2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

 Can you imagine going back to the 70s and telling someone they could carry a phone with them everywhere...but that they'd have to charge it up every 2 or 3 days.  Sounds like a lot of hassle, but most of us do it without even thinking now. 

There was and probably still are people complaining about the lack of public phone boxes.

4 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Lol, you should try getting away with one holiday a year with my Mrs! I certainly agree on the "comfort breaks" though - when you get to a certain age......!

But we certainly don't want to be tied to motorway service areas with rip off pricing, so widest possible charger coverage is needed.

At my age I need a comfort break after 30 mins driving if first thing in the morning!! 

41 minutes ago, iantt said:

At my age I need a comfort break after 30 mins driving if first thing in the morning!! 

As long as that?!😃

2 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

As long as that?!😃

Yep, I can just get to work!! 

As has been said before the governments 2030 "ban" will be a total irrelevant before then, another manufacturer going total electric by 2025

Jaguar car brand to be all-electric by 2025
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56072019

17 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

As has been said before the governments 2030 "ban" will be a total irrelevant before then, another manufacturer going total electric by 2025

Jaguar car brand to be all-electric by 2025
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56072019

Yes, 2025 is looking like a bit of a tipping point, with several sources saying that electric cars will more or less achieve price parity with ICE by then.

Clearly no-one will want to have a lot of unsold stock of ICE cars on 31 December 2029 so production for the UK market (and others which are following similar timescales) will be wound down well before, I imagine. 

I was reading in another article that for Jaguar to achieve profitability on the limited volumes they are able to produce, they will aim to be a "premium luxury brand" with target prices £80k upwards. Probably not of much interest to most of us on this forum!😃 

Interesting also that the Land Rover arm of JLR is reportedly looking at hydrogen fuel cells for the bigger vehicles at least.

 

13 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I was reading in another article that for Jaguar to achieve profitability on the limited volumes they are able to produce, they will aim to be a "premium luxury brand" with target prices £80k upwards. Probably not of much interest to most of us on this forum!😃 

 

Oh I don't know...people seem to want a rattle free Vignale...  They may have to stump up for a Jag instead.  Rattles will seem so much louder without any engine noise!  

Just now, Eric Bloodaxe

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

Wow, this thread really has lost direction LOL 🤣

Vaguely back on topic. I spotted a letter in the paper this morning, where the writer was suggesting that grants to buy electric cars were not a good idea. Apparently what we should do is restrict those nasty ICE cars to 60mph so that the drivers will be so annoyed at nice electric cars overtaking them at 70, they'll want to buy one. Hmmm..........!

😂

80k offft time to see about about a battery powered motor bike get them for 2k and if it the battery go’s flat just hang on to anther car to pull you along free fuel or electricity ⚡️ lol 😂

1 hour ago, Chaz84 said:

80k offft time to see about about a battery powered motor bike get them for 2k and if it the battery go’s flat just hang on to anther car to pull you along free fuel or electricity ⚡️ lol 😂

I recently watched the Charlie Boorman/ Ewan McGregor road trip series, 'Long Way Up' where they used special prototype electric bikes supplied by Harley Davidson. If anything will put you off electric battery powered bikes, this'll be it LOL

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Oh I don't know...people seem to want a rattle free Vignale...  They may have to stump up for a Jag instead.  Rattles will seem so much louder without any engine noise!  

I've wondered if I'll notice much difference. I can't say I notice much engine noise in the Fiesta as it is, unless you rev the nuts off it, and as I seem to have an unusually rattle free example, it's tyre/road noise that predominates.

Lots of reports in the media today quoting figures from DEFRA statistics.

Apparently wood burning stoves are the biggest source of life threatening air pollution, producing 38% of the most harmful small particles PM2.5 as against 12% from all forms of road transport. 

Presumably the owners will have to convert to a battery powered flame-effect electric fire?😃

 

 

Ford has announced today that they will only sell battery cars in UK/Europe from 2030, that's handy as that's what the government has mandated!

I have that same sinking feeling in my stomach when the UK government started promoting diesel as the fuel of the future in 2000, anyone that ever followed a bus knew this was an inherent mistake. Just as mandating 'battery' cars is now. (Battery will be the BetaMax of power until hydrogen is properly unleashed)

The only thing is, I'll be unlikely to be around to say, "I told you so..." LOL So, I'll consider this post to be my legacy 🤣

On 2/17/2021 at 1:28 PM, StephenFord said:

Ford has announced today that they will only sell battery cars in UK/Europe from 2030, that's handy as that's what the government has mandated!

Seen a bit more on this today. They are saying that by 2026 all new Ford cars for Europe will be electric or PHEV, and all fully electric by 2030. 

On 2/9/2021 at 3:37 PM, Mark-UK said:

There was and probably still are people complaining about the lack of public phone boxes.

I know it's an old post, but I just got notification of it LOL

Yes, great analogy. The thing is, that the government did not 'ban' phone boxes, people realised that newer technology was better and more convenient. In the same way that government never banned the horse as a mode of transport, people realised that cars with engines in them were better and more convenient.

If 'battery' cars are so good, why does the government have to ban the internal combustion engine as a mode of transport? If 'battery' is so good, we should all just progress to them out of our own volition...

Development cost I would imagine.

