Focus ST Mk3 metallic noise at low speeds

[Monks600]

Hi there,

 

Was wondering if anyone could shed any light on the below, it’s doing my tree in. It’s a 14 plate focus st mk3

 

When at low speeds and whilst using the gears to slow me down, I can hear a metallic noise with the windows down. Can’t hear it with the windows up.

 

It on seems to be when I’m letting the car roll whilst in gear doing slow speeds, for example driving around my estate and just taking it easy and staying in first or second and then letting the gears slow me down.

 

I’ve checked the following:

 

- front disk shields

- exhaust heat shield

- wheel bearings

 

I can’t for love or money figure out why it’s doing this, could anyone suggest anything else I could check?

 

 

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[F0CUE]

Front swaybar links can make sounds like that when slowing cos the engine shakes which can cause movement in the struts which the swaybar links are connected to and the movement resonates through the stuts but usually is heard from inside too but the St sound proofing might be better than basic models. 

[Monks600]

Front swaybar links can make sounds like that when slowing cos the engine shakes which can cause movement in the struts which the swaybar links are connected to and the movement resonates through the stuts but usually is heard from inside too but the St sound proofing might be better than basic models. 

Brill, something else for me to have a nosey at! Cheers pal!


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[WireyWhenWet]

Is it more of a knocking sound or a continuous whir/grind?

If knocky, have a look to see if you can shove the exhaust around quite hard up front, at lower speeds the movement is much more exaggerated and will lessen as you speed up.

As F0CUE said, front links can be suspect too.

Have you got ability to jack up each end a smidge? Get the front wheels off the floor and do two grabs at each wheel, top & bottom (12&6) and see if you can rock the wheel at all on the hub, then same again at the sides (9&3), if you can get any play out of the wheels you're looking at something worn, between links, ball joints, bushes, strut mount or even a coil spring. Give the back a check as well if you're not sure where the sound is emanating from.

Does it happen on flat driving with bumps, or maybe if you turn the wheel on a smooth road with no bumps at all?

[Monks600]

Hey!

It’s more of a continuous whir, whine and it only happens at low speeds.. for example I’ll be in 2nd gear doing 20mph and if I just let the car slow down to 15mph by itself with no use of breaks and only the resistance of 2nd gear then this noise will occur. Once there is no resistance left in 2nd gear and the clutch catch’s like your about to stall but you’re not as at this point you’re doing about 5-10mph the noise disappears.

It’s really weird.
I’ll get both sides jacked up and have a wobble and pull off each wheel to see if there’s any given.

And this occurs on any surface type, smooth, bumpy, doesn’t matter. The noise does disappear when I put my clutch in and just let the car roll, so something is definitely vibrating when under the resistance of the gears/clutch.


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[WireyWhenWet]

1 hour ago, Monks600 said:

Hey!

It’s more of a continuous whir, whine and it only happens at low speeds.. for example I’ll be in 2nd gear doing 20mph and if I just let the car slow down to 15mph by itself with no use of breaks and only the resistance of 2nd gear ...

The noise does disappear when I put my clutch in and just let the car roll, so something is definitely vibrating when under the resistance of the gears/clutch.

That to me instantly says gearbox and low fluid - have you noticed any leaks at all or issues with gear changes such as it being a little harder to get some gears even with the clutch fully in? Any slight stiffness (Matron! 😳) or crunching, etc?

Check your drive shafts if you can as well to see if theres anything leaking from the engine side seals, you should be able to see in but look for damage to any gaiters as well as that'll let dust in to places you dont want it to go.

It could be as simple as needing a seal and a top up, but more of a whine for me I would look to just do a fluid change anyway and check for leaks; that was I can judge the condition of what comes out a little better. Garages can do this for you, some much cheaper than others but unless you've got full knowledge of what to do I wouldn't recommend doing it alone one day just in case you get stuck. The few things that could go wrong might end up a little more expensive if not done correctly.

[Monks600]

That to me instantly says gearbox and low fluid - have you noticed any leaks at all or issues with gear changes such as it being a little harder to get some gears even with the clutch fully in? Any slight stiffness (Matron! [emoji15]) or crunching, etc?
Check your drive shafts if you can as well to see if theres anything leaking from the engine side seals, you should be able to see in but look for damage to any gaiters as well as that'll let dust in to places you dont want it to go.
It could be as simple as needing a seal and a top up, but more of a whine for me I would look to just do a fluid change anyway and check for leaks; that was I can judge the condition of what comes out a little better. Garages can do this for you, some much cheaper than others but unless you've got full knowledge of what to do I wouldn't recommend doing it alone one day just in case you get stuck. The few things that could go wrong might end up a little more expensive if not done correctly.

