Morning Tom.

Sorry the SamKnows link above is for the main site, I should have posted this link to the availability page:

https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/

Looking at the TalkTalk site () the standard 'Faster Fibre' package is 38Mbps down / 10Mbps up. Your actual download speed if your line connects at the full speed of the package would be 4.75 MB/s down.

If you post the Speedtest.net result then we can see what you're getting. Thinkbroadband also have a good speed tester (https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest ).

As per @alexp999 post earlier, your line connection speed shouldn't be affected by neighbour's lines but your Wi-Fi router might be if it's set on the same channels as neighbours around you. You can get a Wi-Fi analyser app from the Play Store (haven't used this but it's not supposed to have ad's - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vrem.wifianalyzer&hl=en ) to check how the Wi-Fi channels around you are set and if there are any conflicts which might slow things down. If you can then manually change the router channels it may make things a bit better.

Thanks @Zico   Now I know how non-car people feel looking at the ECP website!  

So from samknows, I get this list - I'm not sure what LLU means, even after Googling it, is it a good thing or not?

Congratulations, you are in a broadband enabled area.

The following services are available in your location:

• BT Wholesale ADSL
• BT Wholesale ADSL Max
• BT Wholesale WBC (21CN)
• BT Wholesale SDSL
• BT FTTC
• BT FTTP
• Vodafone LLU
• TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
• Sky Broadband

LLU operator presence

Edge Telecom:	Not available
Entanet:	Not available
Fluency:	Not available
KC (Kingston):	Not available
Timico Partners:	Not available
Node4:	Not available
Orbital:	Not available
Origin Broadband:	Not available
Redcentric:	Not available
Rutland Telecom:	Not available
Sky:	Enabled
Spectrum:	Not available
TalkTalk (CPW):	Enabled
Vodafone:	Enabled
WB Internet:	Not available
Zen Internet:	Not available

Ofcom Classification

Market 3

Four or more 'principal' operators provide broadband services at this exchange. Service in this area has been deregulated!

 

 

 

 

 

Internet is much better here this morning, not sure what happened the last couple of days!

 

I don't actually have any direct neighbours atm so doubt there's any router interference, but will try that app later.

LLU means that non-BT companies have their own equipment at the exchange.

And is that on Wifi, how close to the router?

That's really if you are on FTTC, compared to what your line should be capable of (although still better than mine...). Even if you were on the slower up to 35Mbps package.

Have you looked at the router stats? Do you have anything which is connected via ethernet to test with?

10 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

LLU means that non-BT companies have their own equipment at the exchange.

And is that on Wifi, how close to the router?

That's really if you are on FTTC, compared to what your line should be capable of (although still better than mine...). Even if you were on the slower up to 35Mbps package.

Have you looked at the router stats? Do you have anything which is connected via ethernet to test with?

Ah ok, so having their own equipment should be better than borrowing BT's or doesn't it really make much difference?  I've noticed both TalkTalk & Vodafone are LLU.

Yes that's WiFi, probably about 15ft (5 metres) away, and through a closed door, it's just a cheap hollow though, not solid oak lol.  I'm also side on to the router if that makes difference.  The TT one is a massive flat slab type thing.  The laptop wireless card may also restrict it as it's about 7 years old now and was end of line at the time so probably using 10 year old technology.

I am on the slower 38Mb TT package, they call that 'Faster' fibre...which seems a little optimistic these days!  

I don't have anything connected via ethernet I'm afraid.

 

On 5/1/2020 at 12:44 PM, TomsFocus said:

Thanks @Zico   Now I know how non-car people feel looking at the ECP website!  

So from samknows, I get this list - I'm not sure what LLU means, even after Googling it, is it a good thing or not?

 

LLU is Local Loop Unbundled and as @alexp999 it means the likes of TalkTalk and Sky have their own equipment in the Openreach exchange. From the cabinet to the exchange is still over Openreach lines/fibre but there shouldn't be any capacity issues on these links. Once your connection is in the exchange, TalkTalk will direct your connection traffic over their own network links (and whatever capacity they have in place, could be more or less than what other companies have or pay for from BT Wholesale).

