How reliable is the MK4 1.5tdi adblue engine?

[TomWood]

So i am currently thinking about upgrading to a mk4 Focus possibly the ST line and i see alot listed with the 1.0 engine and the 1.5tdi. How reliable is the 1.5tdi engine with the automatic gearbox? a few people i have spoken to have had nothing but good things to say about the 1.5tdi but not so much the 1.0.

[Gaskell71]

More reliable then the ecoboom 1.0 with or without mhev, just avoid it altogether. The 2.0 ecoblue is a wetbelt design too, so avoid that as well. 

Imo your more likely have a safe bet with the 1.5 ecoblue which uses a conventional dry timing belt, the 2.3 ecoboost in the ST and possibly the 1.5 three cylinder ecoboost, that depends I've read different reports saying it uses a wetbelt while other stat timing chain

The auto I believe is the seven speed, both that and the 8 speed have little to few issues  given Ford's attempts and disaster powershift feasco I personally would not trust them with any automatic transmission.

[TomWood]

39 minutes ago, Gaskell71 said:

More reliable then the ecoboom 1.0 with or without mhev, just avoid it altogether. The 2.0 ecoblue is a wetbelt design too, so avoid that as well. 

Imo your more likely have a safe bet with the 1.5 ecoblue which uses a conventional dry timing belt, the 2.3 ecoboost in the ST and possibly the 1.5 three cylinder ecoboost, that depends I've read different reports saying it uses a wetbelt while other stat timing chain

The auto I believe is the seven speed, both that and the 8 speed have little to few issues  given Ford's attempts and disaster powershift feasco I personally would not trust them with any automatic transmission.

Interesting thanks! 

[Tizer]

If you are looking at Petrol engines as well then the 1.5 is a better engine than the 1.0. It does have a Timing Chain but a Wet Belt drives the oil Pump.

The downside is that there not many for sale and I don't think they were available in the ST Line.

The ST Line has the best looks and probably handles better but I don't think they were as refined or well equipped as the Titanium and above, it depends on what is important to you. 

[TomWood]

1 hour ago, Tizer said:

If you are looking at Petrol engines as well then the 1.5 is a better engine than the 1.0. It does have a Timing Chain but a Wet Belt drives the Oil Pump.

The downside is that there not many for sale and I don't think they were available in the ST Line.

The ST Line has the best looks and probably handles better but I don't think they were as refined or well equipped as the Titanium and above, it depends on what is important to you. 

Nah i think i'd get the 1.5 diesel, do you mean the 1.5tdi has a wet belt or the 1.5 petrol? to be honest i haven't seen a mk4 Focus with the 1.5 petrol on AutoTrader until i remove my filters then i see a few petrol 1.5 but i think a petrol 1.5 with a automatic gearbox probably won't be the best option considering i have a 1.6 mk3 with the powershift transmission and i struggle to get above 25mpg most of the time, plus the 1.5 petrol is a ecoboost right? was told to avoid the ecoboost engines plus the 1.5 diesel even with the automatic gearbox seems to get decent MPG and i agree the ST line look really nice but i'm not too bothered about getting the ST line as i think just standard look fine.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

7 minutes ago, TomWood said:

plus the 1.5 petrol is a ecoboost right

In current Ford parlance, "Ecoboost" simply denotes a turbocharged petrol engine irrespective of size, number of cylinders, etc.

The Mk 4 Focus petrol triples (1.0 and 1.5) are of the revised design which has a chain for cam drive but does have a wet belt for oil pump drive.

 

[Tizer]

7 minutes ago, TomWood said:

Nah i think i'd get the 1.5 diesel, do you mean the 1.5tdi has a wet belt or the 1.5 petrol? to be honest i haven't seen a mk4 Focus with the 1.5 petrol on AutoTrader until i remove my filters then i see a few petrol 1.5 but i think a petrol 1.5 with a automatic gearbox probably won't be the best option considering i have a 1.6 mk3 with the powershift transmission and i struggle to get above 25mpg most of the time, plus the 1.5 petrol is a ecoboost right? was told to avoid the ecoboost engines plus the 1.5 diesel even with the automatic gearbox seems to get decent MPG and i agree the ST line look really nice but i'm not too bothered about getting the ST line. 

