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Phil 87

St Questions

23 posts in this topic

Hi guys, I'm looking at buying an ST and I just have a couple of questions that the dealer couldn't really answer:

1) Are the front seats in the ST1 just standard Fiesta seats with no extra support on the sides? (this is what the dealer suggested) Are the ST2 seats much better?

2) Why isn't cruise control available as an option? (I've seen photos of STs with the controls on the wheel)

3) Does the ST1 / ST2 have auto wipers / auto headlights / auto folding mirrors? There doesn't seem to be an option for any of these.

Thanks in advance :)

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1) The seats are all the same - recaro sports seats. Only difference is the ST 2 has part leather seats.

2) Not an option on UK car's at the moment. Blame Ford for this.

3) Again, not an option.

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Thanks, that's what I expected. It will probably be a few months before I buy the car, so maybe Ford will have come to their senses by then. Do they not realise there are motorways in the UK? You can't have a car costing nearly 20 grand without cruise control...

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I thought the ST2 seats were full leather and heated too? May be wrong though... Surely the ST models should have the luxuries of the titanium, seems if you want nice things you can't buy the most expensive car, you have to buy a cheaper less powerful one. Madness!

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I thought the ST2 seats were full leather and heated too? May be wrong though... Surely the ST models should have the luxuries of the titanium, seems if you want nice things you can't buy the most expensive car, you have to buy a cheaper less powerful one. Madness!

They are half leather

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Yes half leather and heated too. Another thing that annoys me is that EATC is only an option on the ST2. I'm sure I'll still love the car though even with no extras :)

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I thought the ST2 seats were full leather and heated too? May be wrong though... Surely the ST models should have the luxuries of the titanium, seems if you want nice things you can't buy the most expensive car, you have to buy a cheaper less powerful one. Madness!

Not really IMHO. The ST is the performance oriented model and therefore should opt to forego luxuries in exchange for motorsport influenced items like Recaro seats and harder suspension.

In-fact I think they should be braver and strip out some non-essentials like front fog lamps and A/C to save weight, maybe like a Renaultsport "Cup" version.

FOCA likes this

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Not really IMHO. The ST is the performance oriented model and therefore should opt to forego luxuries in exchange for motorsport influenced items like Recaro seats and harder suspension.

In-fact I think they should be braver and strip out some non-essentials like front fog lamps and A/C to save weight, maybe like a Renaultsport "Cup" version.

Agreed - all the junk just adds weight and at the end of the day, you don't need it and it detracts from the core driving experience - it all has a knock- on effect and if more and more gimmiks and gadgets are added it would need a heavier, more powerful alternator, further sapping the engine power - before you know it it would add another 1/2 a second onto the 0-60 and it would handle like a barge with all the extra weight!

The Ac on mine weighed 11kgs, and the (always rotatating) pulley 1.2kg, it made a significant difference to the heavy and torquy? diesel and it would probably make an even bigger difference to a higher- revving petrol

(even when the AC is switched off, the engine has to spin the 1.2kgs pulley and haul the extra 11kgs around all year long)

I can live without AC the two months of the year i need/ want it (especially with the advantages in performance, economy & reliability not having it has) but i know many people cannot live without AC - even in the UK

i think the more recent AC pumps/ systems are lighter, have a lower load (saps less engine power) than the older designs, but do not cool as well

Ford is just giving the people what they want (or what they think they want) or perhaps what they really want rather than what they think they want? - Ford once allowed the public to design a car - it was called the Edsel - one of the biggest flops in automotive history

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These days people want performance but want their creature comforts too, and it's those comforts that sell to them masses really.

JoeZS19 likes this

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Hi, agreed and modern A/C makes a very very small difference to the performancen and the mpg of a car. Weight saving is fine for a track car, which is what the Renaultsport Cup version are aimed at...

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Maybe Ford is missing a trick? Perhaps the definition between ST1 and ST2 should be clearer marked as I would like to see an RS model but can't believe one is coming?

Maybe have the ST1 as a barebones track-hatch. Ditch the DAB audio, SYNC, Quickclear, A/C, Fog-lamps and MyKey (but make the style pack mandatory) and knock a £1000 off the list price.

Then possibly make the ST2 as the performance commuter cruiser where you simply add everything back on, give EATC and Sat-Nav as standard and then add £500 to the standard list price.

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I guess a lot of people would want a stripped out ST, but personally I want to be able to live with the car every day. After having cruise control and EATC in my Titanium I want them on my next car too. Personally I'd like to see even more options like radar guided cruise contol, lane following and parking sensors :)

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I see the point about having it just as a performance car without all the unnecessary items, but as has been said above if the car is used as a daily driver there are certain things that are nice to have on it. For me having all these things come as standard is better, as when they're listed as options you'd be more likely to not choose them in favour of saving money (I know I would). Extra 'models' could work though, keeping one as the stripped down version and the others with varying levels of luxury.