The Market 3 status basically means that there are 4 or more main operators in the exchange so it's de-regulated and BT Wholesale can drop prices as part of the competition. Kitz explains this quite well (better than me 😞https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/broadband_access_market.htm

On 5/1/2020 at 1:25 PM, TomsFocus said:

Ah ok, so having their own equipment should be better than borrowing BT's or doesn't it really make much difference?  I've noticed both TalkTalk & Vodafone are LLU.

Yes that's WiFi, probably about 15ft (5 metres) away, and through a closed door, it's just a cheap hollow though, not solid oak lol.  I'm also side on to the router if that makes difference.  The TT one is a massive flat slab type thing.  The laptop wireless card may also restrict it as it's about 7 years old now and was end of line at the time so probably using 10 year old technology.

I am on the slower 38Mb TT package, they call that 'Faster' fibre...which seems a little optimistic these days!  

I don't have anything connected via ethernet I'm afraid.

 

TalkTalk having there own equipment in an exchange doesn't guarantee a better connection, just that TalkTalk have more control over the connection that if they were paying BT Wholesale for links back from the exchange to their nearest POP (point of presence) at another exchange/location.

The older Wi-Fi spec's are slow and more susceptible to noise interference and physical objects that the newest standard unfortunately. The likes of the AX (Wi-Fi 6 as it has been rebranded) is far more resilient though you obviously need a device and router to support the best connections.

If you do check the Wi-Fi channels and see any conflicts then switching channels to something different might help a bit even if the laptop is old. It's worth a shot for zero expenditure.

On 5/1/2020 at 12:48 PM, TomsFocus said:

Internet is much better here this morning, not sure what happened the last couple of days!

I don't actually have any direct neighbours atm so doubt there's any router interference, but will try that app later.

Definitely looks like the 38Mb / 10Mb package which is perfectly fine for you as a single household. Perhaps the slow speeds at peak time could be that TalkTalk are congested at the exchange which unfortunately is something that any ISP can have if they don't pay for enough capacity.

On 5/1/2020 at 1:25 PM, TomsFocus said:

Ah ok, so having their own equipment should be better than borrowing BT's or doesn't it really make much difference?  I've noticed both TalkTalk & Vodafone are LLU.

Yes that's WiFi, probably about 15ft (5 metres) away, and through a closed door, it's just a cheap hollow though, not solid oak lol.  I'm also side on to the router if that makes difference.  The TT one is a massive flat slab type thing.  The laptop wireless card may also restrict it as it's about 7 years old now and was end of line at the time so probably using 10 year old technology.

I am on the slower 38Mb TT package, they call that 'Faster' fibre...which seems a little optimistic these days!  

I don't have anything connected via ethernet I'm afraid.

 

This is TalkTalk superfast (80Mbit) over WiFi 5Ghz (through a wall, distance about 10m). Max i've ever got is 80Mbit on the money (so approx 9.8MB/s down).

Don't get me wrong, I love the speed of it, it's great. I just hate being swindled by big companies...

Your old WiFi card is probably letting you down - not to mention if you have a lot of other WiFi networks around you.

Hmm, TalkTalk sent the 'last month' bill in today...and it's more expensive than usual.  Apparently they'll refund the difference if I renew with them!  If I don't renew or switch ISP, my current package jumps from £19.95 up to £33.50!!!!!! 😮  I sent them a message a week ago asking if there was any negotiation on price, either to keep what I've got, or to upgrade to the faster package, but they haven't replied.

So that's made up my mind, sod 'em, I'm moving!  

Why on earth would the monthly price increase just because you are leaving? Unless they are part billing for a month (if you're leaving mid way through) the only other charge that I can understand is if the line is being disconnected rather than swapped between providers (the disconnection/termination charge is something from Openreach and usually passed on by the ISP).

TalkTalk will never get my service even if they were the last ISP on earth.