I don't have much knowledge about the Diesel engine, was just making the point about the Petrol engines.

I do have an old Mk4 brochure and the book consumption figures for the 1.5 Diesel Automatics are 51 to 54 mpg. that compares to 40 to 42 for the 1.0 Petrol so the Diesel seems a better bet.

[JW1982]

58 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

The Mk 4 Focus petrol triples (1.0 and 1.5) are of the revised design which has a chain for cam drive but does have a wet belt for oil pump drive.

The 3-cilinder 1.5 ECOboost (Dragon engine family) is completely different from the 2nd generation of the 3-cylinder 1.0 ECOboost (Fox engine family). The only similarity between the Dragon and the Fox engines is that they are both 3-cylinder engines and are more or less based on the same technology.
 

There is no wetbelt on the Dragon engine. There is a timing chain between the crankshaft and the camshafts and the oil pump is driven by the balance shaft which is connected to the crankshaft by sprockets.

[Tizer]

16 minutes ago, JW1982 said:

There is no wetbelt on the Dragon engine. There is a timing chain between the crankshaft and the camshafts and the oil pump is driven by the balance shaft which is connected to the crankshaft by sprockets.

I hate to disagree with you but there is, see below. The earlier  Dragon Engines had a different Balancer Shaft arrangement and maybe the oil Pump was driven directly on these, I'm not sure.

The bad news is if it does need changed then the Chain and Sprockets need to be removed, which looks like just as much work as changing a Wet Cambelt.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

2 hours ago, JW1982 said:

There is no wetbelt on the Dragon engine.

I'll be very happy indeed to be corrected on this one, though I think the OP was particularly concerned about the 1.0.

Like John, though, I have seen references to a wet oil pump drive on the 1.5 in certain markets, though careful examination of this video clip does indeed seem to indicate it is not belt driven:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pA0Pdui9Fws

 

 

[Tizer]

46 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I'll be very happy indeed to be corrected on this one, though I think the OP was particularly concerned about the 1.0.

Like John, though, I have seen references to a wet oil pump drive on the 1.5 in certain markets, though careful examination of this video clip does indeed seem to indicate it is not belt driven:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pA0Pdui9Fws

 

 

That video looks like the earlier version of the Engine for vehicles built to 14/01/19 with the Balancer Shaft in the oil Pan.

The later versions had have the Balancer Shaft in the Engine Block and the oil Pump is driven via a Wet Belt from a Sprocket that is inboard from the Timing Chain. The Blue thing is the oil Pump and the Mustard thing is the Wet Belt.

[unofix]

I have to ask. 

What is the thoughts on my Focus Ecoblue 2.0 registered March 2019.

Belt or Chain? 

[JW1982]

12 hours ago, Tizer said:

I hate to disagree with you but there is, see below. The earlier  Dragon Engines had a different Balancer Shaft arrangement and maybe the Oil Pump was driven directly on these, I'm not sure.

The bad news is if it does need changed then the Chain and Sprockets need to be removed, which looks like just as much work as changing a Wet Cambelt.

You are correct.

I was not aware that Ford changed the oil pump setup on the 1.5 ECOboost.

 

Another application of the "very expensive to replace" wetbelt. Especially since the oil pump wetbelt is installed behind the timing chain and a lot of labour is involved to replace this belt. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I'm very interested in this one as if I buy another Ford it will likely be a 1.5 and I would be much more confident if there were no wet belts in it!😀

So, if I was to buy a current Puma or Fiesta ST, for instance (assuming Ford would sell me one!), would it be "wet-belt free"? 

incidentally, I have seen write-ups on the n/a version used in the Indian Ecosport having a wet belt also, but still being referred to as a Dragon. And I wonder what version Morgan are using in their latest 3 wheeler?