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In all honesty if Ford stripped out all the creature comforts they'd be massively reducing their market!

Also realistically it would sell for around £15k at the least and for that amount of money you'd want air con, bluetooth etc. If you want a car that just goes around a track fast buy a radical or ariel atom :p

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In all honesty if Ford stripped out all the creature comforts they'd be massively reducing their market!

Also realistically it would sell for around £15k at the least and for that amount of money you'd want air con, bluetooth etc. If you want a car that just goes around a track fast buy a radical or ariel atom :P

Gadgets and junk are not expensive to make - but quality design and engineering does - thats why a 911 turbo s costs 140 grand - not because its decked out like the starship enterprise - but because of the advanced engineering, mostly hidden out of view - im sure you could buy 7 Sanyangong cars with more electric junk on it than the Porsche

You could always get an S - class merc or a big lexus - loaded with every concievable gadget but not exactly a "sports" car, or even better - a streched limo - you could have a big screen tv and a well stocked bar in that - of course, you would not want to drive it yourself - you would sit in the back!

Gadjets and gismos are just toys that you play with when you 1st get the car but then forget about, that the car manufactures have brainwashed the car buying public into thinking they need when you don't -

I know someone who bought a new car because her old one did not have i-pod connectivity!

Me - im stripping all that junk out of my car (its just extra weight) -latest thing is im trying to track down some polo blue-motion door mirrors & swop my electric mirrors for these - no powerfold, no puddle lights and no electric (completely manual) but just ultra lightweight and aerodynamic - perfect (f1 ones would not look right and are a bit expensive)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s-DYmVs3PNE

I know not everyone agrees, but i personally prefer to have less stuff (gadgets/ junk) in my car (when you specify an option - you have to ask yourself, do you REALLY need it?)- it makes it lighter/ better/ quicker/ more efficient - and mine is a daily driver/ definately not a track day car!

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It's all down to what the buyer wants I guess. For me, a every day car needs some gadgets to make your life that little bit better. If you had the cash spare to have a weekend only car, or a track day car - then strip it out to be as fun as possible.

We can only do 70 mph on the UK roads (legally ;) ) so is there much need to strip out a road going car you would use every day? I don't think so.

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It's all down to what the buyer wants I guess. For me, a every day car needs some gadgets to make your life that little bit better. If you had the cash spare to have a weekend only car, or a track day car - then strip it out to be as fun as possible.

We can only do 70 mph on the UK roads (legally ;) ) so is there much need to strip out a road going car you would use every day? I don't think so.

My car is stripped out, ive had it 8 years and never been cought speeding in it, ive owned "fully loaded" luxury cars in tha past and don't miss the toys (you would be surprised what you could live without for the sake of progress)

Less is more - the weight-saving makes a big difference to the car at all speeds, even pulling away gently from rest, it feels "effortless" bieng 2-up in the car would have been the same as it being empty, the maximum payload is increased (to 740kgs, about the same as a small van) wear-and-tear on the tyres/ brakes/ suspension and transmission is reduced, the brakes work significantly better, the great big "icing on the cake" is the improve MPG

Its certainly not my idea, with manufacturers like Mazda with weight- saving bieng a major part of the design of their ordinary cars, and Audi and Jaguar going to great lengths/ expense to save wieght in their luxury cars (including alloy chassis etc) apart from the more obvious Lotus/ Porsche/ Lambo/ Mclaren/ Ferrari with light weight "regular" cars and even lighter, stripped out "special" versions

Ford has switched from a mechanical to elecrtic power steering to reduce the load on the engine (to improve performance and economy) and it looks like they are probably being selective about which extras can be specified on the ST for similar reasons

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My car is stripped out, ive had it 8 years and never been cought speeding in it, ive owned "fully loaded" luxury cars in tha past and don't miss the toys (you would be surprised what you could live without for the sake of progress)

Less is more - the weight-saving makes a big difference to the car at all speeds, even pulling away gently from rest, it feels "effortless" bieng 2-up in the car would have been the same as it being empty, the maximum payload is increased (to 740kgs, about the same as a small van) wear-and-tear on the tyres/ brakes/ suspension and transmission is reduced, the brakes work significantly better, the great big "icing on the cake" is the improve MPG

Its certainly not my idea, with manufacturers like Mazda with weight- saving bieng a major part of the design of their ordinary cars, and Audi and Jaguar going to great lengths/ expense to save wieght in their luxury cars (including alloy chassis etc) apart from the more obvious Lotus/ Porsche/ Lambo/ Mclaren/ Ferrari with light weight "regular" cars and even lighter, stripped out "special" versions

Ford has switched from a mechanical to elecrtic power steering to reduce the load on the engine (to improve performance and economy) and it looks like they are probably being selective about which extras can be specified on the ST for similar reasons

Sorry but I disagree with regards to the options. To me it is likely that Ford kept the options list short on the ST due to the price sensitivity of the UK hot hatch market and the fact that the low price is one of it's USP's against it's competitors. Considering nearly all the reviews mention the price as a plus point, perhaps this wouldnt have been the case if you were able to add £2500 worth of toys to it.