15 minutes ago, Zico said:

Why on earth would the monthly price increase just because you are leaving? Unless they are part billing for a month (if you're leaving mid way through) the only other charge that I can understand is if the line is being disconnected rather than swapped between providers (the disconnection/termination charge is something from Openreach and usually passed on by the ISP).

TalkTalk will never get my service even if they were the last ISP on earth.

No idea, can't find any explanation for it on their site, just on the email it says -

Quote

•	Your current Fixed Low Price Plan term ends soon. Because we bill a month in advance, you may have noticed this month's bill has already gone up a little bit, and next month it may go up more. Renew now so you can continue to fix your price and take control of your bill.

I'll be starting the new contract on the day the other ends, so there should be no overlap to cover.  I wonder if they bill from the 1st of each month?  My contract started on the 3rd, and will end on the 3rd, so I don't really understand why there should be any extra charge?

 

My location is 1.1 miles from the cabinet and that is 1.8 miles from the exchange. From the cabinet to my property the lines are copper and regularly develop faults and these faults are due to 'degradation of the lines' which, despite constant reporting over the last 8 years, nothing is ever done about it. Now, my provider is providing me with 'superfast fibre', well, how can that be if the lines to me from the cabinet are copper? I have argued this point with my provider until I'm blue in the face and they still argue the toss! At this moment in time my broadband test is as follows, ping 77ms, download speed 9.10Mbps and upload speed doesn't even register. Try running a business on those figures!

3 minutes ago, Milkman said:

My location is 1.1 miles from the cabinet and that is 1.8 miles from the exchange. From the cabinet to my property the lines are copper and regularly develop faults and these faults are due to 'degradation of the lines' which, despite constant reporting over the last 8 years, nothing is ever done about it. Now, my provider is providing me with 'superfast fibre', well, how can that be if the lines to me from the cabinet are copper? I have argued this point with my provider until I'm blue in the face and they still argue the toss! At this moment in time my broadband test is as follows, ping 77ms, download speed 9.10Mbps and upload speed doesn't even register. Try running a business on those figures!

Are you sure it's Superfast fibre?  They don't seem to let you to choose superfast if the infrastructure isn't there.  I know my sister can't get superfast where she lives.

10Mb shouldn't be awful for business depending what you do?  I'd blame the all the cows using the WiFi at the same time...you'll have to restrict their iPat use!  

31 minutes ago, Milkman said:

My location is 1.1 miles from the cabinet and that is 1.8 miles from the exchange. From the cabinet to my property the lines are copper and regularly develop faults and these faults are due to 'degradation of the lines' which, despite constant reporting over the last 8 years, nothing is ever done about it. Now, my provider is providing me with 'superfast fibre', well, how can that be if the lines to me from the cabinet are copper? I have argued this point with my provider until I'm blue in the face and they still argue the toss! At this moment in time my broadband test is as follows, ping 77ms, download speed 9.10Mbps and upload speed doesn't even register. Try running a business on those figures!

It's fibre to the cabinet, I'm about the same distance to mine.

14 minutes ago, Milkman said:

My location is 1.1 miles from the cabinet and that is 1.8 miles from the exchange. From the cabinet to my property the lines are copper and regularly develop faults and these faults are due to 'degradation of the lines' which, despite constant reporting over the last 8 years, nothing is ever done about it. Now, my provider is providing me with 'superfast fibre', well, how can that be if the lines to me from the cabinet are copper? I have argued this point with my provider until I'm blue in the face and they still argue the toss! At this moment in time my broadband test is as follows, ping 77ms, download speed 9.10Mbps and upload speed doesn't even register. Try running a business on those figures!

most providers (except virgin) offering superfast fibre internet are using FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) and then old school wire to the home. The infrastructure for that is owned by openreach so no wonder nothing is being done about the degredation of the copper wires. Even the government has said that openreach isn't up to par in terms of upgrades, repairs and customer service. 

FTTC is far better than copper infrastructure all the way to your local exchange.

My nearest exchange is over 5 miles away and the signal degradation over that distance used to severely throttle the bandwidth, fibre connections drastically reduce the throttling and also allows for accurate fault diagnosis on the network.

