

A UPS that you just plug your 3-prong-plug devices into instead of the wall socket, while easy to use conceptually, has to supply about 230V of output, as expected by device power bricks, just like the wall socket. A good use case for such a UPS is to help prevent data loss on a computer, giving opportunity to save and then shut down. In your power cut scenario you don't need an alternate power supply to immediately kick in to prevent data loss, you just need an alternate source of power to temporarily get the router running so that you can call/message someone briefly. Connecting up a battery directly to a device, bypassing the device's power brick, I expect could be a much more efficient, economical, and environmentally friendly solution, especially if you only make use of it when there's an actual power cut.

Looking at the power brick of an old router I have to hand, the specs are as follows, input (from mains): 100-240V AC 50/60Hz 0.5A; output (to device): 9V DC 0.6A. The router itself states 9V DC 0.6A, max consumption 4.9 watts. So in theory if I had a battery that could output 0.6A @ 9V for a suitable length of time, and if I had a suitable cord/plug for connecting it to the router, then I could power the router off of the battery pack. If you need to power multiple devices (the router, the phone if it's a fancy one, ONT if on full fibre) then you could perhaps use multiple battery packs or some Y-splitters on the power cord. Regarding the cord, you can cheaply get adapter kits with various sizes/shapes of connectors.

The battery pack wouldn't have to be some fancy lithium based solution (which may have more power but can be prone to catching fire), it could just be a bunch of standard AA/AAA batteries connected together to give enough voltage - a single AA battery might give 2600mAh @ 1.5V, so 6 of them together in series would make 9V and could give 2.6A of continuos draw for 1 hour, or a larger draw for a shorter period, or smaller draw for longer. You can get cheap 6xAA 9v holders to put them in and with which to connect them together suitably. If the device took 12V of input rather than 9 then you could use 8xAA batteries, or you could even hook up your 12V car battery in theory, and this could also perhaps work for a 9V device if 12V is within its tolerance limits. Hauling your 12v car battery into the house, or keeping a spare in the house, might of course be too much to ask, but note that you can actually get small versions of them, like this one (approx only 15x9x6cm), which for £20 can deliver 7A continuously for 1 hour (at 12V) which may be more than enough for your needs. Or perhaps you could get a couple of 6V 9000mAh 4R25 batteries and hook them together in series for 12V.

Here's an example of someone who tried a home-made battery solution using a 12V 8300mAh lithium-ion battery pack, plus some Y-splitter cables to power multiple devices. The battery pack in this case happens to be hooked up to the mains and is part of a permanent supply setup. But again, you don't need to do it that way, check your power requirements, get suitable ordinary batteries as above, one of those cheap holders if AA/AAA, and a cheap power plug kit with a wire, and you can easily hook up enough juice to use your devices for a short while.

You say you only need about 15W to power the router and cordless phone. You'd also need to include the ONT if on full fibre, but let's put that possibility to one side. If these are both 12V devices, then that's 1.25A, and a pack of 8xAA 2600mAh batteries (in series) could power them for approximately 2 hours of continuous use. That 7Ah (7000mAh) miniature 12V car battery could do so for about 5.6 hours of continuos use. If they are 9V devices then that's 1.7A, and a pack of 6xAA 2600mAh batteries (in series) could power them continuously for about 1.5 hours. (If my calculations are correct). For longer use you could either swap out the batteries with fresh ones once they're flat, or hook up more than one set in parallel for multiples of these time frames.

---

Note though that telecom companies I believe are required by Ofcom to ensure that people can get access to emergency services during power cuts. If you're classed as vulnerable and don't have a mobile or mobile signal to use instead of a landline, then they are supposed to supply an alternative solution, i.e. give you a free battery backup system.

---

Another thought that popped into my head, if you had solar panel installation with a battery, then that could power things in the house temporarily during a power cut, though these things don't tend to be cheap to install.

5 hours ago, rd457 said:

I presume the problem is that you're being forced onto digital voice so you're loosing your old analogue landline?

Yes - my brain hurts now after reading all that. It's all way above my head 😂

5 hours ago, rd457 said:

Note though that telecom companies I believe are required by Ofcom to ensure that people can get access to emergency services during power cuts. If you're classed as vulnerable and don't have a mobile or mobile signal to use instead of a landline, then they are supposed to supply an alternative solution, i.e. give you a free battery backup system.

Sky have told me that apparently they are still looking at such systems. No good to me as my copper exchange is shutting down next month. As a concession, they'd allow me to leave my contract at no 'termination' charge if I went to another supplier! I predicted all this over 4 years ago when compulsory fiber conversion was announced with full government approval - the whole thing is a b*llox...(Kinda like compulsory EV conversion, once government gets involved, the whole thing goes t*ts up)

Openreach used to provide vulnerable customers battery backed modules designed for about 1hr without power on FTTP, but they've now shifted this responsibility to ISPs.

