I topped up my coolant earlier, drove 10 miles and then started the return 10 mile journey home.  About a mile into the journey home I heard a noise as I was braking.

On pulling up home and turning off the engine I noticed my engine fan was on, and running loudly.  Popping the bonnet it looked like coolant had exploded everywhere! and the coolant tank had a very slight amount left in the bottom.  I topped it up and it seemed to fill up about an inch but then started to empty.  I tried topping up again and it didn't even start to fill up, almost as though I was pouring it straight out a leak somewhere.

There was no pressure when I opened the coolant tank, so it does sound like I have a leak somewhere.  The coolant has splashed up onto the insulation under the bonnet and pooled around some of the places around the engine (I've rinsed around the engine bay).  I don't think I overfilled the tank, although I did top up at work and it's possible I'd parked on an incline in the car park without noticing but I didn't put a lot in there.

Does anyone have any ideas of where to check for leaks? Hoping it's something that's not too costly given the time of year!

Also, I assume (perhaps stating the obvious) that the car isn't drivable in this state as the engine could seize? The nearest garage is no more than a 5 min drive away.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks

Nimp

Which engine?

Sounds like you've got a split hose which should be fairly easy to find in day light.

With regards to driving, you probably could do a gentle 5 minute drive on most engines at this time of year without coolant.  Definitely wouldn't risk it on a 1.0 EcoBoost though.

The engine won't seize without coolant.  It'll either crack or warp.

It is most likely a leak although if the Pressure Cap has developed a fault it could be that.

You would need to fill it up with a lot of water to see if there is a leak or you just haven't put enough coolant in.

Thanks TomsFocus - It's a 2012 ecoboost sadly with about 97.5k miles on the clock.

I know they're prone to ecoboom (found out a only a couple of months ago) but it has been regularly serviced with correct oil etc and so far has been pretty solid. I'm not sure if the wetbelt has been changed but I've turned off stop/start to reduce how often the belt starts from standstill 

Hopefully it will be something easy to spot in daylight, I was keeping an eye on the top gauge on way home and it never went above 1/2 way which is the usual operating temp, there were no warning lights either (in fact I've never had any warning lights in the 6yrs I've owned the car)

Will see what tomorrow and daylight brings!

10 minutes ago, Tizer said:

It is most likely a leak although if the Pressure Cap has developed a fault it could be that.

You would need to fill it up with a lot of water to see if there is a leak or you just haven't put enough coolant in.

Thanks Tizer, I'll check that out.. can I get away with just using normal tap water to check?

I don't have any coolant to hand..could always order some from amazon I guess

28 minutes ago, Nimp said:

Thanks Tizer, I'll check that out.. can I get away with just using normal tap water to check?

I don't have any coolant to hand..could always order some from amazon I guess

I wouldn't waste money on Coolant until you do some more investigation.

Apart from the Anti freeze properties it is more of a corrosion inhibitor, so if plain water was in for to long there could be some corrosion problems.

Obviously if you live in the Highlands then you would need to look out for freezing.

55 minutes ago, Tizer said:

I wouldn't waste money on Coolant until you do some more investigation.

Apart from the Anti freeze properties it is more of a corrosion inhibitor, so if plain water was in for to long there could be some corrosion problems.

Obviously if you live in the Highlands then you would need to look out for freezing.

Thanks for the info, I was unsure about any long term affects even if water was just used briefly but it makes sense that it'd be ok for diagnostic purposes 👍

Could it be pipe to/from turbo???

 

 

6 hours ago, alanfp said:

Could it be pipe to/from turbo???

 

 

Oh maybe Alanfp, I'll be sure to have a good look around there, thank you 

I've topped the coolant up with water and was surprised to see that there was still coolant in the system, which I took to be a good sign (I was half expecting it to have all drained out of a hole somewhere!  I started the engine up and watched then noticed some smoke where coolant was leaking out and hitting something hot below.  There seems to either be a loose hose, or a hole in a hose related or near to the grey t piece thing that I think may have been fitted at some point due to a previous issue.  As the coolant leaving was just a drip, and the reservoir was full I took the opportunity to drive it round to the garage and have left it in their car park, I'll give them a call on Monday and ask them to take a look when they have time, an check the rest of the system out too.  Am I right in thinking the t piece / hose involved was upgraded to.a better design in the later focus's and the parts are interchangeable? Might suggest that garage replaces with that rather than a like for like replacement.  

I took a video of the leak once I arrived at garage (after about 2/3 mins driving) if anyones interested, I've shared it on google drive at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HfTw4SeuXuOLyIfpZCqjcu8PNiKMQsmt/view?usp=sharing

That hose has already been replaced under the original recall.  But they do break again eventually.

You can replace it with another identical hose for around £30.

Or you can have the facelift hose system fitted instead.  That is a bit more work and cost, but is also much more reliable long term.

