Swearwolf Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Hi all almost finished installing full keyless entry/start on a 2007 right at the end now, i've got it all working, with the fob in car the steering lock disengages, i hear a click when pressing clutch which releases the ignition barrel, i can turn it on to accessories etc but when i turn to crank car there's nothing lol, and it comes up on dash "please engage steering lock" as if i've just turned car off. probably going to be trial and error but wondering if anyone has ideas? thanks 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 I admire your pluckiness on a challenging installation, but can't help feeling with the number of threads on here on how to disable 'keyless' operation because of security issues, you may regret it. Still, good luck in getting it to work, and don't forget to buy a Disklok to keep you car safe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW1982 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 50 minutes ago, Swearwolf said: Hi all almost finished installing full keyless entry/start on a 2007 right at the end now, i've got it all working, with the fob in car the steering lock disengages, i hear a click when pressing clutch which releases the ignition barrel, i can turn it on to accessories etc but when i turn to crank car there's nothing lol, and it comes up on dash "please engage steering lock" as if i've just turned car off. probably going to be trial and error but wondering if anyone has ideas? thanks 😄 Did you also reconfigure/reprogram the PATS immobilizer system? On the Focus MK2/C-Max MK1 with conventional ignition key the PATS immobilizer system is controlled by the instrument cluster On the Focus MK2/C-Max MK1 with keyless start the PATS immobilizer system is controlled by the KVM module. If the PATS immobilizer system is not configured/reprogrammed correctly the car will not start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 hours ago, JW1982 said: Did you also reconfigure/reprogram the PATS immobilizer system? On the Focus MK2/C-Max MK1 with conventional ignition key the PATS immobilizer system is controlled by the instrument cluster On the Focus MK2/C-Max MK1 with keyless start the PATS immobilizer system is controlled by the KVM module. If the PATS immobilizer system is not configured/reprogrammed correctly the car will not start. I did via elmconfig, change the PATS from "standard PATS" to "old style KVM" in the HEC section However the KVM now reports error "keyless module security mismatch" (or something I cant quite remember lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 4 hours ago, StephenFord said: buy a Disklok to keep you car safe... He needs the up-market keyless Disklok 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Swearwolf said: I did via elmconfig, change the PATS from "standard PATS" to "old style KVM" in the HEC section However the KVM now reports error "keyless module security mismatch" (or something I cant quite remember lol) This is just a thought but is the PATS system still in use and reading your keyfob or is that part of the system no longer used ? If you take the transponder chip out of your key and place it next to the induction aerial loop that used to be next to your old ignition barrel does the car then start ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, unofix said: This is just a thought but is the PATS system still in use and reading your keyfob or is that part of the system no longer used ? If you take the transponder chip out of your key and place it next to the induction aerial loop that used to be next to your old ignition barrel does the car then start ? hi mate nope! unfortunately not. i'm sure the pats is ok as the red light on cluster comes on solid initially then goes off - just as before, so seems to be accepting it. can hear the KVM click like a relay when i try to crank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Swearwolf said: KVM click like a relay when i try to crank Well I guess thats a good thing. Since the original system would not have been using the KVM are all the contacts actually wired ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW1982 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Since on a keyless vehicle the PATS immobilizer functionality is controlled by the KVM module the system needs to be programmed correctly. The transponder keys (keyfobs) need to be programmed into the KVM (which is already the case if the keyfobs and KVM came from the same donor vehicle). Apart from this the KVM needs to be paired/synchronised with the PCM. This procedure is called PATS initialization in the Ford diagnostic systems. If the PCM is still paired with the instrument cluster and not with the KVM module the engine will never start. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 Thanks, guys I am using forscan when I attempted what’s called “module initialisation” on the IC it says “not available on keyless vehicle, use KVM” fair enough go to do the same on KVM menu, “the PATS is not initialised please run the function from main menu” Seem to be stuck in circles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 3 hours ago, unofix said: Well I guess thats a good thing. Since the original system would not have been using the KVM are all the contacts actually wired ? Yes, the car was already wired for everything keyless luckily however I have an orange/grey and green/white wires twisted together that i do not know where they go as they’re not on any wiring diagrams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 I know this may be a daft question, but you do have the full paid for licenced version of ForScan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex.S Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 I read about retro fit this and that on here a lot. This is by far the most ambitious, are you going to retro fit stop start next ? 