If you ask around some other providers, you should find one that offers it.

41 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

Openreach used to provide vulnerable customers battery backed modules designed for about 1hr without power on FTTP, but they've now shifted this responsibility to ISPs.

If you ask around some other providers, you should find one that offers it.

I have checked with Sky again today, they are adamant they don't supply any UPS facility, I even mentioned to them that OffCom advised it was their responsibility. However, I just called Fibrus, and because I live in an area of 'limited' mobile coverage, they supply a UPS FREE! (They suggest their UPS should easily last 6 hours?)

I'm disgusted with Sky, have been with them 30+ years - they can go & stuff themselves....

1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

I have checked with Sky again today, they are adamant they don't supply any UPS facility, I even mentioned to them that OffCom advised it was their responsibility. However, I just called Fibrus, and because I live in an area of 'limited' mobile coverage, they supply a UPS FREE! (They suggest their UPS should easily last 6 hours?)

I'm disgusted with Sky, have been with them 30+ years - they can go & stuff themselves....

A UPS built for that purpose of low power devices can probably run longer than the normal retail ones designed to keep computers and high loads running. Because it will be optimised for low self draw, but at the same time can't power much else.

22 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

A UPS built for that purpose of low power devices can probably run longer than the normal retail ones designed to keep computers and high loads running. Because it will be optimised for low self draw, but at the same time can't power much else.

That's what I want...

I have now submitted a complaint to OfCom. Because I am a vulnerable customer, OfCom will send a priority 'complaint' today to Sky in which they'll have 5 days to respond. I'll post back here any future news...

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

... I'll post back here any future news...

Crikey, that was quick! Just got a phone call from Sky saying they were in receipt of my OfCom complaint (made 2 hours ago), and would be in touch with me within 48 hours to see if they can get a battery backup pack installed for me! Must admit, pretty impressed with OfCom

Considering this thread, I thought this article might be worth sharing.

Even if you can keep your side powered for more than an hour, there is no guarantee what you are connected to will be up for that long:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/08/uk-broadband-and-mobile-providers-balk-at-ofcoms-call-for-battery-backup.html

1 hour ago, alexp999 said:

Even if you can keep your side powered for more than an hour, there is no guarantee what you are connected to will be up for that long:

I entirely agree. But the only control I have personally is what I have in my house, hence the quest for a USP. In my whole life, this issue hasn't been a problem, as during the frequent power outages I have, I've always had access to a proper landline phone, so at the very least, I was able to call my electricity supplier who in all occasions can tell me they're at least aware of the issue, and often could let me know an estimated time of restoration of power.

In addition, because it wasn't 'digital', I always had access to emergency services if I ever needed them (which I did once during a power outage).

This mad rush towards 'digital' has totally negated all common sense in what 'progress' really means. Without electricity, digital simply doesn't work.

The global IT outage only a couple of weeks ago should have been a warning that our quest for 100% reliance on tech is futile, of course, lessons will be learnt - but they won't...

 

In addition, because it wasn't 'digital', I always had access to emergency services if I ever needed them (which I did once during a power outage).

Oooooh i hadn't realized i had now lost my landline location for 999 calls, will double check with my supplier BRSK. I know if i rang 999 on landline i could hear my address being confirmed in the background. This will now need to be logged into the "little grey cells"

3 minutes ago, Jimpster said:

Oooooh i hadn't realized i had now lost my landline location for 999 calls..

I'm not sure you have lost the 'location' ability on a 999 call, the caller display should still offer emergency services that ability. Though, if you've no electricity, you'll not be able to call 999 on your landline...

The phone networks have been digital for a long time, it's only the bit between you and the exchange that carried on being analog.

The calls were converted to digital at the exchange and sent over the internet between exchanges or outside the UK. Openreach are just moving the point it changes from digital to analog in your home rather than at an outdated exchange.

The exchange would have it's own UPS to keep powered, but even that would have had limits.

58 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I'm not sure you have lost the 'location' ability on a 999 call, the caller display should still offer emergency services that ability. Though, if you've no electricity, you'll not be able to call 999 on your landline...

Cant really test until i need it in an emergency, TBF its the only reason i keep a landline

Well folks... Just got a call from Sky from the same lady that phoned me yesterday to acknowledge my OfCom complaint.

Sky today, are shipping me out a UPS!

Proves 2 things:

(1) If you think you're right, don't give up.

(2) Sky obviously pay attention to OfCom

I'll post a photo when it arrives. Yes, it could be cr*p, but the principal that they should supply one at all to certain customers is upheld...

Good for you for holding their feet to the fire.

Am heading  down a similar path with my provider got the ball rolling.

5 hours ago, StephenFord said:

(2) Sky obviously pay attention to OfCom

Well at least that says incompetent OfCom can do something right once in a blue moon.