Im my case the street cabinet is less than 100 metres away from my property so if there is any problems in the copper line it is easier to diagnose and rectify.

When I first moved in 17 years ago the property was pre-fitted for Eurobell (now Virgin) and as I wanted BT the existing connection was activated at the cabinet.

Plugged the phone in and nothing- the Eurobell engineers had at some point cut the BT line outside my property just leaving the cabling pinned to my wall (apparently a common occurrence which was not their right to do as it's not their infrastructure to interfere with).

BT were originally going to charge me to reconnect the wiring but after a bit of "debating" they agreed to run off a new connection for free.

Unfortunately the legs they ran from in the cabinet were a bit old and perfectly positioned so that every time the cabinet was accessed the silicate bags inside for moisture control would hit my connection and knock one of the legs out.

I would still get internet but the phone line would go down, in the end they had to put a sign inside the cabinet warning engineers to pay special attention to certain connections to avoid cutting off multiple phone lines.

Thankfully now as I'm on fibre infrastructure and the cabinet has been upgraded / replaced I have no problems.

Funnily enough my immediate neighbour recently moved from Virgin to Sky so needed a cabinet connection and they connected to the cable that was disconnected from my property years ago and they were having major problems keeping a stable broadband signal until I informed them of the old connection they were wired in to.

They got a new connection and compensation from Sky for the inconvenience and I got a nice bottle of JD from them as a thank you. [emoji106]

 

As an aside- I ripped out the Eurobell boxes on my wall and threw them in a skip and reversed the flow on their phone extension boxes (bridged between the new BT socket and the Eurobell one next to it) thus turning all the Eurobell sockets into BT extensions, far cheaper than running all new sockets and wiring throughout the house.

Tbh, the only people who ring me on my landline are [emoji867] telesales [emoji867] and my technophobic parents, everything else is via my personal or work mobiles (carrying two phones makes me look like a flamin' drug dealer [emoji1787]).

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

BT are too busy lining their own pockets and making their bosses and shareholders rich rather than using the money they extort from their customers to improve, overhaul and renew the infrastructure, if you are not a BT customer you haven't got a hope in hell of getting anything done, even the other telecoms service providers have their hands tied and if you live in the middle of nowhere you're on a hiding to nothing.

7 hours ago, Milkman said:

BT are too busy lining their own pockets and making their bosses and shareholders rich rather than using the money they extort from their customers to improve, overhaul and renew the infrastructure, if you are not a BT customer you haven't got a hope in hell of getting anything done, even the other telecoms service providers have their hands tied and if you live in the middle of nowhere you're on a hiding to nothing.

It doesn’t work like that. BT has no extra influence over open reach to get things fixed. And if open reach upgrade an area with faster services that benefits all providers. 
 

Sure BT provides the funds for open reach to upgrade and fix areas but there is 0 benefit being a BT customer compared to any other using the open reach network. 

I beg to differ on that one Alex, Openreach was part of BT but OFCOM ruled it a monopoly and instructed the two to become independent but they are still in BT's pocket and as such the relationship between them remains as before. Why does BT use Openreach for all their infrastructure when there are other Companies out there?, because they are both in together. Why is it that when you have an issue with your landline, which incorporates your BB, when you report an issue/fault to your provider, they report it to BT who in turn hand it to Openreach?, I'll tell you why, because BT is still in charge and hold all the strings. As I said, the few properties in my location have been having issues with degradation of the lines for the past 8 years and despite reporting issues on a regular basis to our respective service providers, nothing is ever done, the independent service suppliers have no power over either BT or Openreach. If Openreach was an independent Company, why can we not report issues direct to them?

