4 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

I'm so glad similar arguments were lost a hundred or so years ago.

 

Aahhh... but there was strong organic growth with the petrol engine as it was vastly superior to steam. In the same way that CDs were a vast improvement over the LP, but the 'Sony mini disc' which was also a technical improvement over the CD however, the general public ignored it as they were quite satisfied with the CD!

Using the same analogy, petrol cars are like CDs, Battery are like 'mini discs'...

We are sleep walking into a mobility disaster with the statutory compulsion of battery cars, but doesn't really bother me as I'm in the autumn of life now.

Petrol cars will continue in use for decades yet, as people realise that the production/manufacture of battery cars are anything but 'green', and there will always be folk like me who are on a tight budget where new (expensive) cars are just not an option...

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Petrol cars will continue in use for decades yet

I may be getting cynical, but I wonder how long it will be after the sale of new ICE cars is banned, before the use of them is banned also?

8 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I may be getting cynical, but I wonder how long it will be after the sale of new ICE cars is banned, before the use of them is banned also?

I can't see a total ban happening for quite a few yrs tbh although some Cities have banned them from Town centres I believe. I think the next step will be a certain distance from schools but for day to day getting from A to B I can't see it happening in my lifetime (51 next week).

8 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I may be getting cynical, but I wonder how long it will be after the sale of new ICE cars is banned, before the use of them is banned also?

I think that money talks - companies like BP, Exxon, Shell, Chevron etc will simply 'buy' governments to stop that happening. Wars to prevent the curtailment of oil production have killed 100s of thousands in the past (& current!), so a country ban would be extremely unpalatable to those with proper money invested!

Yep.  Change will happen wether we like it or not.

TBH I've driven my inlaws Lexus hybrid and I like it.  Smooth and frugal at the kind of speeds I will do.  What's not to like?

 

4 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

 

TBH I've driven my inlaws Lexus hybrid and I like it.  Smooth and frugal at the kind of speeds I will do.  What's not to like?

 

You do know that our government wlll be making the sale of hybrids illegal too!! Bl**dy eejits... LOL

2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

so a country ban would be extremely unpalatable to those with proper money invested!

Signs are that the oil giants are seeing the writing on the wall and moving money into other things. A lot of investment in exploration etc has been shelved or drastically reduced, while they're getting involved in electricity production and charging networks.

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

You do know that our government wlll be making the sale of hybrids illegal too!! Bl**dy eejits... LOL

Yeah, plug ins look like they may get another 5 years more provided they can run an (as yet unspecified) distance on pure electric.

Edit: and of course the engine in any hybrid still has to comply with Euro 7 so likely to be very expensive anyway.

Edited May 14, 20215 yr by Eric Bloodaxe
Extra sentence

1 hour ago, Wino said:

I can't see it happening in my lifetime (51 next week).

Lol  a few years back I thought that about the ICE sales ban!😀

At a spritely 51 you might have to endure another 40 years on current life expectancy!!   (Maybe longer once all of the localised ICE pollution is stopped...or maybe you'll get run over by a silent, driverless, battery car aged 55...)

Realistically though, they don't have to ban older cars use...just tax fuel and ICE cars so heavily that people can no longer afford to use them daily.  In the same way the majority of diesels have been effectively banned from London by the ULEZ charge.

7 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

At a spritely 51 you might have to endure another 40 years on current life expectancy!!   (Maybe longer once all of the localised ICE pollution is stopped...or maybe you'll get run over by a silent, driverless, battery car aged 55...)

Or, as I say about the doctor's advice to cut back on drink and other things we enjoy - you might not actually live longer but it will certainly feel like it!😀

Lol. Everyday is a bonus.

Reading the news today it looks like they will also ban gas central heating boilers, they already seem to have it in for coal fires and wood burners.

So we wont be able to go far in our battery powered cars and we wont be able to sit at home in the warm. Perhaps I'll have to take up walking which will allow me to travel and keep warm at the same time.

1 hour ago, pcaouolte said:

Reading the news today it looks like they will also ban gas central heating boilers, they already seem to have it in for coal fires and wood burners.

