18 minutes ago, mjt said:

replaced with another Siemens so it'll be interesting to see how long this one lasts

very much like the old "Kwik Fit" exhaust garantee... 13 months after you bought it expect the door to fall off 🤣

26 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Now, I'd be interested in the science behind that, of using an existing 15 liters of already heated water, against (maybe if needed)) reheating a 200 liter tank back up (which very often isn't needed as you don't always have to have a full tank of hot water)

I think it has more to do with the length of pipe between the tank/combi boiler and the washing machine. With a hot feed washing machine water from the hot pipe enters the washing machine but this water is cold because it has been sitting in a pipe. By the time that the washing machine has filled with the small amount of water that it requires it wont have got (much/any) hot water because it is drawing cold water that has been sitting in a long pipe.

The washing machine will heat up the cold water that it has got from the hot pipe and the boiler will fire up to reheat the water that has entered the other end of the pipe. So you pay to heat the water twice.

2 minutes ago, pcaouolte said:

...With a hot feed washing machine water from the hot pipe enters the washing machine but this water is cold because it has been sitting in a pipe....

 

Aahhh, I see the issue. When I had a hot feed washing machine, I always ran the hot tap in the sink beside it so that when the washing machine was switched on, it immediately got a feed of hot water LOL  Maybe I'm just smarter than the average bear 🤣

14 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Aahhh, I see the issue. When I had a hot feed washing machine, I always ran the hot tap in the sink beside it so that when the washing machine was switched on, it immediately got a feed of hot water LOL  Maybe I'm just smarter than the average bear 🤣

I maybe wrong as I can't remember how it all works, but as your draw hot water from the tank, it'll be replace by cold water, so you'll need some very clever maths to work out how many degrees that cold water will reduce the temp of all the water in the tank, then workout how much energy is needed to reheat the whole tank full back to the set temp.

Does it take more energy to heat the small amount in a washing machine from say 10 degrees to 40 than to heat  the water tank from say 64 back to 65, and don't forget that cold water in your pipe you ran down the sink isn't free 😂

52 minutes ago, mjt said:

It's amusing to see the way the thread has veered onto this topic just because I mentioned "Whirlpool's deady machines".

Yes, we've done at heck of a lot of veering already, but that's not unusual for this forum! And I plead guilty to being a serial "veerer" !😀

11 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

...don't forget that cold water in your pipe you ran down the sink isn't free 😂

LOL, actually, in Northern Ireland, it's entirely 'free' as our government continuously refuses to introduce water rates! In addition, because of 'the troubles', there has been little investment in infrastructure here in the last 40 years so the primary source of heating in NI is oil fired, and the price of oil, barring a few anomalous peaks, is quite reasonable. Please don't tell 'Greta', I quite like it the way things are! 😁

9 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Yes, we've done at heck of a lot of veering already, but that's not unusual for this forum! And I plead guilty to being a serial "veerer" !😀

I like the veering, way better than a hundred posts about how to do a sync master reset  😂

Do you guys have gas?  

All electric here...basically have a 3kW kettle element trying to keep 100 litres of water at 63c...it's by far my biggest energy user!

Dropping the hot fill was done to reduce emissions (woo, back on topic) but if you have gas it may well work out more expensive.  I've never had gas...well, not in a property anyway!

Edit - can't keep up with this thread, whole other page emerged before I got round to posting lol.

52 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

Does it take more energy to heat the small amount in a washing machine from say 10 degrees to 40 than to heat  the water tank from say 64 back to 65, and don't forget that cold water in your pipe you ran down the sink isn't free 😂

 

Washing at 40?  Stop!  Switch down to 30...

Now which detergent was that advertising?

 

 

41 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

LOL, actually, in Northern Ireland, it's entirely 'free' as our government continuously refuses to introduce water rates! In addition, because of 'the troubles', there has been little investment in infrastructure here in the last 40 years so the primary source of heating in NI is oil fired, and the price of oil, barring a few anomalous peaks, is quite reasonable. Please don't tell 'Greta', I quite like it the way things are! 😁

Free water!? 😮  

In fairness, even for someone in the bathroom all day I find metered water costs to be reasonable.  It's about £30 a month.  Electricity is more than 3 times that...mostly to heat that water!!

 

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

I find metered water costs to be reasonable.  It's about £30 a month.

Crikey! Just paid our last (metered) quarterly bill - £46 and that's for 2 of us. And yes, we do wash/bathe/do our laundry regularly before you ask!😀

10 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Crikey! Just paid our last (metered) quarterly bill - £46 and that's for 2 of us. And yes, we do wash/bathe/do our laundry regularly before you ask!😀

You need to stop washing the car, my water bill is £20.21, mined you there is only me.

25 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

 

Washing at 40?  Stop!  Switch down to 30...

Now which detergent was that advertising?

 

 

Free water!? 😮  

In fairness, even for someone in the bathroom all day I find metered water costs to be reasonable.  It's about £30 a month.  Electricity is more than 3 times that...mostly to heat that water!!

 

£30 a month, that won't keep my hot tub at 37.5c alone

11 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Crikey! Just paid our last (metered) quarterly bill - £46 and that's for 2 of us. And yes, we do wash/bathe/do our laundry regularly before you ask!😀

Pretty sure my standing charge is more than that for a quarter!   I guess prices vary across the country!

55 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Pretty sure my standing charge is more than that for a quarter!   I guess prices vary across the country!

Prices probably do vary by location, but I know is often repeated but checking your with the right supplier is still important.