3 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I beg to differ on that one Alex, Openreach was part of BT but OFCOM ruled it a monopoly and instructed the two to become independent but they are still in BT's pocket and as such the relationship between them remains as before. Why does BT use Openreach for all their infrastructure when there are other Companies out there?, because they are both in together. Why is it that when you have an issue with your landline, which incorporates your BB, when you report an issue/fault to your provider, they report it to BT who in turn hand it to Openreach?, I'll tell you why, because BT is still in charge and hold all the strings. As I said, the few properties in my location have been having issues with degradation of the lines for the past 8 years and despite reporting issues on a regular basis to our respective service providers, nothing is ever done, the independent service suppliers have no power over either BT or Openreach. If Openreach was an independent Company, why can we not report issues direct to them?

No, as I said it doesn't work like that.

If you have a problem with your line, you contact your ISP/landline biller and they contact openreach directly.

BT retail contacts openreach in the same way every other ISP and landline provider using the openreach network does. BT retail gets no special treatment or access to faster/better repairs.

If you are using a provider that isn't BT, then BT don't even get informed of a fault, the request goes directly to openreach. The provider don't deal with BT, they deal with openreach.

The only time it could differ is if you are paying line rental to BT and broadband separately. Which is a recipe for disaster anyway as they just end up blaming the other party. It's always better to have line rental and broadband with the same company imo.

I went to type a long post in reply to @Milkman but have decided to delete most of it.

You need to make this distinction when referring to 'BT' as they are operating independently and if they weren't then you'll never stop hearing from the likes of TalkTalk, Sky or Virgin about it if things were like they were back before Openreach was fully independent.

Openreach own the physical network and maintain the fibre and copper last mile connections to customer properties.

BT Wholesale provide ISPs with capacity over the Openreach network. Other Wholesalers include TalkTalk and Sky who use private physical networks mostly between exchanges but in some limited areas they also have last mile connections over non-Openreach network.

BT Retail are purely an ISP. They have no control or influence over BT Wholesale or Openreach.

@Milkman if you are having connection problems then you must complain to your ISP. You pay your ISP to provide a service and they are responsible to report any issues to the wholesale or network provider that they use. Just because Openreach are the dominant network provider doesn't mean your actual service or issue is linked to Openreach.

I also want to add my own two pence (without further derailing the thread) that if people wish to complain about the broadband situation, then we should be focusing it on the likes of Liberty Global (Virgin's parent company) and the likes of TalkTalk and Sky who have whinged and moaned in the past about Openreach but never made the effort to build or expand their own networks. Liberty Global have been making progress within the last 2 or 3 years under the Virgin Media Project Lightning umbrella. Yes TalkTalk are also beginning to make limited use of AltNet builders (CityFibre etc.) but they are only available in a few areas and sometimes are overbuilt in those areas already well served with other providers.

Hmm, really starting to go off TalkTalk now...  'If we've got some of your money, you can only have it back if you ask'... 😒  When I left Sky, I got an automatic refund of the unused days!

Your account may have a credit balance after all payments have cleared, and you'll be able to request a refund for this amount. Please don't cancel your Direct Debit until your final bill has been settled, as this is the easiest way to refund you.

@TomsFocus I forgot to say that if you're still to set in motion any change/switch then check out TopCashback for any ISPs offering cashback for new contracts.

On 5/7/2020 at 12:49 PM, TomsFocus said:

Hmm, really starting to go off TalkTalk now...  'If we've got some of your money, you can only have it back if you ask'... 😒  When I left Sky, I got an automatic refund of the unused days!

Your account may have a credit balance after all payments have cleared, and you'll be able to request a refund for this amount. Please don't cancel your Direct Debit until your final bill has been settled, as this is the easiest way to refund you.

They have always been an incompetent company, but with the current crisis they are now totally shambolic, let you wallet do the walk walk.

1 hour ago, Zico said:

@TomsFocus I forgot to say that if you're still to set in motion any change/switch then check out TopCashback for any ISPs offering cashback for new contracts.

Great minds...

At risk of setting off the Milkman, I have gone with Vodafone Superfast 2.  £22.95 a month for up to 75MB, guaranteed 55Mb I think.  Free router and no setup fees.  Plus £72.25 back through Topcashback.  

TCB isn't always perfect and I certainly didn't make the choice based on that, but it'll be a nice bonus if I do get it.