[Tizer]

2 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I'm very interested in this one as if I buy another Ford it will likely be a 1.5 and I would be much more confident if there were no wet belts in it!😀

So, if I was to buy a current Puma or Fiesta ST, for instance (assuming Ford would sell me one!), would it be "wet-belt free"? 

incidentally, I have seen write-ups on the n/a version used in the Indian Ecosport having a wet belt also, but still being referred to as a Dragon. And I wonder what version Morgan are using in their latest 3 wheeler?

I don't know the answer for sure, the only information I have is for the Mk4 Focus but given that the justification for moving the Balance Shaft was to improve noise/refinement then I would be very surprised if the old system was still being built.

Both versions have slightly different oil capacities so if you found out what the capacities were I could look out the specs and that might give a clue.

On a side note about oil capacities, mine takes 5.05L after an oil and Filter change and guess what, I was charged for 6L at my service🥵.

To be fair to them, they did overfill it, I should have charged them for my time syphoning it out😁 

[JW1982]

2 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I'm very interested in this one as if I buy another Ford it will likely be a 1.5 and I would be much more confident if there were no wet belts in it!😀

So, if I was to buy a current Puma or Fiesta ST, for instance (assuming Ford would sell me one!), would it be "wet-belt free"? 

incidentally, I have seen write-ups on the n/a version used in the Indian Ecosport having a wet belt also, but still being referred to as a Dragon. And I wonder what version Morgan are using in their latest 3 wheeler?

 The 1.5 ECOboost (Dragon) oil pump drive changed from sprockets to wetbelt from the following production dates:

Focus Mk4 - from 14-01-2019 -->.
Fiesta MK8 ST - from 25-02-2019 -->
Puma MK2 ST - All production dates have a wetbelt.
Kuga MK3 - All production dates have a wetbelt.
Bronco Sport - All production dates have a wetbelt.

The naturally aspirated 1.2 and 1.5 TI-VCT (dragon) engines that are mainly used for non European markets have a wetbelt between the crankshaft and camshafts and still have the old oil pump driven by sprockets.

[iantt]

11 hours ago, unofix said:

I have to ask. 

What is the thoughts on my Focus Ecoblue 2.0 registered March 2019.

Belt or Chain? 

Wet belt. And they don't last well. 

[Wino]

2 hours ago, iantt said:

Wet belt. And they don't last well. 

Is it same for the 1.5 diesel too ?

Registered March 2019 also.

[TomWood]

Wait so the 1.0 in the mk4 no longer has the issues like the mk3? from what im getting its now a chain but the oil pump is still a belt that can snap? i have been completely avoiding the 1.0 mk4 because i thought they were prone to issues and most video reviews i watched most say they have had engine issues or the car itself isn't nice to drive with the 1.0. 

If you had to choose between the 1.0 and 1.5tdi which would you go for keeping in mind whichever engine would have to be automatic, the 1.0 from i have seen is much cheaper to buy than the other engines which also led me to believe there is issues with them especially when the same few i have been looking at online at very generous prices are still available weeks later yet whenever i bookmark a 1.5tdi they're gone within hours normally and as for driving i would probably do more short trips than long trips but still enough distance to justify a diesel so basically with my journeys i could go either way really petrol or diesel, looking at the MPG with just automatic in mind the 1.5 petrol doesn't seem great and the 1.0 with automatic seems to get around 30mpg from what i have seen.

 

Also the car will be either 2018 or 2019 but most likely a late 2018 as i like the new shape, just adding because i notice the age seems to play a part. 

[TomsFocus]

I wouldn't be buying a Ford if you're after an auto.

Don't think we've seen any oil pump belts break on the chain driven 1.0 so far...but they've only been out for a relatively short time.

The standard 125ps 1.0 isn't really torquey enough for a heavy Focus imo.  Bad enough in the Mk3 and the Mk4 is even heavier.

There are many more 1.0s about because new buyers were put off diesel on recent years.  That's the main reason there are so few diesels for sale used.  

Used buyers are also probably being put off the 1.0 because of the old engine in the Mk3.  Fuelled by dodgy videos that are unaware of the design change.