 

(Edit - Looks like the price has gone up to £40 for the original hose now - Genuine Ford Focus Mk3 C-Max All I3 Radiator Coolant Overflow Hose 12-14 1829702 | eBay )

14 hours ago, Nimp said:

I was keeping an eye on the temp gauge on way home and it never went above 1/2 way which is the usual operating temp

One of the known problems with the early Ecobooms is that when coolant is lost the sensor sits in an air space and doesn't sense the cylinder head temperature. By the time it detects the rise in temperature it's usually much too late. I believe there was a modification introduced involving a level sensor in the coolant tank.

That sounds familiar @TomsFocus 

As there was still coolant (or appeared to be) in the very bottom of the reservoir do you think its likely I've cause permanent damage?, I've read these engine can be very sensitive where coolant is concerned. Do you know how much coolant is usually in the system? I put about 1L of coolant in last night, which disappeared from reservoir straight away and then it took 2 litres of water this morning to get it to just under max. I did notice a couple of air bubbles coming back into the reservoir while topping it up this morning so I assume there must've been some air in the system.

I've found this which shows what's involved in the pipe uplift so will mention it to the garage 

 

1 minute ago, mjt said:

One of the known problems with the early Ecobooms is that when coolant is lost the sensor sits in an air space and doesn't sense the cylinder head temperature. By the time it detects the rise in temperature it's usually much too late.

Aha this is really useful to know - it never crossed my mind, thanks for mentioning something to be aware of for future.

6 minutes ago, Nimp said:

That sounds familiar @TomsFocus 

As there was still coolant (or appeared to be) in the very bottom of the reservoir do you think its likely I've cause permanent damage?, I've read these engine can be very sensitive where coolant is concerned. Do you know how much coolant is usually in the system? I put about 1L of coolant in last night, which disappeared from reservoir straight away and then it took 2 litres of water this morning to get it to just under max. I did notice a couple of air bubbles coming back into the reservoir while topping it up this morning so I assume there must've been some air in the system.

I've found this which shows what's involved in the pipe uplift so will mention it to the garage 

There's around 6 litres of coolant in the 1.0 EcoBoost engine.  Though there will almost certainly still be air trapped in the system so it probably did lose more than half overall.

It's impossible to tell whether any internal damage has been done at this point.  The coolant disappears from the top end first, and that is where most damage is likely to occur around the headgasket and the exhaust ports.  All you can do for now is fit a new hose, fill it, bleed it, and then see how it goes over the next few days.

I would be far more concerned about the wetbelt disintegrating with the age and mileage of this one.  Which means it may not be worth the extra cost of the upgrade hoses unless you're planning to replace the belts very soon anyway.

14 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

There's around 6 litres of coolant in the 1.0 EcoBoost engine.  Though there will almost certainly still be air trapped in the system so it probably did lose more than half overall.

It's impossible to tell whether any internal damage has been done at this point.  The coolant disappears from the top end first, and that is where most damage is likely to occur around the headgasket and the exhaust ports.  All you can do for now is fit a new hose, fill it, bleed it, and then see how it goes over the next few days.

I would be far more concerned about the wetbelt disintegrating with the age and mileage of this one.  Which means it may not be worth the extra cost of the upgrade hoses unless you're planning to replace the belts very soon anyway.

oh that's more than I was expecting, yeah I didn't spend any time trying to get any trapped air out so I agree there'll likely be some in there still.

Ok, yeah that makes sense.

I know, this has been on my mind since I read about it.  its really annoying as I only drive about 8k a year and I generally like the car. I feel like I'm in a crap situation.  

- My conscience won't let me sell a car on to someone else knowing it has potential problems in its current state, so I've ruled that out.  Similarly I'd feel bad doing a part exchange.

 - The nearest for dealership have quoted £1800 to replace the belt, and that's a ridiculous amount of money to find, and I begrudge paying them that when its a design issue (although to be fair if it was designed to cover 100k miles then its pretty much done that).

- I don't really want to just scrap the car, as I like it and its generally served me well (apart from having to fix the rear leaking vents problem and taking out the entire interior to dry!) , although that will at least give something towards something new.

I can't really afford to buy a replacement at the moment, so paying to have the work done is the more affordable option.  I did consider trying to find a garage that specialises in engine repairs/tuning around Ipswich and ask them to quote to do the work the dealership would do and see how much that would be, that might be a good middle ground, get the issue fixed but at (potentially) cheaper than dealership repair cost. The only thing with this is that I'd want to feel confident whoever did the work was 100% comfortable doing so and knew what they were doing.

Finally given my low yearly mileage I did consider just leaving things as they are and taking out the best breakdown cover I could get and then deal with things when/if issues occur - hopefully when I have a bit more cash, but having said that is there every good time? 

urgh I wish I'd done more homework before buying 😞. sorry for rambling!

oh, and I'm also worried that if I did replace the car I'd potentially be buying something that as its own issues that I'm not aware of, and wouldn't know where to start - I'm thinking along the lines of a Toyota or Honda, but I'd be buying second hand and don't know enough about what to look out for.  I was thinking maybe a Yaris or Auris, but I think even some of those early models my have used wet belts too (although I might be confusing that with a different model).

