CrazyInWeston

Are Modern cars really that fast?

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Everytime I set off the line from a red light, I'm gunning it just to keep up with everyone else around me. Even vans beat my acceleration.

I'm quite competitive, so I feel I just gotta be the fastest off the line, yet I'm getting beat by cars I KNOW to have smaller engines and even vans!

The way I feel is that even my previous 1.1ltr Kia Picanto was quicker off the line! I run my car to 3/4000rpm on First, change into 2nd, repeat etc. I'm finding that everyone else keeps up or beats me.

Am I running on 2 cylinders or something?

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Your profile says you drive a Mk2 Focus - 1.6 petrol. Only 100 PS in a somewhat large car, you obviously ain't gonna set any land speed records lol

But I get what you mean - nowadays most small turbo petrol engines have higher power than the non-turbo equivalents a few years back, even if their displacement is smaller. That's why lots of tiny hatchbacks (e.g. Polo 1.2 TSI) could easily pass me or you if they wanted to. There's still no replacement for driver skill though :wink:

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As per Incontro's comments above, the VCT 1.6 petrol doesn't have huge torque and the Focus is a heavy car....not a good combination for launch starts.

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This type of engine performs best at higher RPM's. 4000 RPM is simply not enough to make this engine perform at its best. 

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They are yes. I remember the days of the XR3i, Astra GTE, Golf GTi when 100bhp was the daddy & diesels were non-turbo at about 50bhp I guess.....

 

I find my 1.6 petrol feels like it has more torque than outright power & seems best around the middle rev range. Again, it isn't winning awards but that's what the weekend car is for :smile:

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A large number of cars and vans are being remapped nowadays too.  Practically everyone I know with a turbo engined vehicle has done this.  I find it in my Swift Sport which is also a 1.6 - albeit a pretty tuned one in a very light car.  They initially beat me off the line but my car revs longer and harder, so as long as I get the RPM up high enough, the don't tend to stay in front for long.

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I'd say it depends. I've been looking at the newer 1.2 polos and that has a 0 to 60 in around 10.8 secs whereas a newer picanto 1.25 takes 11.6 seconds. These times are not bad compared to the 1.6 diesel engine in my 2006 fiesta (11.2). Overall I'd say comes down to weight, torque and driver. 

Just been looking at my top gear magazine car stats. 

1510178765068-1351451540.jpg

151017881072045561759.jpg

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My RS is modified to 450bhp I always get away from most people no problems..........what, yes, ok, I'm awake, yawn

oohhh what was I saying, oh yeah, IF ONLY 😂😂😂😂

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13 hours ago, Incontro said:

There's still no replacement for driver skill though :wink:

Of course there is...  Decent launch control will get you off the line before anyone else! :biggrin:  

 

Back on topic, as Wilco says, you need to be passing 3-4k if you're going for power, that's diesel gearchange RPM! :tongue: However, the tiny turbo petrols will have beat you from the lights and probably be on overboost before your 'CTec' even kicks in...  The 1.6 Ti-VCT isn't an engine for speed...  My 1.6TDCi is slow enough, even with a 140bhp map... :sad: 

 

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My ST spools up the turbo at 2500rpm so it will easily spin wheels if I take off too aggressively.
It is remapped though, standard first stage boost should be about 4000rpm.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, JONATHAN_11_80 said:

My mk2.5 ford focus 1.8 feels quite pokey to be honest easily keeps up with modern traffic.  From memory the 1.6 likes to be revved.

The 1.6 HAS to be revved otherwise it won't move! :whip: Although the engine does feel a lot better in the smaller/lighter Fiesta.

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Petrol you'll need to rev the nuts off if you want to move it off especially if you have people in the car. My previous car was a Peugeot 107 which had a 1 litre petrol engine. I'd say you'd have to rev it around 2000rpm for it move off nicely. I could move it off with just the clutch but that's if you're the only person in the car. With the 1.6 diesel engine in my fiesta you just need to rev just over 1000rpm for it to move off nicely and weight does not effect this. One of the reasons that I'm starting to like diesels especially the pull it gives at just about all gears. Will be sad if these silly diesel emissions will stop me driving diesels in London. 

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I wa gonna say the 1.6 ain't built for speed so I doubt however you rev it you won't be doing 10s 1/4 miles lol

Saying that my MK2.5 2.0 petrol still needs reving to get it going, from a standstill it isn't as fast as my m8s 1.4 TSI golf. But again, smaller lighter car with a turbo. Once I'm up n into 2nd 3rd etc reel him in.. 

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Hi guys I understand some of you are saying Rev Higher?

I'm scared to rev my engine past 5000, it screams, the car vibrates it sounds like its gonna explode.

As for the "Ti-VCT" kicking in, dont you worry I feel that kicking in very much indeed, its like a slow then SUDDEN increase in acceleration. It feels like theres something wrong with my gas pedal but I know its the TI-VCT kicking in when the car suddenly accelerates madly.

@Incontro Yeah the Ti-VCT actually has 116PS not 100 but then thats hardly an improvement is it. My old Kia had only 64BHP. Sure some mentioned it weighs less blah blah, I get that

I dunno, I thought for fuel efficiency you change gear soon as you could meaning lower rev, yet everyones been telling me petrol engines dont work this way and change at 5000rpm because lower revs are for diesel engines what?

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diesel or petrol for efficiency you change gear at lower revs (within reason) but with a small naturally aspirated petrol engine you can't have efficiency and any reasonable level of performance because you have the rev the you know what out of it to get it to move, which messes up the fuel economy and still doesn't really get the car to move THAT quickly.