In terms of weight most of the wiring is already in places for things like auto wipers / folding mirrors and surely the hardware to make them work (sensor box, mirrors with motors etc) can't way more than 5 kilos?

The options that have been left out on the UK spec model are standard on Euro spec ones but it costs more from what I've read in other places. This to me backs up that this is a price/positioning thing and not a performance thing.

Just out of interest how much weight have you stripped out of your car? Me being me I can barely tell the difference when I've got an extra passenger on board waying lets say 70 kilos.

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Sorry but I disagree with regards to the options. To me it is likely that Ford kept the options list short on the ST due to the price sensitivity of the UK hot hatch market and the fact that the low price is one of it's USP's against it's competitors. Considering nearly all the reviews mention the price as a plus point, perhaps this wouldnt have been the case if you were able to add £2500 worth of toys to it.

In terms of weight most of the wiring is already in places for things like auto wipers / folding mirrors and surely the hardware to make them work (sensor box, mirrors with motors etc) can't way more than 5 kilos?

The options that have been left out on the UK spec model are standard on Euro spec ones but it costs more from what I've read in other places. This to me backs up that this is a price/positioning thing and not a performance thing.

Just out of interest how much weight have you stripped out of your car? Me being me I can barely tell the difference when I've got an extra passenger on board waying lets say 70 kilos.

I Accept that cost is a major consideration when it comes to standard spec, but i would have thought optional (cost) extras could have been added if the buyer was prepared to pay for it

The bits and pieces are surprisingly heavy, and they add up, and can also have a knock on effect, for example, if there are a lot of extra electrical items added, a larger heavier, higher amparage alternator may be required, that also has a heavier load/ on the engine and a larger, heavier battery

My car is approx 150kilos lighter, the weight saving is from removing a small amount of large heavy items, (eg spare tyre/ jack 20kgs/ back seats 22kgs/ aircon 11kgs ) lots of smaller items some only a kilo or less, and fitting lighter components (exhaust /battery ) and the lightest practical wheels (ST ones are 22kgs mine are 17.4 reduces unsprung weight/ rotating mass/ narrower tyres- reduces drag) as well as reducing the parasitic loads (mechaincal waterpump/ AC pump/ pulley) if i wanted i could potentially disconnect the power steering for dyno runs/ drag racing as its no longer shared with the waterpump with the electric waterpump conversion (i considered electric power steering but its too much hassle )

it still has all the door cards (they are light & in between the wheels) dash trim carpets, center consol etc(looks virtually stock forwards of the centre pillar) its stripped rear of the back doors and the rear windows blacked out (all the weight is concentrated between the wheels, like a mid-engined car, but with a forward bias, for the FWD traction)

The difference it makes is phenominal - the few big things and all the little things add up - the roof bars only weigh 4kgs,(for the pair) this, surprisingly made an incredible difference to the turn- in, the other surprise was the air-con radiator, it was only 4kgs and also made a noticable difference to the steering (perhaps it was because i had taken so much out of the back, or because its forward of the front axle)

I know mine is a different car but something like the extra wieght of heavier powerfold/ electrically adjustable/ heated wing mirrors may affect the handling of a small car like the Fiesta more than you might expect, some of those electric adjustable seats have 18 motors in them ! (apparently)

Fiesta ST - Ok so a completely stripped out (racer style) is a bit extreme for most people, but just having the essentials without un-nessesary "luxury" kit suits the sporting character of the car - but i think what is and what isn't nessesary is quite different for different people

I would be interested to know, what you (and others) consider "nessesary" or "desirable" in a daily driver

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The whole point of a hot hatch is that it should be fast and practical, or people would just buy sports coupes.

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I'm someone who would like bare doors without proper trims, no back seats with a strut brace on the back and so on, but I wouldn't want to pay the same price, and it just wouldn't be economical for Ford to roll something out at the kind of price that would be worth it to the consumer.

Then again, I'd quite like what they did with the Mini; whipping out the back seats for the aforementioned brace :P

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The whole point of a hot hatch is that it should be fast and practical, or people would just buy sports coupes.

Totally agree with this comment. Different types of car for what different types of people want, otherwise we would all be driving the same car.

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