I wouldn't really want to buy something just to then have to fork out more cash to fix issues with what I've bought 😞

1 hour ago, Nimp said:

The nearest for dealership have quoted £1800 to replace the belt, and that's a ridiculous amount of money to find, and I begrudge paying them that when its a design issue (although to be fair if it was designed to cover 100k miles then its pretty much done that).

I did consider trying to find a garage that specialises in engine repairs/tuning around Ipswich and ask them to quote to do the work the dealership would do and see how much that would be, that might be a good middle ground, get the issue fixed but at (potentially) cheaper than dealership repair cost. The only thing with this is that I'd want to feel confident whoever did the work was 100% comfortable doing so and knew what they were doing.

I'm sure something popped up on Facebook some time ago, advertising a garage about midway between Norwich & Lowestoft that specialises in cam belt changes on these engines. Might be worth trying a Google search for Ecoboost engine timing belt specialists near Ipswich, and see what comes up. Then do your research!

It's definitely not an easy decision for those of us with a conscience.  (Very easy for everyone else!) 

Depending on which side of Ipswich you are, Approved Engines near Sudbury are doing 1.0EB wetbelt changes for less than a grand now.  They also offer complete engines if you decide to wait until the belt breaks.

Ford Ecoboost Timing belt replacement service – Approved Engines

 

Toyota engines used to be chain driven.  Some are dry belt but I'm not sure if any used a wetbelt.  That's mainly Ford, Peugeot, Citroen and more recently Vauxhall as well.  You really have to check each engine carefully to work out which ones have a wetbelt, dry belt, or chain.  And also what the replacement interval is on each of them.  Ford recommend the 1.0EB wetbelt is replaced at 10 years old so yours is on borrowed time unless it's already been replaced.  Or had a full engine replacement under warranty, of which quite a few early Mk3's did after the degas hose split and drained the coolant much more quickly than yours is leaking.

2 minutes ago, Alan G H said:

I'm sure something popped up on Facebook some time ago, advertising a garage about midway between Norwich & Lowestoft that specialises in cam belt changes on these engines.

That would have been Thurton Auto Centres.

14 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

That would have been Thurton Auto Centres.

That's the place. Why it popped up on my Facebook when I'm in South Wales is anyone's guess!

Just now, Alan G H said:

That's the place. Why it popped up on my Facebook when I'm in South Wales is anyone's guess!

Perhaps Facebook's geography is as good as mine.  I've only just realised Monmouthshire isn't in Scotland!  

37 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

It's definitely not an easy decision for those of us with a conscience.  (Very easy for everyone else!) 

Depending on which side of Ipswich you are, Approved Engines near Sudbury are doing 1.0EB wetbelt changes for less than a grand now.  They also offer complete engines if you decide to wait until the belt breaks.

Ford Ecoboost Timing belt replacement service – Approved Engines

 

Toyota engines used to be chain driven.  Some are dry belt but I'm not sure if any used a wetbelt.  That's mainly Ford, Peugeot, Citroen and more recently Vauxhall as well.  You really have to check each engine carefully to work out which ones have a wetbelt, dry belt, or chain.  And also what the replacement interval is on each of them.  Ford recommend the 1.0EB wetbelt is replaced at 10 years old so yours is on borrowed time unless it's already been replaced.  Or had a full engine replacement under warranty, of which quite a few early Mk3's did after the degas hose split and drained the coolant much more quickly than yours is leaking.

That sounds a lot more reasonable I'm less than an hour away so that's definitely a place to look at, I'll do some research and probably book in to have it done after xmas/new year break - thanks for this 👍

I'll contact the delaership and ask what work has been done to it too, it has pretty much FSH apart from covid and year after but the engine might've been swapped out as you mention.

One thing I have learnt is to research and research again when it comes to buying a replacement car!

2 hours ago, Nimp said:

I was thinking maybe a Yaris

If you are thinking about one of them I would recommend taking a test drive first and doing some manoeuvring that includes reversing into spaces.

We had some as Pool Cars and because of the shape of the back window the visibility is poor, verging on the dangerous in my opinion, especially for a small car. Maybe that was just my size not suiting the car, I don't know.

32 minutes ago, Tizer said:

If you are thinking about one of them I would recommend taking a test drive first and doing some manoeuvring that includes reversing into spaces.

We had some as Pool Cars and because of the shape of the back window the visibility is poor, verging on the dangerous in my opinion, especially for a small car. Maybe that was just my size not suiting the car, I don't know.

Ah I interesting! while I'd go for test drive, I don't think Id've thought about doing reversing, really useful stuff, will definitely do this with any test drive going forwards, thanks!