Around 25% have never swapped, I know it's normally only on the first swap that huge changes are made, but still worth looking.

£30 standing charge sounds very high, my combined gas and electric standing charge is £13.27 a month, now I put a postcode in from Stowmarket into my supplier (Octopus Energy) and came up £15.81

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Pretty sure my standing charge is more than that for a quarter!   I guess prices vary across the country!

Just for info, our charges are:

Standing charge:

Water £7.08 per quarter

Sewerage £2.55 per quarter

Clean water is charged at 80.68 p per cu m

Sewerage, surface drainage etc is charged at 182.7p per cu m (calculated at 95% of clean water use)

 

Interesting about the 'standing charges'.

Up until relatively recently, in NI we only had the one electricity supplier, NI Electric, but now we have 3 LOL There is no 'standing' charge at all, just a charge/KwHour, currently I pay 18.6p They all compete fiercely, and vary by the odd 0.01p/hour at different times 🤣

Roger your water looks cheap, your freshwater is less than half of mine per m³

Standing Charges
Freshwater £25.96 a year
Wastewater £5.16 a year
Rainwater removal £103.46 a year

Freshwater Usage £1.828  per m³
Wastewater Usage £1.252 per m³

 

22 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Interesting about the 'standing charges'.

Up until relatively recently, in NI we only had the one electricity supplier, NI Electric, but now we have 3 LOL There is no 'standing' charge at all, just a charge/KwHour, currently I pay 18.6p They all compete fiercely, and vary by the odd 0.01p/hour at different times 🤣

0.01p/hour   wow that's a big change,  if swap my current smart meter for a newer smart-meter they'll give me one hour free electric a month 😂

3 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

Prices probably do vary by location, but I know is often repeated but checking your with the right supplier is still important.

Around 25% have never swapped, I know it's normally only on the first swap that huge changes are made, but still worth looking.

£30 standing charge sounds very high, my combined gas and electric standing charge is £13.27 a month, now I put a postcode in from Stowmarket into my supplier (Octopus Energy) and came up £15.81

We're getting crossed paths here with electric & water.  My water bill is about £30 a month, electric about £100 a month (no gas or oil).  

Sadly I can't change the electric supplier, partly due to the landlord and partly due to the obsolete Economy 10 tariff...  I am on an 'assistance' tariff due to health conditions...which is now the same price as the standard tariff because of the energy cap.   

 

3 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Just for info, our charges are:

Standing charge:

Water £7.08 per quarter

Sewerage £2.55 per quarter

Clean water is charged at 80.68 p per cu m

Sewerage, surface drainage etc is charged at 182.7p per cu m (calculated at 95% of clean water use)

 

 

2 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

Roger your water looks cheap, your freshwater is less than half of mine per m³

Standing Charges
Freshwater £25.96 a year
Wastewater £5.16 a year
Rainwater removal £103.46 a year

Freshwater Usage £1.828  per m³
Wastewater Usage £1.252 per m³

 

How are you guys paying so little for sewerage!? 😮 

 

Metered

Fixed - £30.00

Usage - £1.6015

Sewerage services (including surface water drainage)

Fixed - £87.00**

Usage - £1.5655

 

So my quarterly standing charge is about £30.  

2 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

Roger your water looks cheap, your freshwater is less than half of mine per m³

You'll be with United Utilities, I suppose. Yorkshire Water looks cheap by comparison, pity you can't shop around for water suppliers!

Mind you, some people still think it's too dear. My ex used to prosecute debtors for YW and I remember one case where the defendant asked "why should I pay for water that the Lord sends for free?" - the judge wasn't impressed!😀

3 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

You'll be with United Utilities, I suppose. Yorkshire Water looks cheap by comparison, pity you can't shop around for water suppliers!

Mind you, some people still think it's too dear. My ex used to prosecute debtors for YW and I remember one case where the defendant asked "why should I pay for water that the Lord sends for free?" - the judge wasn't impressed!😀

I must admit, I kind of feel that way about the rainwater charges...  Why are we paying for that to go through the sewage treatment process! 😮  Can I stop paying that if I get a water butt?  

my last house the rainwater went down drains and into stream. , well thats what i told them and they stopped the charge. just a normal house in an housing estate in town.🤣🤣🤣🤣. never paid it in the 8 years i was there. 

Here's something interesting...  The electricity standing charge on my tariff is 2.5p cheaper here than it is in Yorkshire!  

22.964p here (£6.89 a month)

25.638p in Yorkshire (£7.69 a month)

 

PS - All this monthly/quarterly/yearly stuff is getting confusing for comparisons! 

1 minute ago, TomsFocus said:

I must admit, I kind of feel that way about the rainwater charges...  Why are we paying for that to go through the sewage treatment process! 😮  Can I stop paying that if I get a water butt?  

They would tell you you're not, but the surface water still ends up in public sewers which they maintain. If you can prove that your surface water doesn't go into public sewers, btw, you should be able to get a rebate.

I appreciated that there would be a disparity between suppliers because of regional variations in infrastructure, water availability, distance of transporting water/sewage, etc, etc, but not that it would vary so much.

Interesting - even though we have gone way, way off topic!😀

5 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

The electricity standing charge on my tariff is 2.5p cheaper here than it is in Yorkshire!  

It could differ because the energy supplier to whom you pay your bills, is charged by the local electricity distribution company for the use of their network to get the juice to you. These charges (which are regulated) will vary due to different costs of maintaining infrastructure.