Thanks for the suggestions, I’m going to have another poke around tomorrow and see if I notice or can find anything.

I’ve literally this minute plugged the car in to the laptop and looked through forscan for any fault codes that may indicate something but that’s all fine which is good. So I can tick that off the list.

Thank you so much for your help, I’ll keep you updated. As you can imagine, it’s constantly on my mind and annoying me.


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[Milkman]

If the said noise manifests itself as you say when the car is in gear but coasting and not when the car is pulling under a bit of acceleration, as said, check the fluid level in the gearbox and if that's okay jack each front wheel up and out of gear rotate forward and back and if you feel or hear any 'clacking' that could suggest you have a constant velocity joint gone in one of the driveshafts. Also put the car in gear and do the same, if the CV joints are okay but you get a chatter from the gearbox that might suggest that an input shaft in the box is worn.

[Monks600]

So this gets more interesting, had a really good look round and tried all the suggestions. Still no good and the sound is still there.

 

Now, I’m not one to rev my engine or red line it like a yobbo but i noticed yesterday whilst stationary with hand break on and revving the car quite hard, you can hear the metallic noise at really high rpms... (brother in law wanted to hear what the exhaust sounds like on the MK3 ST)

 

So my thought now is, heat shield on/near the catalytic converters or possible heat shield near or on the turbo?

 

I’m not too clued up on if mines has these but it sounds like it’s coming from that area... also, could it be the cat bracket that holds it in place?

 

The engine mounts on the focus st mk3 are rubbish, so the engine does move around quite a bit in the bay when accelerating and this seems to be a common characteristic of this car..

 

Need to find some more time to have another look.

 

 

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[WireyWhenWet]

33 minutes ago, Monks600 said:

Now, I’m not one to rev my engine or red line it like a yobbo but i noticed yesterday whilst stationary with hand break on and revving the car quite hard, you can hear the metallic noise at really high rpms..

 

Hah. Interesting.

Funnily enough on my mk2.5 I had EXACTLY that as above for absolutely months and it got to a point of anything over 4k it would give a real metallic whine, but not like a rubbing, more of a clatter but so quick it went up and down in pitch with the revs.

As it happens, my alternator bracket should have had 3 bolts, but one was missing and causing the noise where at higher rpm the vibrations of the engine made enough of a vibration to affect it.

5 garages looked at that issue, 4 told be the camshaft was on it's way, one said something was loose but couldn't fine what..

I have a buddy who took one look and a listen, instantly found that hole and when leaning on the bracket it was bliss..

It's definitely worth a look for a loose bracket, something which touches the engine is the most likely candidate there.

Great bit of info if it is that by the way, I'd have never have thought about that if you hadn't have said it!

[Monks600]

Hah. Interesting.
Funnily enough on my mk2.5 I had EXACTLY that as above for absolutely months and it got to a point of anything over 4k it would give a real metallic whine, but not like a rubbing, more of a clatter but so quick it went up and down in pitch with the revs.
As it happens, my alternator bracket should have had 3 bolts, but one was missing and causing the noise where at higher rpm the vibrations of the engine made enough of a vibration to affect it.
5 garages looked at that issue, 4 told be the camshaft was on it's way, one said something was loose but couldn't fine what..
I have a buddy who took one look and a listen, instantly found that hole and when leaning on the bracket it was bliss..
It's definitely worth a look for a loose bracket, something which touches the engine is the most likely candidate there.
Great bit of info if it is that by the way, I'd have never have thought about that if you hadn't have said it!

No way, that’s a good shout! I’m just making a list of things to check for when I next get chance to get under the car!

And I’m just hoping it’s a heat shield of some sort, or it could be the rear motor mount that’s possibly worn in causing the engine to rattle more than it should.

You know what I’ve just realised, I’ve got 3 bolts missing on the plastic under tray... it couldn’t be that could it? It’s just clicked with me now...

Honestly, it’s driving me absolutely nuts.


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[WireyWhenWet]

14 hours ago, Monks600 said:

You know what I’ve just realised, I’ve got 3 bolts missing on the plastic under tray... it couldn’t be that could it? It’s just clicked with me

I'd be surprised if the tray is at fault when it's not at speed to be fair especially if rpm based.

When you stick your head in take a long screwdriver or long bar with you and touch it to various areas near the origin of the noise and have someone rev, stick your head on the end and 'listen', you'll be able to hear/feel the vibrations get stronger as you poke around.

Just dont sticking in a moving bit or across the battery, eh! 😅

[Monks600]

I'd be surprised if the tray is at fault when it's not at speed to be fair especially if rpm based.
When you stick your head in take a long screwdriver or long bar with you and touch it to various areas near the origin of the noise and have someone rev, stick your head on the end and 'listen', you'll be able to hear/feel the vibrations get stronger as you poke around.
Just dont sticking in a moving bit or across the battery, eh! [emoji28]

Still not had chance to get under the car, which I don’t mind! Gives me a break and more chance to research!