😉. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/29/2021 at 11:51 PM, unofix said: I know this may be a daft question, but you do have the full paid for licenced version of ForScan? I do indeed mate On 8/30/2021 at 12:09 AM, Alex.S said: I read about retro fit this and that on here a lot. This is by far the most ambitious, are you going to retro fit stop start next ? 😉. I'll try anything... just found the slot for the relay for it in the engine bay....and it's wired.... Small update Apparently need to clear all keys, program 2 new (or used lmao) keys, then do module initialisation and it should work. Well erased all keys now it wont let me program any LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Swearwolf said: Well erased all keys now it wont let me program any LOL OH B0llocks woud be my thoughts 😟 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted September 3, 2021 Author Share Posted September 3, 2021 still in trouble on this one guys, and desperate for any help that's out there as said i erased all keys. i have 2 genuine ford keyless fobs with good batteries.. everytime i go into forscan to program a key, it grants security access and says press any button on fob, so i do - the KVM clicks like a relay - then forscan says PATS key programming failed both keys, every single time.... so now i have 0 programmed keys, and ive tried for days and days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Hi George, sorry to hear of your key problem. I assume that you know that there are two diffrent actions to a key, but just encase heres some info. (a) Transponder Chip (passive) - no battery required. This is what the car reads to check key is correct and turn off the PATS immobiliser. (b) The keyfob buttons - Needs a battery to work. These buttons can be used to lock/unlock the car. I have never tried to programme a key in to the car, but I would expect it to be a two stage process. First the transpoder chip, then second the keyfob buttons. It sounds to me like you are only doing the keyfob buttons and not programming in the transpoder chip. Sorry if my thoughts are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted September 4, 2021 Author Share Posted September 4, 2021 hi unofix, thanks for the reply 🙂 small success today!! i persisted and have managed to program both keys to pats and entry strangely enough, the thing that worked was unplugging all of the interior sensors.... lord knows?? it unlocks car, steering column etc but now onto the fact it wont crank the engine again lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted September 5, 2021 Author Share Posted September 5, 2021 bump for help 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Would love to be able to help but I'm out of ideas just now. On 8/29/2021 at 3:23 PM, JW1982 said: Apart from this the KVM needs to be paired/synchronised with the PCM. This procedure is called PATS initialization in the Ford diagnostic systems. If the PCM is still paired with the instrument cluster and not with the KVM module the engine will never start. Did you ever manage to do what @JW1982said ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted September 5, 2021 Author Share Posted September 5, 2021 4 hours ago, unofix said: Would love to be able to help but I'm out of ideas just now. Did you ever manage to do what @JW1982said ? i have tried unsuccessfully 😞 i can choose the RKE module and select module initialization - it then just errors and tells me PATS is not initialized 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Maybe its beyond the scope of Forscan ? maybe @MasterTechTip could advise alternative software to try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterTechTip Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Hmmm just reading through this and it looks like you've done everything correctly, I'm wondering if @unofixis right and you need something like IDS (basically the licensed ford version of Forscan) that is actually connected to Fords security database to initialise this change 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swearwolf Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 quick update for anyone interested i've been working with the FORScan team on a fix, as it turned out to be a bug in the program, as this has never been attempted before... after 4 new test builds we were able to initialise the module successfully, which allows me to start the car but only with the emergency key inserted. with no key it's still a no crank. but watch this space... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 WELL DONE !! 👍 🎉 Most would have given up by now. Thanks to people like you taking the time to get through projects like this others will be able to do this in the future. I hope that since you are almost there now that Forscan will continue to support you and get the final bit working and allow you to finally programme the keys. Once finished be sure to tell the insurance company, as your car will have more than doubled in value with all the extra work you've done 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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