As noted above even the larger petrols like the 2.0 without a turbo still need to be worked fairly hard to make progress although the 2.0 petrol does have a decent turn of pace if you're willing to rev it out.

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6 minutes ago, 1979Damian said:

diesel or petrol for efficiency you change gear at lower revs (within reason) but with a small naturally aspirated petrol engine you can't have efficiency and any reasonable level of performance because you have the rev the you know what out of it to get it to move, which messes up the fuel economy and still doesn't really get the car to move THAT quickly.

As noted above even the larger petrols like the 2.0 without a turbo still need to be worked fairly hard to make progress although the 2.0 petrol does have a decent turn of pace if you're willing to rev it out.

What are you saying? For city driving I change up at 2000/3000rpm. If Im just about to join the motorway I'll change up at 4000/4500rpm. I wont hit 5000rpm, I said in this thread I'm too scared to hit 5000rpm as it screams and dont want engine blow.

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22 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Of course there is...  Decent launch control will get you off the line before anyone else! :biggrin:  

 

Back on topic, as Wilco says, you need to be passing 3-4k if you're going for power, that's diesel gearchange RPM! :tongue: However, the tiny turbo petrols will have beat you from the lights and probably be on overboost before your 'CTec' even kicks in...  The 1.6 Ti-VCT isn't an engine for speed...  My 1.6TDCi is slow enough, even with a 140bhp map... :sad: 

 

ah don't be harsh, I bet you get a kick out of her in third passing 2500-3500 :D

 

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8 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

What are you saying? For city driving I change up at 2000/3000rpm. If Im just about to join the motorway I'll change up at 4000/4500rpm. I wont hit 5000rpm, I said in this thread I'm too scared to hit 5000rpm as it screams and dont want engine blow.

she wont blow, what does she red line at? 7000? when you get your MOT she will be redlined albeit that is without any load.

just make sure shes all warmed up. ramming her too hard when shes cold can cause big problems :)?

 

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10 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

I dunno, I thought for fuel efficiency you change gear soon as you could meaning lower rev, yet everyones been telling me petrol engines dont work this way and change at 5000rpm because lower revs are for diesel engines what?

It's a choice between fuel economy OR power in a petrol...  Low RPM change up gives good efficiency.  But due to the way the variable timing works, you really need to rev the engine to get power from it.  Here is a power graph...the grey line is the original power...it doesn't reach maximum until over 6500!  You're changing up at about 75bhp which is why it seems so slow...

http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/Focus16VVT115PS.pdf

 

1 hour ago, Dee_82 said:

ah don't be harsh, I bet you get a kick out of her in third passing 2500-3500 :D

 

Not really...  But it does only have half the torque of my old Golf... :sad:  It's been 5 years since it died and I still can't get over the torque from the damn Golf! :laugh:  

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I don't think you should worry about going near or above 5000revs. I used to go over 5000revs on my previous car for fun. Obviously don't get to that sort of revs on a diesel as that's its redline. 

tomsfocus I was looking at a mk5 golf but with the 2 litre diesel engine. 9.3 seconds to 60 and claimed 60 mpg. Might get it in a few years thats if the diesel emissions thing doesn't ruin it

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Zain, mine was a MK4 1.9PD engine.  Remapped from 130bhp to 180bhp.  Massive amounts of torque as well, over 400Nm...and 60mpg tank average...despite driving like a knob as I was young at the time... :laugh:

Horrific handling though, bounced off many country lane verges through understeer...the complete opposite to the oversteering Peugeots I'd owned before it lol.

Sadly the engine ate itself (common camshaft and lifter fault) and I'd ruined the clutch and DMF so wasnt worth fixing and I just broke it for parts and felt like a pauper going back to Peugeots for a while while I saved up...  

I still want a newer Golf, but they just cost so much more than a Focus for equivalent spec and engine that I ended buying a Focus 3 years ago and still can't afford a decent Golf again... :sad:

 

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I agree with the above post. Non turbo engines need revving harder than get into the power band, get my 2.0 to 3500rpm n above and she flies. As for not revving past 5000, it will be fine unless there is a serious engine fault. If you are saying the vibration is bad when you do that have you checked ur engine mounts? Could have one going if it's that bad.. 

But simple fact is a turbo'd petrol or diesel will leave a non turbo petrol standing if both r floored from a standing start 

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12 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

she wont blow, what does she red line at? 7000? when you get your MOT she will be redlined albeit that is without any load.

just make sure shes all warmed up. ramming her too hard when shes cold can cause big problems :)?

 

Pretty sure they don't redline engines during MOTs? Where did you get that from?

When checking exhaust/emissions, they do take two sets of readings AFAIK - one at idle, and the other under load, but under load is something around 3000 rpm. Nowhere near redline.

21 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

What are you saying? For city driving I change up at 2000/3000rpm. If Im just about to join the motorway I'll change up at 4000/4500rpm. I wont hit 5000rpm, I said in this thread I'm too scared to hit 5000rpm as it screams and dont want engine blow.

If your engine is in good condition, oil is replaced regularly, and engine is properly warmed up, redlining it every now and then is OK. 5000 RPM is definitely OK.

From my own personal experience, you never need to go above 4000 - 4500 RPM with this engine during normal driving, beyond that range you don't get much extra poke anyway, as max torque is near 4000 RPM anyway. The only time you ever might need to redline it is when you're overtaking on country roads, as the quicker you overtake, the less dangerous it usually is. Every little helps here.

Here is the torque curve & BHP curve for the 1.6 petrols:

SPECS2.thumb.JPG.19962b8b0c2333635b5888483cf51a29.JPG

 

 

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