[TomWood]

45 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

I wouldn't be buying a Ford if you're after an auto.

Don't think we've seen any oil pump belts break on the chain driven 1.0 so far...but they've only been out for a relatively short time.

The standard 125ps 1.0 isn't really torquey enough for a heavy Focus imo.  Bad enough in the Mk3 and the Mk4 is even heavier.

There are many more 1.0s about because new buyers were put off diesel on recent years.  That's the main reason there are so few diesels for sale used.  

Used buyers are also probably being put off the 1.0 because of the old engine in the Mk3.  Fuelled by dodgy videos that are unaware of the design change.

I currently own a mk3 with the powershift so i get what your saying about Fords track record for automatic but apparently this new 7 speed is decent and rarely has issues reported and only issue i have seen so far reported is a delay between D and R which i'm pretty sure i seen on a FB group that Ford answered saying its a safety feature as people switch from D to R etc before the car is stopped with brakes meaning the gearbox is stopping the car instead which puts massive strain on the gearbox.

Thats what i thought to be honest the 1.0 in a car like the Focus wouldn't be great and when i saw they do a 1.0 in the ST line it made me giggle a little, my mate has a 1.0 Fiesta and his flies but then again the Focus is much bigger and heavier.

Seems that way as the 1.0 seems much cheaper than the 1.5tdi and aren't selling fast, think i'll just go with the 1.5tdi and just avoid the 1.0 as with sounds of it even if the horrors of the mk3 1.0 are now fixed it still seems like it wont be nice to drive.

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, TomWood said:

I currently own a mk3 with the powershift so i get what your saying about Fords track record for automatic but apparently this new 7 speed is decent and rarely has issues reported and only issue i have seen so far reported is a delay between D and R which i'm pretty sure i seen on a FB group that Ford answered saying its a safety feature as people switch from D to R etc before the car is stopped with brakes meaning the gearbox is stopping the car instead which puts massive strain on the gearbox.

Thats what i thought to be honest the 1.0 in a car like the Focus wouldn't be great and when i saw they do a 1.0 in the ST line it made me giggle a little, my mate has a 1.0 Fiesta and his flies but then again the Focus is much bigger and heavier.

Seems that way as the 1.0 seems much cheaper than the 1.5tdi and aren't selling fast, think i'll just go with the 1.5tdi and just avoid the 1.0 as with sounds of it even if the horrors of the mk3 1.0 are now fixed it still seems like it wont be nice to drive.

I have never owned an Automatic so I will not comment about them but I am surprised that people are only betting 30mpg with the Petrol ones, the book figures should be quite accurate so it is maybe how they are being driven.

If you still are looking at Petrol ones then there are a couple of things that you may not be aware of. Both engine have Gasoline Particulate Filters and also have Cylinder Deactivation.

The 1.0 does seem to clog up its GPF quite often and needs driven to clear it, lots of posts on this forum about it. There does not seem yo be the same problem with the 1.5.

The other thing is bad vibration when Cylinder Deactivation is active. Again lots of posts on here for the 1.0, next to none for the 1.5 and I have never had a problem with either of these two things with my 1.5.

[TomsFocus]

3 hours ago, TomWood said:

Thats what i thought to be honest the 1.0 in a car like the Focus wouldn't be great and when i saw they do a 1.0 in the ST line it made me giggle a little, my mate has a 1.0 Fiesta and his flies but then again the Focus is much bigger and heavier.

The 1.0EB is ok in the Focus with more power.  It's just that it was only available with 125ps non-MHEV in the early Mk4.  I don't think you'd be disappointed with a 155ps MHEV, though I appreciate those aren't in your budget.

Also worth noting that both 1.0EB and 1.5 TDCI get torsion beam suspension.  The 1.5 EcoBoost gets independent rear suspension like the older models at the age you're looking at.  

Not sure which auto-box the 1.5EB gets but I had a manual one briefly and liked the engine on that.  Economy wasn't great but then it isn't on the 1.5 TSI Golf either for an equivalent.