So we wont be able to go far in our battery powered cars and we wont be able to sit at home in the warm. Perhaps I'll have to take up walking which will allow me to travel and keep warm at the same time.

 

Yes, the gas boilers have been on the hit list for some time now. 

I have no objection to going green if it brings about an actual improvement, but in many cases it seems the green alternatives are far costlier and less efficient than what they are replacing.

I was smiling to myself the other day reading a test of an electric vehicle. The guy was bemoaning the fact it didn't have heated seats. Reason being that it uses less juice than heating the whole car in cold weather and so gives you a few extra miles of precious range.

They say things go round in circles. In the days when most people could only afford to heat one room, I remember my mum telling me to wear an extra pullover if I wanted to play in my bedroom in winter. It looks like knitwear sales may be set to rise again in future, so putting money into sheep may be a good investment !😁

 

28 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

 

They say things go round in circles. In the days when most people could only afford to heat one room, I remember my mum telling me to wear an extra pullover if I wanted to play in my bedroom in winter. It looks like knitwear sales may be set to rise again in future, so putting money into sheep may be a good investment !😁

 

That's how I was brought up too, no central heating, though we had some 'dimplex' radiators when it was really icy! I still throw on a jumper rather than turn heating on LOL

9 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

we had some 'dimplex' radiators when it was really icy! 

You were posh! We just had the ice!😀

39 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

 

I remember my mum telling me to wear an extra pullover if I wanted to play in my bedroom in winter.

 

My wife won't like that idea.🤣

33 minutes ago, pcaouolte said:

My wife won't like that idea.🤣

No she doesn't 😮😉

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

 

Yes, the gas boilers have been on the hit list for some time now. 

I have no objection to going green if it brings about an actual improvement, but in many cases it seems the green alternatives are far costlier and less efficient than what they are replacing.

I was smiling to myself the other day reading a test of an electric vehicle. The guy was bemoaning the fact it didn't have heated seats. Reason being that it uses less juice than heating the whole car in cold weather and so gives you a few extra miles of precious range.

They say things go round in circles. In the days when most people could only afford to heat one room, I remember my mum telling me to wear an extra pullover if I wanted to play in my bedroom in winter. It looks like knitwear sales may be set to rise again in future, so putting money into sheep may be a good investment !😁

 

I recently bought a new pair of wellies......does that count ? 🤣

49 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

You were posh! We just had the ice!😀

you were posh to have ice!, back in the day , we were that poor we didnt even have ice. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'lm 61 in a few weeks and I moved into my first home with central heating 8 years ago, so the ban on gas boilers would not be too much of a backward step for me 😂

I'm all for the ban on NEW build houses, it's just a matter of bringing in building standard that force more efficient houses to be built, yes things like heat exchangers,  underground heat sources and solar panels are a bit more expensive in the first place, but over the 100+ years  life span of a house much cheaper average. For too long have we allowed the big builder to throw up cheap shoddy built housing.

 

3 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

I'm all for the ban on NEW build houses

I'm with you there Mark, no excuse on new builds not to incorporate greener technology and energy saving measures. Friends of ours have just bought a new build apartment with a gas boiler which seems utter madness.

Builders will shove in the cheapest solution available. When they ban gas boilers the builders will put storage heaters in, they aren't going to install hideously expensive heat pump systems if they are not forced to do so. 

Storage heaters are useless, can't be considered 'central' heating imo. 

There must be an efficient way to heat water electronically in replacement of a gas or oil boiler?

Trouble with adding new tech to new houses is that they're already too expensive for many young people to mortgage now.  It's a difficult balance, as with trying to get enough tech into cars without making them unattainably expensive...

2 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Storage heaters are useless, can't be considered 'central' heating imo. 

 

My late granny had them in her house (in the 60s!), they were the size of a chest freezer, and totally uncontrollable, pouring out heat when there was a heatwave, and cold to the touch in winter 🤣

Growing up in a 70s council estate we had one room that was warm and the rest of the house was FREEZING.  You learnt to wear clothes.

Noone needs central heating but like many things we wouldn't be without it.