People are selfish...  House phones were more convenient for individuals.  Cars were more convenient for individuals.  When you make a suggestion that's better for the planet or for the population as a whole, but less convenient for each individual, they will need a considerable 'shove' in the right direction to make the jump. 

We all know battery cars will be more hassle than ICE cars...in the same way that reducing single use plastic packaging is more hassle.  Either the 'new' things need to be cheaper, or there needs to be a ban on the old ones.

 

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

 

We all know battery cars will be more hassle than ICE cars...

 

Tom, you're not wrong there, I look forward to seeing the hard shoulders of our motorways littered with battery cars that have run out of range waiting for the man (or woman) with a can of electric to get them going again. Amazingly, even now, with a working fuel gauge, and a flashing red warning light, 750,000 drivers/year still run out of fuel annually LOL

18 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Tom, you're not wrong there, I look forward to seeing the hard shoulders of our motorways littered with battery cars that have run out of range waiting for the man (or woman) with a can of electric to get them going again. Amazingly, even now, with a working fuel gauge, and a flashing red warning light, 750,000 drivers/year still run out of fuel annually LOL

You've said that one several times in this thread lol, and I still don't believe incompetence is a good enough reason to stop the rollout of battery cars...if anything maybe it's a sign that the driving test needs to made more difficult...  I've never run out of fuel in over a decade of driving.  Just don't see how people do it (with the exception of a gauge fault or sudden leak).  You know roughly how far you'll be driving on that journey, there's a reasonably accurate gauge on the dash, there are filling stations every few miles on motorways...and modern cars even suggest how many miles you've got left at the current rate!  If after all that people are still running out, maybe they need to be making more observations while driving.  I have to wonder what state their tyres are in, and whether they could be bothered to top up the screenwash and check and oil and coolant levels as well...

I also wonder whether the same people often find their mobile phone running out of charge halfway through the day?  Or do they have the foresight to have charged it up the night before? 

The can of electric already exists...power banks for mobile phones have been around for years which can be scaled up, and RAC vans could also easily incorporate an onboard generator with a quick-charging point to dispense enough electricity to get them to a proper charging point.

@StephenFordand @TomsFocusI find myself agreeing with both of you on most of this 😀

I do have worries that governments (not just ours) have been a bit too quick to jump on the battery electric solution, to the possible exclusion of better technologies that may (or may not) emerge in time.

On the other hand motor manufacturers must have some confidence that it is (or will rapidly become) a viable technology that will secure a future for their industry or they would (I assume) have kicked up more of a fuss. 

I do feel that a more pragmatic approach in the recent past would have bought us more time for new technologies to develop. Incentivising smaller, lighter vehicles, for example, and clobbering SUVs and the like. Even now I have difficulty in accepting that a 1.0 litre Fiesta (for instance) is a worse lifetime polluter than a 3 tonne electric SUV, yet in a few years time the former will be banned and the latter, apparently, will be ok.

But we are where we are and I am hopeful that battery technology will advance in a similar way to mobile phones and agree with Tom that user incompetence is not a reason not to go electric. (I'm sure I saw something recently about breakdown vehicles that could give an emergency charge?).

I do hope though that we keep an open mind about any better technology that comes along and in that event that it is not squeezed out by a well-entrenched battery lobby.

I think there is a bit of fear of the unknown in all this. I would like to see opportunities to experience electric cars of various types/makes in a  non-sales environment, as I think I've mentioned before somewhere on here. I believe there was something at Milton Keynes (?) but that's not a lot of use to most of us on here!

 

 

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

 I've never run out of fuel in over a decade of driving.  Just don't see how people do it (with the exception of a gauge fault or sudden leak). 

 

In 40 years, I have run out just the once, in my Mk1 XR2 whilst giving a friend a lift to the airport in 1982. Inexperience and bravado at nearly always running an empty tank! (It was the height of the troubles here and no one stopped to help out and yes, he missed his flight!).

I have carried a 'gallon' can in the boot ever since, (one of those nice Paddy Hopkirk ones with the aluminum insert so it won't explode). Maybe we should all think of carrying a spare 'powerbank' in the boot as per your suggestion just in case LOL

 

On 2/16/2021 at 1:00 PM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Yes, 2025 is looking like a bit of a tipping point, with several sources saying that electric cars will more or less achieve price parity with ICE by then.

Thought this thread had gone a bit quiet! 

Since the above post a few months back, it's looking increasingly likely that the price parity I was referring to may be achieved by ICE cars becoming a heck of a lot more expensive, rather than electrics getting cheaper (though I expect they will).

Seeing more and more references to the upcoming Euro 7 standards  in both the motoring and financial press. Several manufacturers are saying that the proposed new rules will make ICE totally unviable (certainly for smaller cars) due to the prohibitive cost of the emissions gear and packaging difficulties of fitting it in.

So buy your new petrol car (if you want one) in the next two or three years, folks!

 

11 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

So buy your new petrol car (if you want one) in the next two or three years, folks!

 

Indeed, and keep them in good condition, because I'll be likely to be after one of them in a few years after that LOL

i shall keep my dirty diesel mondeo until its ready for the scrapyard then....... so not long then ! 😂😂😂

I'm so glad similar arguments were lost a hundred or so years ago.

There's not enough petrol stations, so I'm sticking to my steam car

I can get fuel for my steam car quickly and easily from any town village or hamlet.