Hopefully I’ll have a nosey tomorrow fingers crossed. I’m hoping it’s just some sort of panel or heat shield in the engine bay and at the worst, the CAT bracket.

Yeah, hopefully I don’t lose a finger or my beard doesn’t get caught in a belt [emoji23][emoji23]


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[Monks600]

UPDATE:

 

it’s been a while but, hear me out....

The noise is coming from the turbo and it turns out in the focus st mk3 you are running a Borg Warner KO3 turbo and they have some issues.

 

This sound comes from the waste gate chattering inside the turbo due to either a loose actuator rod that needs tightening or the waste gate itself is goosed.

 

With only 50,000 on the clock and having this issue, not happy one bit. Going to take it to my family mechanic and see what he says... worst case scenario, it’s a completely new turbo :(

 

 

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[F0CUE]

2 hours ago, Monks600 said:

UPDATE:

 

it’s been a while but, hear me out....

The noise is coming from the turbo and it turns out in the focus st mk3 you are running a Borg Warner KO3 turbo and they have some issues.

 

This sound comes from the waste gate chattering inside the turbo due to either a loose actuator rod that needs tightening or the waste gate itself is goosed.

 

With only 50,000 on the clock and having this issue, not happy one bit. Going to take it to my family mechanic and see what he says... worst case scenario, it’s a completely new turbo 😞

 

 

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Gives you an excuse to get a hybrid one 🤪 wouldn't be happy myself at 50k either. 

[Monks600]

Gives you an excuse to get a hybrid one [emoji2957] wouldn't be happy myself at 50k either. 

Just told the mrs and I may have already gave her a rough price based on a hybrid turbo hahaha.

I’m hoping when I pop over to my friends garage he will give me some good news. Don’t fancy forking out and faffing around!

Upon further research, vw/Audi group and bmw owners are reporting the same issues on the K03 turbo.

I was expecting to get at least 90,000 out of it... pretty miffed!


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[F0CUE]

Well hopefully it can be rebuilt and fixed or something. Yeh the prices are steep but would be worth it in the long run. 

[Monks600]

UPDATE:

Well, this has took an interesting turn. My family mechanic looked at it and it’s nothing to do with the turbo, that’s bang on which is a relief. I was really close though as the cat connects on to the turbo so understandably I thought 100% it was the turbo.

Turns out the catalytic converter is on its way out :/ the rattle is the baffles and crap breaking up in the cat. Giving a good old shake and tap and it clearly moves.

Seriously, 50,000 miles and it’s really well looked after and not abused and the CAT is on its way out... absolute joke. Really didn’t think I’d be replacing the cat at 50k....


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[F0CUE]

1 hour ago, Monks600 said:

UPDATE:

Well, this has took an interesting turn. My family mechanic looked at it and it’s nothing to do with the turbo, that’s bang on which is a relief. I was really close though as the cat connects on to the turbo so understandably I thought 100% it was the turbo.

Turns out the catalytic converter is on its way out 😕 the rattle is the baffles and crap breaking up in the cat. Giving a good old shake and tap and it clearly moves.

Seriously, 50,000 miles and it’s really well looked after and not abused and the CAT is on its way out... absolute joke. Really didn’t think I’d be replacing the cat at 50k....


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Well thank god for that it won't be as costly as a turbo replacement. 😁

[mjt]

13 hours ago, Monks600 said:

Seriously, 50,000 miles and it’s really well looked after and not abused and the CAT is on its way out... absolute joke. Really didn’t think I’d be replacing the cat at 50k

If you bought the car second hand maybe it had the cat nicked and replaced with a used one from a breakers.

[Monks600]

If you bought the car second hand maybe it had the cat nicked and replaced with a used one from a breakers.

Just checked part numbers and stuff etched on to it and it’s 100% the original cat. Part numbers match across quite a few things under the bonnet.

That was my first thought though, cat theft is rife in Manchester!

I just can’t believe it’s on its way out at 50,000 miles. That’s a joke.


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[TomsFocus]

Good excuse to get a stainless system on that will last considerably longer than Fords low budget effort!  

[Monks600]

Good excuse to get a stainless system on that will last considerably longer than Fords low budget effort!  

Got a few on watch on eBay, just trying to convince the Mrs on a performance one hahaha. Must admit, they’re a lot cheaper than expected.

For a standard cat with only 1,000 miles on it. He wants £130! Bargain or what? You can tell it’s never used as the outside metal is still shiny!

Think I’m gonna keep scouring for a performance one :) probability better made as well!


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